A new Declaration from The Order of the Paradox

[Banksy]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1322342836' post='2852864']
Comrade, where I am going I have been before, it holds no mystery and certainly no fear. It will take a long long time to get there though won't it. I don't treat my nation like a shrine, I have so much less to lose than those who waste so much effort surrounding their pixels with more pixels, and lose they will.

Die
[/quote]
Show those ADHD kiddies your scars.

[Rabid CareBear]

God, do I want in on this...

Happy hunting TOP, go get'em.

[LordBucks]

[quote name='delgursh' timestamp='1322333882' post='2852720']
The balls they lacked when they helped coordinate a pre-emptive strike like Bob had never seen before?
[/quote]

No, they had those then. But I'm afraid C&G castrated them, now they hide between the couch pillows every so often.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='LordBucks' timestamp='1322351481' post='2852995']
No, they had those then. But I'm afraid C&G castrated them, now they hide between the couch pillows every so often.
[/quote]
Hey brother, you're always free to come and check. Get that ball rolling, several of your allies are directly tied to Polaris after all.

[LordBucks]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322351832' post='2852999']
Hey brother, you're always free to come and check. Get that ball rolling, several of your allies are directly tied to Polaris after all.
[/quote]

I of course shall puppet master Xiph into puppet mastering us into that skirmish.

Edited November 27, 2011 by LordBucks

[nippy]

But guys! The GRL is a definite population booster!

[Caliph]

[quote name='Vandal' timestamp='1322328159' post='2852625']
What should be stressed here is Polar's lack of ability to be trusted along with their poor record of how they treated their allies just doesn't stem from the Bi-Polar war. Hell, it even extends past the days of BLEU. Polar was a !@#$% alliance run by !@#$%bags 5 years ago. Their high and mighty, full of themselves mentality has finally caught up with them once people figured out what they were all about. The difference between ES and the leaders that followed was ES had a great talent for being able to insult you and have you believe he just gave you a compliment. Everyone followed that cult of personality. Anyone that saw through it were invariably trounced and it wotked. NpO was a great and successful alliance because of it.

However, ES was right when he stated to the alliance that HE was NpO. Without him at the helm, the alliance had a leader with the same arrogance that was eventually its downfall because face it, Grub is no ES. When MCXA left BLEU, Polar called them fair weather friends and traitors. No. It's just back then MCXA knew what you guys were well before anyone else and did what was right. Polar did a great job at playing the victim. Now? Your plays at it again will no longer be viewed as nothing more than the desperation it is.

Reap it Polar..
[/quote]
Mostly correct, except the bit about MCXA. They were fair weather friends, both to my old alliance whom they left to die on the battle field of the UjW and then they betrayed Polaris in No CB, and even attacked them IIRC in that war. MCXA are fair weathered friends, and Polaris was right to call them that.

MCXA didn't just leave BLEU, they left BLEU for One Vision. And declared war on Polar without even waiting for the expiration clause to expire on their treaty. It doesn't get much more fair weathered than that. Its not quite as bad as what Polar did to TOP, but its up there.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Silent Spectre' timestamp='1322315230' post='2852402']
Wow.... really? You couldn't find a real CB other than "you hurt our feelings two years ago"? TOP, I love you guys, but I expected more.
[/quote]
People will never be happy with a CB regardless of what it is. Years ago people were always "spying" on another. Or a raid gone wrong. Then people said "enough is enough if you don't like them just say that when you declare on them".

So they tried that and people still whine about it.

No matter the CB, people like you will never be satisfied unless its your alliance or allies doing the declaring. Like or dislike the action based on the action, not the people doing it.

[Venizelos]

i cant believe you guys are using this as a reason. indirctly you are saying you were right back then... so you are saying to your current friends, we were right to hit you back then. this is screwed up/

[ROMMELHSQ]

[quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1322359278' post='2853125']
i cant believe you guys are using this as a reason. indirctly you are saying you were right back then... so you are saying to your current friends, we were right to hit you back then. this is screwed up/
[/quote]
But if we didn't attack them then, we wouldn't have become their friends...so we were right to hit them and win their friendship?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1322359278' post='2853125']
i cant believe you guys are using this as a reason. indirctly you are saying you were right back then... so you are saying to your current friends, we were right to hit you back then. this is screwed up/
[/quote]

It's doubtful that MK and TOP would have become allies if not for our decisions in that war. And they long ago stated that our strategic thinking was sound, and that it may have had a major impact had we not been stabbed in the back.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322361252' post='2853151']
It's doubtful that MK and TOP would have become allies if not for our decisions in that war. And they long ago stated that our strategic thinking was sound, and that it may have had a major impact had we not been stabbed in the back.
[/quote]
So you would have preferred that NpO would have stabbed MK in the back? None of this makes sense. You are upset that you were stabbed in the back but you are perfectly fine if someone else (MK) would have been stabbed in the back.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Jaiar

[Bodvar Jarl]

[quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1322359278' post='2853125']
i cant believe you guys are using this as a reason. indirctly you are saying you were right back then... so you are saying to your current friends, we were right to hit you back then. this is screwed up/
[/quote]

The reasons for delivering justice to Polaris and the reasons for our choice of tactics in said conflict are unrelated.

Paradoxia and IRON along with others opted for a course of action which has been debated to death. While said offensive did take place in the same conflict as the betrayal, it had nothing to do with the betrayal itself.

What Polaris did was to negotiate peace for themselves, while allowing our plans to enter the fray to proceed without informing us of this fact, which would have called off the entire thing, why fight for a reason no longer existing? Then later twisting their blade around between our ribs by waging war on us, defending MK against the very same strike that they sanctioned.

When you play a game of backstabbing you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

Polaris did not win.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1322362140' post='2853180']
So you would have preferred that NpO would have stabbed MK in the back? None of this makes sense. You are upset that you were stabbed in the back but you are perfectly fine if someone else (MK) would have been stabbed in the back.
[/quote]
Wow dude, you're really having trouble following this.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1322362345' post='2853182']
When you play a game of backstabbing you win or you die. There is no middle ground.
[/quote]

Can't we all just get along!?

(Sorry, I had to )

[The Big Bad]

Ah the old You made us look like idiots two years ago CB. Nice to see people are not even bothering trying anymore.
TOP attacked MK, got beat, payed them and then has spent the last two years on their knees for them because an alliance they had no ties to tricked them into an act of massive stupidty. And we have had to hear them cry about it for two years before they bothered to do anything about it. I can only hope this will shut them the hell up. Still when we have a war based on TOP being made fools of two years ago things have truly gotten bad on Planet Bob.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1322363001' post='2853197']
Ah the old You made us look like idiots two years ago CB. Nice to see people are not even bothering trying anymore.
TOP attacked MK, got beat, payed them and then has spent the last two years on their knees for them because an alliance they had no ties to tricked them into an act of massive stupidty. And we have had to hear them cry about it for two years before they bothered to do anything about it. I can only hope this will shut them the hell up. Still when we have a war based on TOP being made fools of two years ago things have truly gotten bad on Planet Bob.
[/quote]
Yeah, it would have been far better if they made up some spurious !@#$%^&* about Polar being nazis, like people would in the golden age of CBs...

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1322363246' post='2853202']
Yeah, it would have been far better if they made up some spurious !@#$%^&* about Polar being nazis, like people would in the golden age of CBs...
[/quote]
Hey, at least the CB was still recent! Because Johan forbids some people actually use their memory.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[Rhizoctonia]

[quote name='Bodvar Jarl' timestamp='1322362345' post='2853182']
The reasons for delivering justice to Polaris and the reasons for our choice of tactics in said conflict are unrelated.

Paradoxia and IRON along with others opted for a course of action which has been debated to death. While said offensive did take place in the same conflict as the betrayal, it had nothing to do with the betrayal itself.

What Polaris did was to negotiate peace for themselves, while allowing our plans to enter the fray to proceed without informing us of this fact, which would have called off the entire thing, why fight for a reason no longer existing? Then later twisting their blade around between our ribs by waging war on us, defending MK against the very same strike that they sanctioned.

When you play a game of backstabbing you win or you die. There is no middle ground.

Polaris did not win.
[/quote]

Well put sir

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322363337' post='2853203']
Hey, at least the CB was still recent! Because Johan forbids some people actually use their memory.
[/quote]
The CB is legit. You guys feel wronged and are taking action against NpO. That is fine.

The issue for me is that you are upset with NpO for stabbing you guys in the back. But, you guys were perfectly okay with going to NpO and asking them to stab the Mushroom Kingdom in the back by not honoring the MDoAP MK and NpO had at the time. It's okay to back stab as long as the knife goes into a back that is not TOP.

[BloodFury]

I see the true story now. Rebel Virginia engaged NpO in a combative Staring Contest to distract them so TOP and IRON could sucker punch them. Ohh you guys.

[Bodvar Jarl]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1322363849' post='2853210']
The CB is legit. You guys feel wronged and are taking action against NpO. That is fine.

The issue for me is that you are upset with NpO for stabbing you guys in the back. But, you guys were perfectly okay with going to NpO and asking them to stab the Mushroom Kingdom in the back by not honoring the MDoAP MK and NpO had at the time. It's okay to back stab as long as the knife goes into a back that is not TOP.
[/quote]

Alternatively Polaris stabbing MK in the back by sanctioning such an act, hmm?

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1322363849' post='2853210']
The CB is legit. You guys feel wronged and are taking action against NpO. That is fine.

The issue for me is that you are upset with NpO for stabbing you guys in the back. But, you guys were perfectly okay with going to NpO and asking them to stab the Mushroom Kingdom in the back by not honoring the MDoAP MK and NpO had at the time. It's okay to back stab as long as the knife goes into a back that is not TOP.
[/quote]
People often don't honor all of their treaties to the letter when they find themselves on opposite ends of coalitions. A "lone" treaty will often be put on the ice and not honored because it would be stupid to do so and start fighting on both sides of a war. That was going to be the case of Polaris. If we had let the war escalate through normal means, there is no way MK and Polaris would have ever fought on the same side or their treaty been activated.

There is also the pesky little fact that we simply didn't go out and attacked MK. We asked Polaris if they had any objection to the move before doing it. They said they didn't and in fact approved and supported the strike.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1322363849' post='2853210']
The CB is legit. You guys feel wronged and are taking action against NpO. That is fine.

The issue for me is that you are upset with NpO for stabbing you guys in the back. But, you guys were perfectly okay with going to NpO and asking them to stab the Mushroom Kingdom in the back by not honoring the MDoAP MK and NpO had at the time. It's okay to back stab as long as the knife goes into a back that is not TOP.
[/quote]

They stabbed MK in the back by sanctioning a war on MK, then they stabbed TOP in the back by attacking them. In that war both MK and TOP got stabbed in the back.

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1322364174' post='2853218']
People often don't honor all of their treaties to the letter when they find themselves on opposite ends of coalitions. A "lone" treaty will often be put on the ice and not honored because it would be stupid to do so and start fighting on both sides of a war. That was going to be the case of Polaris. If we had let the war escalate through normal means, there is no way MK and Polaris would have ever fought on the same side or their treaty been activated.

There is also the pesky little fact that we simply didn't go out and attacked MK. [b]We asked Polaris if they had any objection to the move before doing it.[/b] They said they didn't and in fact approved and supported the strike.
[/quote]
I agree that Polaris' actions in approving the strike on MK was a betrayal by them upon MK. That is not my point.

You are upset that you were betrayed, yet as you stated in the bold above, you guys are okay with asking others to stab their allies in the back. This is where I have an issue and trouble understanding how you guys can legitimately be upset. You hate that you were betrayed but have no qualms asking others to betray their allies. NpO was at fault for giving the go, but TOP is no better than NpO for asking them to betray an ally.