Legion and the ethics of loyalty

[Aeros]

Thread title say's it all. This is in response to this train wreck of a thread.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106883

Now, I normally don't do a call out thread on the actions of other Alliances. Frankly I think its pointless. I also detest moral !@#$%^ry in all its forms. But there if there is one thing I will respond to, its loyalty. Yes, Smurf did a dumb thing. Yes, I probably disagree with him on just about everything. Do I have an axe to grind with the Legion? Not really. I don't know them well enough to make an opinion on the matter. The one thing I do know however, is that Smurf (for all his flaws) was a patriotic Legionnaire. In fact, that is probably the only thing that is not in question due to the abnormally huge amounts of pro-legion Spam he has made over the past few weeks.

And how is that loyalty repaid? Why, by not only kicking him from the AA, but also linking his nation in the thread and declaring him open for Tech Raids. Which makes me wonder something. If this action was done because Smurf somehow damaged Legions reputation, then does this not mean the person who decided this would be a good idea should also be kicked from the AA and declared open for Tech Raids? After all, the response IMO has been much more damaging to Legion then anything Smurf has ever said or done. Its one thing to tell someone they are no longer welcome because they can't keep their mouth shut. Its quite another to throw them under the bus in such a public manner.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Aeros

[Mogar]

poor idea for a poll, majority opinion has always been against legion.

[Locke]

Loaded question aside, it was merely a statement of fact. He was no longer a member of Legion by his own resignation, and thus was under the protection of no one. His actions sought to damage the Legion, so the Legion owes no respect to him. There is no particular reason why they should not want him attacked. If they did not need to save their strength for a possible war, they would probably do so themselves.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1322335627' post='2852759']
[...] majority opinion has always been against legion.
[/quote]

Indeed. However, they did gain the respect of many during and following their war with Tetris and company.

It appears that may have simply been a fluke.

[Omniscient1]

Unknown Smurf is a friend of mine. He makes awful posts a lot, but I don't mind. Legion on the other hand is pretty pathetic. Hopefully, Smurf will come home.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322345628' post='2852903']
Unknown Smurf is a friend of mine. He makes awful posts a lot, but I don't mind.
[/quote]
Of course [i]you[/i] don't.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1322349507' post='2852959']
Of course [i]you[/i] don't.
[/quote]

I can't wait for the day I roll you.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Omniscient1

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322351113' post='2852989']
I can't wait for the day I roll you.
[/quote]
Only if you send me more free tech afterward.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1322351241' post='2852991']
Only if you send me more free tech afterward.
[/quote]

I would never do that.

[ooc]I can't anymore[/ooc]

[Melancholy Culkin]

I found it amusing how quickly Legion gov tripped over themselves to distance themselves from an annoying yet harmless topic. Keep on truckin' buds!

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Melancholy Culkin' timestamp='1322354127' post='2853036']
I found it amusing how quickly Legion gov tripped over themselves to distance themselves from an annoying yet harmless topic. Keep on truckin' buds!
[/quote]

I have to agree with a member of Deinos? I'm interested to see if they follow the same pattern for the other nations that posted and shredded the PR capital legion had.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1322357256' post='2853075']
I have to agree with a member of Deinos? I'm interested to see if they follow the same pattern for the other nations that posted and shredded the PR capital legion had.
[/quote]
The problem is that if they did that, they'd apparently wind up gutting their government.

[Letum]

He was not kicked out of the AA, but yes, it was horribly crass.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1322379619' post='2853526']
He was not kicked out of the AA, but yes, it was horribly crass.
[/quote]

Except I was.

[Locke]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1322380394' post='2853538']
Except I was.
[/quote]
You resigned, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106883&view=findpost&p=2852328"]by your own admission[/url].

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1322383899' post='2853575']
You resigned, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106883&view=findpost&p=2852328"]by your own admission[/url].
[/quote]


Forced resignations can happen.

[Melancholy Culkin]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1322357256' post='2853075']
I have to agree with a member of Deinos? I'm interested to see if they follow the same pattern for the other nations that posted and shredded the PR capital legion had.
[/quote]

We're not so bad once you get to know us :>

[Lincongrad]

I like Smurf, and he screwed up.

I like Regent Pancras, and he screwed up.

Both of them know that this was the case.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Lincongrad

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Lincongrad' timestamp='1322452492' post='2854219']
I like Smurf, and he screwed up.

I like Regent Pancras, and he screwed up.

Both of them know that this was the case.
[/quote]
Since you know that's the case, I hope you guys can pull it together and make right on those mistakes.

[Lincongrad]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1322452915' post='2854225']
Since you know that's the case, I hope you guys can pull it together and make right on those mistakes.
[/quote]

Not sure what can be done besides just leaving it alone. Regent Pancras thought about posting a retraction or something, but decided that the damage had been done.

I don't know what it is.... Legion members just seem to have a 'special' relationship with the Big Boards. We're very aware of this internally.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Lincongrad

[TehChron]

[quote name='Lincongrad' timestamp='1322453760' post='2854234']
Not sure what can be done besides just leaving it alone. Regent Pancras thought about posting a retraction or something, but decided that the damage had been done.

I don't know what it is.... Legion members just seem to have a 'special' relationship with the Big Boards. We're very aware of this internally.
[/quote]
Oh please. Scapegoating is what got you all into this embarrassing position in the first place.

You already know it wasn't just Regent who overreacted. Also Im taking particular note of the fact that you didnt imply that a straight up apology was on the table.

[Confusion]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1322456322' post='2854257']
Oh please. Scapegoating is what got you all into this embarrassing position in the first place.

You already know it wasn't just Regent who overreacted. Also Im taking particular note of the fact that you didnt imply that a straight up apology was on the table.
[/quote]

You seem mad. Why are you mad, doe?

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

I had gained a modicum of tolerance for Legion because of their standing up for themselves in the recent past. Seeing them reverting to norm by throwing their member under the bus like this and urging raiders to attack him after he resigned, is comforting to me.

Now i don't have to work at re-adjusting my perception of Legion. They are the same as they ever were. Scared and jumpy, tripping over themselves to appease, appease, appease. Feckless and bumbling around.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Alfred von Tirpitz

[DanDesade]

there seems to be some misunderstanding in that this was a reaction to a single thread. that is not the case. as many will have already noted smurf was and perhaps still will be very active here on the bb's. after a number of his posts/threads we'd decided to speek to him about his intentions and the ramifications of what he wrote given that the posts/threads could be interpreted as an alliance wide state of mind. on every occasion he had indicated that he would bear in mind what we had said prior to any more activity here. however, while his intentions may have been pure, that which we had discussed must not have been aparent enough to resound in his arguments and observations. after some time, though he had been loyal on the field of battle, the disloyalty by not observing our disussions and the implied meaning, be those clearly expressed or sujestive, began to give us cause for concern. the thread in question was the final stroke delievered by himself and his removal from foreign affairs and consequent resignation from the alliance was the result.

personally, aside from the OWF drama he created or added to for us, i had little reason to dislike him on an individual level. on the alliance level that like could not be translated into a continued part of our alliance.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Confusion' timestamp='1322456460' post='2854258']
You seem mad. Why are you mad, doe?
[/quote]
Because throwing loyal members under the bus for a joke thread is a practice that honestly kind of disgusts me.

[quote]there seems to be some misunderstanding in that this was a reaction to a single thread. that is not the case. as many will have already noted smurf was and perhaps still will be very active here on the bb's. after a number of his posts/threads we'd decided to speek to him about his intentions and the ramifications of what he wrote given that the posts/threads could be interpreted as an alliance wide state of mind. on every occasion he had indicated that he would bear in mind what we had said prior to any more activity here. however, while his intentions may have been pure, that which we had discussed must not have been aparent enough to resound in his arguments and observations. after some time, though he had been loyal on the field of battle, the disloyalty by not observing our disussions and the implied meaning, be those clearly expressed or sujestive, began to give us cause for concern. the thread in question was the final stroke delievered by himself and his removal from foreign affairs and consequent resignation from the alliance was the result.

personally, aside from the OWF drama he created or added to for us, i had little reason to dislike him on an individual level. on the alliance level that like could not be translated into a continued part of our alliance.[/quote]

So where is the notice for raiders to hit Kzoppistan, Alexander Proconsul, Regent whatever, and numerous others that did a far better job of wrecking whatever good will you were trying to accumulate during the past war than how Smurf was posting?

Honestly, you all need to get your perspectives fixed.