Captain Enema Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Some roasted chicken would be pretty damn good right about now to be honest. It'll be the only decent thing to come out of this RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Timmy Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1322836115' post='2859355'] Some roasted chicken would be pretty damn good right about now to be honest. It'll be the only decent thing to come out of this RP. [/quote] My roasted duck it technically superior to your roast chicken. It tastes 10 times better and your inferior chicken wouldn't stand a chance against it. Ducks are far better at flying and can even land on water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='King Timmy' timestamp='1322840343' post='2859387'] My roasted duck it technically superior to your roast chicken. It tastes 10 times better and your inferior chicken wouldn't stand a chance against it. Ducks are far better at flying and can even land on water. [/quote] Yes, but 1/3 of all duck sex is rape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Timmy Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='KaiserMelech Mikhail' timestamp='1322841793' post='2859398'] Yes, but 1/3 of all duck sex is rape. [/quote] Even more reason why his chickens don't stand a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1322834894' post='2859348'] I didn't say that you or Cochin were handwaving anything away. I'm saying that none of you would like to see the other execute a flawless defense or offense of the other. We've all seen the complaints you've made regarding Cochin's actions, and I am telling you why [u]I think [/u]he feels justified in doing it. You keep talking about how Cochin hasn't rped how he intercepted your attacks. But lets be reasonable, you have given - on multiple occasions now - all the reasons why Cochin has relatively zero chance of intercepting anything you hurl at him. Your comments about your aircraft being miles ahead of anything anyone else unaligned with you has nor the reply you gave to freakwars 'Actually IRL, [...] there likely isn't [a way to detect the Quantum]' further your case. Your utilizing this advanced knowledge, coupled with the faint implication of yours that it is CNRPs own fault[/quote] Incorrect. You're comparing apples and oranges here and distorting the facts. 1) IRL there is ways to detect the quantum its a question of distance of detection just like everything. Obviously with the Quantum line being based on concepts for the US Navy and Air Force Next Gen Tactical Aircraft programs it is highly reasonable to say that it would be designed to beat anything currently existing, just as the YF-22 and YF-23 were when they were first concieved in the late 80s. Now does this mean nothing can detect it ever? No of course not. I am simply saying it would be extremely difficult to detect and should have the detection RPed out. I'd also point out we currently live in 2011 versus 2025-2031 time period. So what currently exists is not negating that at some point a more advanced radar negates some of the stealth, just it is unreasonable to behave as if this aircraft is not stealth at all, which is what it seems Cochin is doing. Thats hardly unreasonable. 2) I have not claimed that I have any capacity to produce something greater than Cochin does either. I am saying that he agreed to guidelines where he needed to give stats, and he also made choices as far as aircraft design. To claim tech superiority of the Jd. Mk 4 without doing any sort of RP to build the thing, or to have the advantages of tails, canards, and variable wings without taking the draw back is fundamentally unfair. [quote]for not following your scaling system gives me the feeling that you are knowingly using this flaw of CNRP for your own benefit - going against the spirit of fighting the good fight against someone else. For example, when Sargun nuclear EMPd me and I attacked Maels forces in Sudan, he rped his guerillas firing at my much higher tech/quality F-23 clones with stinger MANPADS. Even though he had and extremely low envelope to engage such high speed and high stealth aircrafts, what did I do? I deliberately rped some of my pilots getting shot down due to cockiness. Was it well within my right to simply go, naw... there is no chance you can hit my aircraft? Yes. Did I use my tech to absolutely negate the attack of a less prepared or less knowledgeable RPer? No. I'm sure everyone can agree that when you and Cochin finally duke it out, no one is going to come out of this unscathed. Cochin will RP greater losses for sure, but you can't expect your aircraft's tech to simply negate his AADN like that. He's got enough microwave energy in the sky to turn any bird in a 1000 km radius into a roast chicken. [/quote] Hardly at all. The F-2 was developed for a hi-lo mix. This is standard doctrine of many air forces. US developed high F-15 low F-16, USSR hi Su-27 lo Mig-29. The F-22 is considered high the F-35 low. This is hardly something new or invented by me to serve my purposes. Further I am not talking again about negating. I am talking about balance between my aircrafts systems and his AADN. Nowhere in my post did I claim total victory in the skies. In his he did. I would suggest that you cease pretending that there is a false equivalency or even a remote equivalency between the posts. I said what I was attacking and how I was doing it. He ignored all countermeasures and declared forced damage upon my side. What he did is god moding, what I did was declare the tactics and methods I was using. If I forced him to take damage you'd have a point, but I did not. He has tried to force me to take damage. This is simple straight forward rules of RPing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 WHY ARE YOU IGNORING ME TRIYUN?! Even when I try to help people don't want to play with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 Yeah go ahead with the Artillery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1322853780' post='2859507'] Yeah go ahead with the Artillery. [/quote] HELL YEAH! If you need any 175mm shells to land 31 miles from the front lines, just say so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 2, 2011 Report Share Posted December 2, 2011 That works, but please make sure it is 31 miles into the Cochinese territory rather than 31 miles inside my territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1322868498' post='2859666'] That works, but please make sure it is 31 miles into the Cochinese territory rather than 31 miles inside my territory. [/quote] Marscurians aren't the brightest bunch, but we can use a compass. However, just to be sure, you should probably send a military adviser to make sure they're pointed the right way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 After talking with Cochin on IRC, I've started my latest counter, I still have a few more questions so I am not done, but I put up what I have. I'd like to know from those like TBM, Melech, who have said they'd like to see more explanation, not just magic zap attacks, if the increased amount of explanation into how I'm attacking and why in the post works more for them. I've tried to lay out practical effects rather than just jargon. Please let me know if this improves the quality for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavo Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) There are some things [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106797&view=findpost&p=2854840"]in this post[/url] I'd like to rectified before responding to it. [quote]The illumination achieved by the sixty aircraft well within the coverage parameters of the XL12 and XL117 radars ensured that the AADN now had sixty plum targets to be intercepted and destroyed. Interception of these sixty aircrafts would be assigned as the burden of the two Aspers from the RS03 "Battleaxes" squadron. ...The two Aspers would scream in at Mach 2 speed and would each launch their payloads of 20 AIM-R and 20 AIM-RL missiles each before making a half Immelmann turn and returning back to friendly skies.[/quote] I'd like to kindly ask how you somehow insta-locked those Vipers. While engaging in ECM does make them more vulnerable and easier to target, being able to target them so quickly is absurd, especially as these craft did not pass into Cochin airspace. [quote]The enemy Close Air Support Aircraft would also start more surprises waiting for them as one of the SOP Battalions that had already revealed its position by firing would fire two more GG10s but this time carrying one WAASM ( Wide area airborne search and destroy munitions) which loiter around in the air for 10 minutes in the combat coordinates while discharging their payload of 25 AIM-R and AIM-H Air to Air missiles which are of course guided by the AADN.[/quote] So in essence you are saying that these are large ballistic missiles which themselves hold 50 remotely-guided ATA missiles and have enough fuel reserves and the programming/hardware needed to loiter for ten minutes? This is absolutely absurd and I have to ask for sources/research/whatever on this munition. [quote]Ten of these battalions would fire 10 GG10 SRBM each at the Artillery locations and the advancing Armies of Rebel Army. Each SRBM would have one WATSM (Wide area terrestrial search and destroy munitions) each which would be armed with 4 GB4 munitions. With each of the GB4 missiles being equipped with 10 BLU-108 canisters[/quote] So that's a ballistic missile with a missile/warhead which itself contains four missiles which has ten cluster munitions which each contain four short ranged smart anti-armour missiles? Would like some more info on this as well. If I'm reading this correctly, that's 1600 anti-armour munitions total? [quote]At the commencement of the jamming attack to interior, the coastal defense groups would start their own attacks. At least 30 POSID Anti Shipping Missiles and 20 SHARM Anti Radiation Missiles each would be fired per Rebel Army warship from coastal batteries. This would also be followed by the launching of 3 GN12 ASBM each against per warship by TEL launchers scattered along the coast. At the same time other batteries in the region would also fire salvos of 25 GN12 Anti Ship Ballistic Missiles each targetting each of the Aircraft Carriers and frigates of Rebel Army located in the Arabian Sea and Red Sea region. 50 GG20 Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles armed with SOP packages carrying BKT-1 and BKT-2 Bunker Buster and Deep penetration High Explosive bombs would also be launched at the Suez Canal to ensure that Rebel Army's mediterranean forces be cut off from the Red Sea forces. Massive GG20 Conventional munitions attacks would also be launched at every port, naval base and shipyard of Rebel Army, concentrating particularly on the docks, the fuel bunkers, the armory and Command and Control buildings, with around 20 GG20s launched per target. This is apart from a concentrated attack on every known airbase, important tunnels, major railway junctions, Fuel Storage centers, Fuel processing industries from Iran to Greexe, with at least 10 GG20's launched per target of importance. [/quote] The amount of missiles in this paragraph is a godmod in and of itself. This results in the usage of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of missiles. In addition, a chunk of these missiles fall under the IG CM limit, and quite possibly violate it. Edited December 4, 2011 by Lavo_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Enema Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1322951204' post='2860989'] After talking with Cochin on IRC, I've started my latest counter, I still have a few more questions so I am not done, but I put up what I have. I'd like to know from those like TBM, Melech, who have said they'd like to see more explanation, not just magic zap attacks, if the increased amount of explanation into how I'm attacking and why in the post works more for them. I've tried to lay out practical effects rather than just jargon. Please let me know if this improves the quality for you. [/quote] Nah, the only thing I've said all along is if you go full on technoninja assassin mode be willing to to sit down and explain it to those of us who reply, "DUHHHHHHHHHHHH..." and nicely wipe the drool off our chins. You said you'd do just that in IRC, so as far as I'm concerned as long as you are willing to be patient, explain yourself, and answer questions then by all means technoyammer it up all you want. Though.. specific modes of rp ought not be required for effectiveness. Meaning.. If I'm responding intelligently, but in general terms that I understand.. that should be all that is required to adequately counter a move that is loaded with all sort of technological jargon. And if I remember correctly, I could be wrong.. but I do remember you more or less agreeing to that as well.. providing the person is being intelligent about their actions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) I would say in regards to the locking onto the vipers thing, you could probably do it at like 150 clicks from the nearest radar, but there is a decent chance the viper can detect the radar prior and send that targeting data to some sort of radar suppressing weapon system if not destroy the radar itself. Edited December 4, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentDavid Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Okay so who is winning? Or is Cochin just stopping everything y'all throw at him? Or what? I can't understand the IC thread anymore and so I have given up on it.... Someone just tell me Cochin>Triyun Cochin<Triyun Cochin=Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) It is hard to judge a winner after one set of posts. In my judgement when you fail to take much damage without really explaining the tactics or how you do it, and just cite in game tech numbers, I don't consider that winning. I personally don't think much of what Cochin has would actually work on the scale he describes (even by CN RPs loose standards). For example using a tesla remote power system (where you wireless deliver electricity across a continental empire similar to a radio broadcast) in my judgement would be extremely inefficient. When you then pair that with conversion into radar waves, which is an extremely energy intensive technology it is unlikely you can power the sheer size of a radar gird he's claiming, on top of everything else. That whole system at the core of his defense is in my judgement a quite insane god mode. Another thing he wanted to claim is having 20k + ballistic missiles. All this too me just adds up to ridiculousness in sheer scale even for CN RP, but if you claim all this sure you can stop quite a bit. How one ever could claim such things realistically to me is straining credulity. Yes Cochin is facing a huge attack, but that is not really an excuse to flaunt the sort of restraints we've placed of "use common sense" when it comes to these non IG quantified technology. Cochin would not have been in this situation had he heeded multiple warnings, and not acted paranoid towards allies. You don't get a pass on god moding by acting like a jerk and then crying when you alienate most of your friends. Edit: For the record what I mean by way out there numbers, is Cochin right now has claimed to have more SRBMs by several factors than are existent in every IRL military in the world combined. Edited December 4, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurius Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I'm willing to cede most of my former objections to keep the rp running and assume them for the first post however cochin I would like to ask you to rewrite your use of NNEMPs, ICBMs and other weapons to match the 50 CMs rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1323037771' post='2862676'] You don't get a pass on god moding by acting like a jerk and then crying when you alienate most of your friends.[/quote] How does one get a pass on god moding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaiserMelech Mikhail Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Sal Paradise' timestamp='1323038781' post='2862694'] How does one get a pass on god moding? [/quote] A hefty bribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakwars Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) [b]Triyun[/b], where are those railguns located? Because if the rear of your force is where I think it is, then you would be firing through a number of hills, and I don't think even railguns have the power needed to punch through a significant amount of rock and dirt, and then smash through modern armor. Also, could you tell me what basically all the acronyms you used when defending against my attack mean? I know NLOS, but I can't find an explanation for the others. Edited December 5, 2011 by freakwars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='freakwars' timestamp='1323046468' post='2862806'] Triyun, where are those railguns located? Because if the rear of your force is where I think it is, then you would be firing through a number of hills, and I don't think even railguns have the power needed to punch through a significant amount of rock and dirt, and then smash through modern armor. [/quote] Rail guns have approximately 300-400 kilometer range, and fire up into the stratosphere than down. Further a 2 cm tungsten slug is the effective equivalent of a 16 inch iowa battleship cannon. They aren't firing straight across, no artillery is, all is firing in an arc, that goes well above most hills. You will need to be specific with the rest. Edited December 5, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakwars Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1323046642' post='2862813'] Rail guns have approximately 300-400 kilometer range, and fire up into the stratosphere than down. Further a 2 cm tungsten slug is the effective equivalent of a 16 inch iowa battleship cannon. They aren't firing straight across, no artillery is, all is firing in an arc, that goes well above most hills. You will need to be specific with the rest. [/quote] I misunderstood your post. It sounded like they were line of sight firing from the way you worded it, plus I kind of assumed that it would have to fire straight because its a railgun. I cannot understand what any of your acronyms refer to except NLOS, MLRS and HPM. I also can't find the CRS report you refer to about the ability of HPM to get around hardening. Edited December 5, 2011 by freakwars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='KaiserMelech Mikhail' timestamp='1323044032' post='2862774'] A hefty bribe. [/quote] I think Triyun's implication is that friends can get you a pass on god-modding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1323038058' post='2862682'] I'm willing to cede most of my former objections to keep the rp running and assume them for the first post however cochin I would like to ask you to rewrite your use of NNEMPs, ICBMs and other weapons to match the 50 CMs rule. [/quote] Due to the sheer degree of closeness Cochin and Triyun are fighting in, i think it'd be stupid for him to be using ICBMs against his enemies when we can all just recognize that he's using missiles similar to [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1322421504' post='2853894'] With the declaration of war, nearly two thousand short and medium range ballistic missiles across the broad front of the UFE Cochinese border were rapidly fired across the border. [/quote] those ones. Of course, for targets that would fall outside the ranges of missiles like the ones i quoted, ie: targets that would require cochin use ICBMs, then he'd need to reduce down to IG CM levels. But that's just the lowly opinion of an uninvolved party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentDavid Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1323037771' post='2862676'] It is hard to judge a winner after one set of posts. In my judgement when you fail to take much damage without really explaining the tactics or how you do it, and just cite in game tech numbers, I don't consider that winning. I personally don't think much of what Cochin has would actually work on the scale he describes (even by CN RPs loose standards). For example using a tesla remote power system (where you wireless deliver electricity across a continental empire similar to a radio broadcast) in my judgement would be extremely inefficient. When you then pair that with conversion into radar waves, which is an extremely energy intensive technology it is unlikely you can power the sheer size of a radar gird he's claiming, on top of everything else. That whole system at the core of his defense is in my judgement a quite insane god mode. Another thing he wanted to claim is having 20k + ballistic missiles. All this too me just adds up to ridiculousness in sheer scale even for CN RP, but if you claim all this sure you can stop quite a bit. How one ever could claim such things realistically to me is straining credulity. Yes Cochin is facing a huge attack, but that is not really an excuse to flaunt the sort of restraints we've placed of "use common sense" when it comes to these non IG quantified technology. Cochin would not have been in this situation had he heeded multiple warnings, and not acted paranoid towards allies. You don't get a pass on god moding by acting like a jerk and then crying when you alienate most of your friends. Edit: For the record what I mean by way out there numbers, is Cochin right now has claimed to have more SRBMs by several factors than are existent in every IRL military in the world combined. [/quote] I'll take that as this [b]Cochin=Triyun[/b] I am staying neutral in this OOC war but most of what you said sounds reasonable, although there are a few things I would disagree with you on. But who am I to say? I am just watching and this war probably won't effect me at all. Y'all keep doing your best! Maybe Kaiser will make this more interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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