King Louis the II Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Very happy to see this. OBR is the classiest alliance in BOB. Very proud to be your friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the damned Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 This is great to see. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt OBR founded (at least in part) by ex Legion guys/gals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathAdder Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 o/ OBR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander thrawn Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I like this alot, friends and friends getting friendlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexandros o Megas Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Very happy and proud to see this Treaty !! OBR and Sparta confirm their friendship !! Also the first two in game nations feel so even closer !! o/ OBR o/ Sparta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Doc Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 o/ OBR o/ Sparta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis the II Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Alexandros and Hime have more tech together than an entire alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukapaka Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Cheers! To our friends in OBR, I'm glad we've been able to finally formalize a relationship that has been growing for years! [quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1322361997' post='2853172'] [color="#ff8c00"]Another useless treaty that means oh we might want to be friends, but we're not sure. o/ and all that[/color] [/quote] What a poor interpretation! We are friends, but we're not putting some paper guarentee that we do battle together. This means a lot, especially to Alexandros and Hime Themis, considering they could seriously damage one another, but now such a threat no longer exists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeb the Wise Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 [quote name='the damned' timestamp='1322369839' post='2853379'] This is great to see. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt OBR founded (at least in part) by ex Legion guys/gals? [/quote] That's ancient history. Lucky for you I'm thousands of years old... The original members of the OBR were from the Grey Council, however OBR had many friends in the Legion and soon they were joined by the likes of Sir Yenisey, Sir Neboe, Sir Fonzoland, and Sir SocCarolina. Sir Yenisey and Sir Neboe are considered founding members I am most certain. To celebrate our LoA, I shall don the CN forum pip of Sparta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Congrats to our allies from OBR and Sparta on their new treaty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltus Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Congrats to OBR and Sparta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marneus Calgar Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1322378456' post='2853509'] considering they could seriously damage one another, but now such a threat no longer exists! [/quote] [color="#FF8C00"]Yeah, if both Top Nations/Tiers didn't go high in peace mode for the [i]entire[/i] war. Oh, and before you say I'm in Peace Mode and part of my Alliance is, we won't be there for the entire war. [u][b]Edit[/b][/u]: I would congratulate you guys on the treaty, but these LoA's are incredibly useless.[/color] Edited November 27, 2011 by Marneus Calgar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) Great to finally see this o/ OBR [quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1322400591' post='2853687'] [color="#FF8C00"]Yeah, if both Top Nations/Tiers didn't go high in peace mode for the [i]entire[/i] war. Oh, and before you say I'm in Peace Mode and part of my Alliance is, we won't be there for the entire war. [/color] [/quote] If you truly believe that, you'll be in for a not so plesant surprise should our alliances meet in war. Edited November 27, 2011 by Enzos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itida Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Really glad to finally see this one posted! Hail to the friendship between OBR and Sparta, and may it only go forward! o/OBR o/Sparta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1322361167' post='2853148'] Is that literally your flag now Sparta [/quote] That's been our flag ever since we moved to black team, where have you been? It's not flashy or fancy, and we like that. [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1322362055' post='2853176'] Nice flag, Sparta. Look at and learn from the OBR one. Conrats though to both signatories. [/quote] Thank you, I really do like OBR's flag but I'm quite contented with our current one. Thanks for the proposition, though. [quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322363118' post='2853199'] Congratulations to both parties. Sparta, you definitely have found good friends in the Kingdom. [/quote] Thank you! We've regarded them highly for quite some time now. It's great to see our relationship formalized and gives me cause for celebration. [quote name='Marneus Calgar' timestamp='1322400591' post='2853687'] Edit: I would congratulate you guys on the treaty, but these LoA's are incredibly useless. [/quote] Then it is apparent that we disagree on the matter. I look forward to Sparta's relationship with OBR and, as far as I'm concerned, this is a solid step in a great directuon. Treaties are only worth the effort you put in to them, after all. o/ OBR - I very much look at our future with great enthusiasm and high hopes! Edited November 27, 2011 by Wilhelm the Demented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Congratulations OBR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Spectre Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I am very happy to see such a friendship between Sparta and the Order of the Black Rose. Though we didn't need paper to prove our friendship is real... it's still nice to see. o/ Hime o/ Kirke o/ OBR o/ Sparta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Malone Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='Hime Themis' timestamp='1322361917' post='2853169'] Closer to a PIAT with benefits. [/quote] That sounds pretty worthless. [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1322362726' post='2853189'] Alliances can't sign treaties for the purpose of friendship? [/quote] They can totally do that. It's just foolish and a waste of time. Looking at this Treaty of Amity (I'm sorry, I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations), all of the tenants outlined, articles one through twelve, are things that any alliance would do just because they're friendly with someone else. Why does it need to be codified? If you truly are friendly, then everything that was agreed upon in this treaty would be done anyways. The benefit of an actual treaty that matters isn't letting the other entity know that you have their back. They should know that already. The benefit comes in letting the world know that you have your friend's back. That way, when nations are plotting and conspiring and being regular Snidely Whiplash'es, they can look and see "Oh, better not attack X because Y is going to most certainly back them up." All I see from this treaty is "We agree to be friendly in general," which both parties already know and has zero effect on the world at large because it doesn't promise or require any kind of involvement at all. Just continued courteous behavior and the presumption that maybe if the cards are right one alliance will defend the other. Not every treaty has to guarantee involvement, I know. Just don't expect me to care about those that don't. The treaty was a waste of my time reading it, although it did give me something to be good and angry about for an hour or so. That was nice. So, cool? OBR throws around words like honor and respect in their announcements on Bob. I've been following this trend for a long time. This tells me that they are just content to sit on their perceived Shining City on a Hill and pass judgement on all of us sinners sitting down in the depths with our "no u!"'s and inter-alliance warfare and shady dealings. I do not appreciate being judged and I do not like your "Holier Than Thou" attitude. Do I enjoy respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? Absolutely. Do I participate in respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? As a general rule that I sometimes break, yes. Do I feel the need to brag about it every time my name appears on a treaty? Nope. So you can take your judgment somewhere else. I'm just fine living down here with the sinners. This 'treaty' gets no hails from me. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhelm the Demented Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bones Malone' timestamp='1322450592' post='2854185'] That sounds pretty worthless. They can totally do that. It's just foolish and a waste of time. Looking at this Treaty of Amity (I'm sorry, I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations), all of the tenants outlined, articles one through twelve, are things that any alliance would do just because they're friendly with someone else. Why does it need to be codified? If you truly are friendly, then everything that was agreed upon in this treaty would be done anyways. The benefit of an actual treaty that matters isn't letting the other entity know that you have their back. They should know that already. The benefit comes in letting the world know that you have your friend's back. That way, when nations are plotting and conspiring and being regular Snidely Whiplash'es, they can look and see "Oh, better not attack X because Y is going to most certainly back them up." All I see from this treaty is "We agree to be friendly in general," which both parties already know and has zero effect on the world at large because it doesn't promise or require any kind of involvement at all. Just continued courteous behavior and the presumption that maybe if the cards are right one alliance will defend the other. Not every treaty has to guarantee involvement, I know. Just don't expect me to care about those that don't. The treaty was a waste of my time reading it, although it did give me something to be good and angry about for an hour or so. That was nice. So, cool? OBR throws around words like honor and respect in their announcements on Bob. I've been following this trend for a long time. This tells me that they are just content to sit on their perceived Shining City on a Hill and pass judgement on all of us sinners sitting down in the depths with our "no u!"'s and inter-alliance warfare and shady dealings. I do not appreciate being judged and I do not like your "Holier Than Thou" attitude. Do I enjoy respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? Absolutely. Do I participate in respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? As a general rule that I sometimes break, yes. Do I feel the need to brag about it every time my name appears on a treaty? Nope. So you can take your judgment somewhere else. I'm just fine living down here with the sinners. This 'treaty' gets no hails from me. Enjoy. [/quote] Let's put it this way, we both felt the need to formalize our intentions and relationship because it's important to us as two, individual alliances to recognize those factors and elements publicly and officially. It's important to us to recognize a mutual friendship, especially in a world and time where such sentiments are easily established by MDPs and just as easily abandoned when deemed unsavory. Edited November 28, 2011 by Wilhelm the Demented Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hime Themis Posted November 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Bones Malone' timestamp='1322450592' post='2854185'] That sounds pretty worthless. They can totally do that. It's just foolish and a waste of time. Looking at this Treaty of Amity (I'm sorry, I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations), all of the tenants outlined, articles one through twelve, are things that any alliance would do just because they're friendly with someone else. Why does it need to be codified? If you truly are friendly, then everything that was agreed upon in this treaty would be done anyways. The benefit of an actual treaty that matters isn't letting the other entity know that you have their back. They should know that already. The benefit comes in letting the world know that you have your friend's back. That way, when nations are plotting and conspiring and being regular Snidely Whiplash'es, they can look and see "Oh, better not attack X because Y is going to most certainly back them up." All I see from this treaty is "We agree to be friendly in general," which both parties already know and has zero effect on the world at large because it doesn't promise or require any kind of involvement at all. Just continued courteous behavior and the presumption that maybe if the cards are right one alliance will defend the other. Not every treaty has to guarantee involvement, I know. Just don't expect me to care about those that don't. The treaty was a waste of my time reading it, although it did give me something to be good and angry about for an hour or so. That was nice. So, cool? OBR throws around words like honor and respect in their announcements on Bob. I've been following this trend for a long time. This tells me that they are just content to sit on their perceived Shining City on a Hill and pass judgement on all of us sinners sitting down in the depths with our "no u!"'s and inter-alliance warfare and shady dealings. I do not appreciate being judged and I do not like your "Holier Than Thou" attitude. Do I enjoy respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? Absolutely. Do I participate in respectful interactions with other alliances and nations? As a general rule that I sometimes break, yes. Do I feel the need to brag about it every time my name appears on a treaty? Nope. So you can take your judgment somewhere else. I'm just fine living down here with the sinners. This 'treaty' gets no hails from me. Enjoy. [/quote] Good Bones Malone I shall try to contain my disappointment at your lack of a hail. I would ask you to note the number of hails I have ever expressed including for our own posts. That number would be zero. We felt it was fair and honest to let all know those alliance we feel close to it prevents misunderstandings and actions that might cause unexpected harm. It is the primary purpose on Digiterra of posting such treaties.. Please note the total number of treaties we have ever signed is 10 in over 6 years , your alliance has signed 9 in 8 months. I am sure you are justly proud of your treaties as you have posted them, we are equally proud of ours. You claim we use the word honour.We have fought wars based on the principles of defending a friend , we do not support aggressive wars.I am pleased to see that you adhere to the principles outlined however not all do and their restatement is to be clear what we do stand for.If all you see is a we are friendly then I am sorry you do not understand. There is a reason our top treaty is an ODP. Because that is all that in our opinion should ever be required. We have watched MDAPs vanish into thin air at the whiff of trouble our word is our bond. That is why we have stated BEFORE each war we have fought how we shall conduct ourselves in that war and what we shall accept for peace.(Nothing but an end to hostility against our friend) This is not judgement of others it is what we believe in. Let me quote a movie that describes our use. We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. I would ask why you sign treaties and post your own treaties if ( I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations).We do which is why we sign so few. What pray tell is the purpose then of Deinos signing any? If you choose to disregard our posts that is certainly your prerogative, I post our treaties in all our embassies and some feel the need to disparage them this does not relieve my duty to inform. I appreciate your argument but do not happen to agree. So if I may quote another favorite movie. [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/"][i][color="#136cb2"]Judge Chamberlain Haller[/color][/i][/url]: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. [i][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/"][color="#136cb2"]Vinny Gambini[/color][/url][/i]: Thank you, sir. [i][url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001304/"][color="#136cb2"]Judge Chamberlain Haller[/color][/url][/i]: Overruled. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis Edited November 28, 2011 by Hime Themis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Congrats to ya both. Also, lol, I love your posts sometimes Hime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Malone Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 [quote name='Hime Themis' timestamp='1322453776' post='2854235'] Good Bones Malone I shall try to contain my disappointment at your lack of a hail. I would ask you to note the number of hails I have ever expressed including for our own posts. That number would be zero. We felt it was fair and honest to let all know those alliance we feel close to it prevents misunderstandings and actions that might cause unexpected harm. It is the primary purpose on Digiterra of posting such treaties.. Please note the total number of treaties we have ever signed is 10 in over 6 years , your alliance has signed 9 in 8 months. I am sure you are justly proud of your treaties as you have posted them, we are equally proud of ours. [/quote] Firstly, thank you for your thought out and level headed reply. Secondly, whilst I feel congratulations are in order for the OBR for being on Planet Bob for so long, some of us have not had that luxury. Deinos is a young alliance. You point out that we have had nine treaties in eight months. This is somewhat true and all the way misunderstood. Deinos is the result of a merger between two sovereign alliances, Gondor and The Lost World. When we decided to merge we decided to bring some treaties with us. Those were [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=87494"]the Farosaurus Treaty[/url], [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=92427"]The 'Not As Extinct As You Thought' Accords[/url] (both of these from tLW), the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=89632"]Five For Fighting[/url] treaty, and [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93773"]Literally The Nerdiest Treaty Ever[/url] (from Gondor). In addition, many of those same treaties that you list as part of the nine are indeed protectorate agreements where we have said that we will defend an alliance so it has time to grow. Some of those are also protectorate agreements where we watch over our allies' alliance affiliation after they have disbanded (by the by, not having Ronin around makes me sad). So while it seems as though we have had nine treaties in eight months, many of those treaties are from long ago (which may seem silly to say, since you guys have been around for six years and all) and several others were protectorate agreements. In fact, the only treaties signed by Deinos in the past eight months have been our three protectorate agreements, an upgraded [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102304"]Literally The Nerdiest Treaty Ever (Redux)[/url], and our happy new treaty with Umbrella, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106585&st=0&p=2842998&#entry2842998"]Batman's Treaty[/url]. Actually, I feel like you should be happy about some of our protectorate agreements. We did that because we felt it was the honorable thing to do (especially in relation to Ronin). We just didn't post about how honorable we thought we were being. I'm sure all of this about Deinos' treaties was just a misunderstanding and not a rush to make me look bad. Trust me, I can make myself look bad pretty well. I have a lot of practice. Once again, congratulations on your ten treaties in six years. [quote name='Hime Themis' timestamp='1322453776' post='2854235'] You claim we use the word honour.We have fought wars based on the principles of defending a friend , we do not support aggressive wars.I am pleased to see that you adhere to the principles outlined however not all do and their restatement is to be clear what we do stand for.If all you see is a we are friendly then I am sorry you do not understand. There is a reason our top treaty is an ODP. Because that is all that in our opinion should ever be required. We have watched MDAPs vanish into thin air at the whiff of trouble our word is our bond. That is why we have stated BEFORE each war we gave fought how we shall conduct ourselves in that war and what we shall accept for peace.(Nothing but and end to hostility against our friend) This is not judgement of others it is what we believe in. Let me quote a movie that describes our use. We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something.[/quote] Those all seem like pretty honorable actions and good reasons behind them. My complaint wasn't that the Order of the Black Rose isn't honorable. From what I've seen, the OBR acts in accordance to what it preaches. My complaint is that posting "look at how honorable we are" in your announcements makes it seem that you are looking down your noses at the rest of us. Now, I don't presume to speak for this fabled 'rest of us.' I only speak for me and my perceptions. The way talks of 'honor' strike me, especially around Planet Bob, is a lot like [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCDZMWVWuc"]this (Not safe for work language, cover your virgin ears)[/url]. Whilst that may not be the intent or the reality, I don't think I can be faulted for perceiving things that way. I would also like to point out that I tend to distrust 'honorable' people. I don't know if there's any real reason for it, a relic from [url="http://www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/julius_caesar/10/"]Marc Antony[/url] perhaps? [quote name='Hime Themis' timestamp='1322453776' post='2854235'] I would ask why you sign treaties and post your own treaties if (I don't recognize 'letters' as binding agreements between organizations).We do which is why we sign so few. What pray tell is the purpose then of Deinos signing any?[/quote] That part of my original thoughts was less about the relevance of your treaty and more of an admonishment of the language chosen to title the treaty. I like traditions, they're comforting. This is why it will always be a "Treaty of Amity" and not a "Letter of Amity." Sorry for the misunderstanding and I hope that cleared up my comments about 'letters'. More to the point however, we sign treaties just like everyone else signs treaties: to show friendship and let everyone know that if any harm should befall our friends, we will be there to make sure it sorts out right through military, political, or economic means. Well, at least that is why I sign treaties. Sadly, I do no such thing anymore. Retirement takes a lot out of you. The difference between our treaties and your 'letters' is that ours guarantee our response and support. This may be seen as a bad thing, but that is why Deinos is very careful with our treaties and only signs them with our friends. Why do we post the treaties? I see mutual defense treaties mostly as a deterrent for friends against foreign aggression. In other words, the treaty has to be posted in order for the deterrent to work. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mUCLHzWiJo"]Dr. Strangelove[/url] discusses this idea of deterrence rather well. [quote name='Hime Themis' timestamp='1322453776' post='2854235'] I appreciate your argument but do not happen to agree. So if I may quote another favorite movie. Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir. Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled. Respectfully Dame Hime Themis[/quote] And I appreciate your retort but do not happen to agree. Decorously, Bones Malone If I may quote a favorite movie of my own: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvVorYh_mng"]Let's play some ball[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I love it when everybody gets all formal on the OWF when OBR is around. It's it's always a fun read. I have had a lot of respect for OBR for a very long time, and I'm glad we can put our friendship on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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