President S O Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Crush them, best of luck. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derantol Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322302111' post='2852255'] See here that they use the word [i]witness[/i], which implies that they see others (but not themselves) doing it, and despise it. But I could be wrong. [/quote] You gave the example of the Karma war. You know how most treaties have the "This treaty remains active for X hours after cancellation" clause? That came into effect here... and we followed through on our treaty obligations. No betrayal there. If there's another example you have, please give it. I'm not one that likes to dismiss an opponent's view if they have sufficient evidence; however, that is not yet the case here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1322307203' post='2852330'] Tyga STA did not do anything wrong but lets not kid ourselves, when war coalitions are put together you rely on those apart of them to square things away with their allies, Grubb was asked a direct question and he was perfectly aware of the implications of lying. The fact that he did not consent STA and falsified the information is just further evidence of his betrayal. [/quote] I don't disagree with you here at all. [quote] As for the coalition stuff, everyone apart of the coalition at the time readily acknowledged that CnG at some stage would enter the fray and inevitably they would not be on our side. I don't give a !@#$ what anyone says if we hit SF, CnG would have honoured their treaty obligations and duly attacked us. For anyone to claim otherwise is a farce. Yes their was a more than one motive for the preempt on CnG and in hindsight it maybe wasn't clever to be so trusting but we winning as a coalition was always central as it is in any war. Without the coalition winning the war we could not win the war and nobody sets out to loose. [/quote] Speaking for the STA, we never considered ourselves part of a coalition. We honoured our treaty with the NpO and when that obligation was filled we honoured our treaty with MK who had been attacked pre-emptively. [quote] As for Polaris they are simply reaping what their forefather has sewn and showed little regret for. I wish you a good clean fight, let us settle the score once and for all or not it's up to you. [/quote] I don't have an issue with score-settling. My only query here was about how you attacking C&G was doing Polar a service. As yet, no one has given any reasoning for that comment forming part of the DoW from IRON. As for Polar not regretting the actions of that time, I think many of them do because, as with the STA, their government at the time had no idea what Grub was up to from one minute to the next. That episode on the back of what happened during the Karma War was the closest it has come to the STA and NpO's alliance dissolving. when Grub stood down as Emperor at the end of Bi-Polar and Penguin took over we manage to slowly rebuild that relationship with Polar. It isn't something I talk about publicly because I don't see it as being anyone elses' business but I see so many people talking about no regrets based mostly on Grub's comments during and afterwards when they have no idea of the toll it took on NpO's allies and the other members of their government. To have your alliance yanked from one side of a war to the other due to treaty obligations is difficult enough. When the leader of your ally is not letting you know what is going on and making decisions on your behalf it makes things especially difficult. I can only commend Uhtred, Pezstar and Bzelger for coping with all that happened in my semi-absence. We honoured our treaties as best we could under the circumstances and given the same situation I would say we'd do the same again. I hope never to be in that situation again. I understand why TOP, IRON and many others are pissed off over the events back then. I know that I and those in the STA government at the time were pissed off too. I know many in NpO were bemused by it all. But, we'll take what is coming as we usually do. It isn't up to me whether you settle the score or what actually constitutes settling the score. I'm sure we'll find out in due course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1322298038' post='2852190'] Edit- (found the coward's coalition url.) [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54884"]This to start with[/url] and how about the [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Coalition_of_Cowards"]coward's coalition[/url]? [/quote] [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322296423' post='2852167'] Am I the only one who find this line so true but also ironic at the same time? Didn't you betray New Pacific Order in Karma War? [/quote] You forgot this: IRON DOW - http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55200 FARK's DOW on IRON - http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55203 Gra DOW: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55210 FCC DOW: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55337 MHA DOW: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55339 Some more: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=55389 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56127 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56485 We've lost more pixels in war than your alliances have ever built and rebuilt and will probably ever build. [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322291176' post='2852025'] As if anyone will move on. [/quote] We will, but will Polaris? [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1322194546' post='2850795'] I'm not. [img]http://scriptical.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/u-mad-come-at-me-bro.jpg[/img] [/quote] Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1322309508' post='2852350'] We will, but will Polaris? [/quote] I think Polaris had already moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derantol Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322309008' post='2852346'] My only query here was about how you attacking C&G was doing Polar a service. As yet, no one has given any reasoning for that comment forming part of the DoW from IRON. [/quote] Here, it comes down to whether an individual viewed that war as a coalition effort or simple treaty obligations. As you have stated, STA had their treaty obligations and followed them, and what you did had a very direct benefit on Polar, I presume, being a treaty partner. Assuming that everyone held this particular viewpoint, you would be correct in saying that we did Polar no service with our actions. However, we viewed the war as a coalition effort, and as military forecasting had predicted CnG coming in on the other side of the war against us anyway, taking advantage of the first strike possibility would hopefully aid the coalition as a whole. Polar would indirectly benefit as well, being part of that coalition. Since we viewed it this we, I think there was an assumption on our part that everyone saw the war as a coalition effort. Evidently, we were wrong. Does that make any more sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Derantol' timestamp='1322311382' post='2852366'] Here, it comes down to whether an individual viewed that war as a coalition effort or simple treaty obligations. As you have stated, STA had their treaty obligations and followed them, and what you did had a very direct benefit on Polar, I presume, being a treaty partner. Assuming that everyone held this particular viewpoint, you would be correct in saying that we did Polar no service with our actions. However, we viewed the war as a coalition effort, and as military forecasting had predicted CnG coming in on the other side of the war against us anyway, taking advantage of the first strike possibility would hopefully aid the coalition as a whole. Polar would indirectly benefit as well, being part of that coalition. Since we viewed it this we, I think there was an assumption on our part that everyone saw the war as a coalition effort. Evidently, we were wrong. Does that make any more sense? [/quote] No, because it was sold in the DoW as attacking C&G pre-emptively was solely done to assist Polar. This is untrue. It was done because TOP and IRON perceived C&G as a threat to their own position. C&G were not in the war and had made no noises about joining the war so there was nothing to assist Polar with. Polar held a treaty with MK at the time so I don't see how MK or C&G would have been an issue for the NpO. As I said earlier, TOP/IRON wanted to use the assembled alliances to knock their perceived rivals down a rung or two and Grub saw a chance to see TOP get rolled which he took. Both of you were motivated only by your own self-interest. Edited November 26, 2011 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Reiffenstein Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322291460' post='2852051'] STA neither agreed nor disagreed with the plan, for the record; pezstar said that, if asked about the matter, she'd pretend to never have heard about it. [/quote] That's a bloody lie! Produce the logs or else recant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322312019' post='2852371'] C&G were not in the war and had made no noises about joining the war so there was nothing to assist Polar with. [/quote] huh? O wait, you were not even there during the whole time. Keep believing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1322312137' post='2852375'] huh? O wait, you were not even there during the whole time. Keep believing. [/quote] I was here just not as much as I'd have liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhizoctonia Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Roll them IRON! Godspeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laslo Kenez Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 About time, this is going to be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322299072' post='2852209'] That never happened. IRON never, I repeat, NEVER, betrayed NPO. Oh wait, [b]it did happen[/b]. For your own sake, next time when you post a declaration of war, do not cite something about loyalty and honor. You betrayed NPO in Karma war by cancelling your MADP treaty when they need you most, that is a fact. You are a betrayer yourself, you are the last alliance to talk about loyalty and honor. [/quote] You, sir, speak of things you know nothing about. IRON and most of the members of the "Cowards Coalition" did drop treaties with the NPO, but they did come through one last time and fought that war for the NPO. The real betrayal was NPO in not listening to its allies not agreeing with them declared war on OV. This war was because Polaris directly told TOP, IRON, DAWN, and company that they were fine with them hitting C&G, and then betrayed TOP and company. Betrayals are not forgotten easily, and I'm frankly surprised it took this long for payback against Polaris for their screwing the pooch in that war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Spectre Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 As much as a I hate Polar, I expected a DoW with more substance from IRON... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Jacob Reiffenstein' timestamp='1322312127' post='2852374'] That's a bloody lie! Produce the logs or else recant! [/quote] how dare he besmirch a lady's honor, surely the only choice such an honorable man such as yourself has is to prove these falsehoods on the field of battle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Miller Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Silent Spectre' timestamp='1322315336' post='2852405'] As much as a I hate Polar, I expected a DoW with more substance from IRON... [/quote] What, pray tell, would have constituted "more substance" in this case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1322316133' post='2852415'] What, pray tell, would have constituted "more substance" in this case? [/quote] Hell, even Polaris was asking for DoW just two days ago right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Matt Miller' timestamp='1322316133' post='2852415'] What, pray tell, would have constituted "more substance" in this case? [/quote] A poem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1322316537' post='2852425'] A poem [/quote] I had this winter-related poem in mind, but it would have led to the Shark Week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geerland Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Bit odd to say this but o/ IRON Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notadolfhitler Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I leave council for a few months and this happens >_<! /me begins to roll :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exige Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 go go iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I am glad to see IRON is honest about its anger issues. Let it all out, IRON. Let it all out. Here, let this nuke represent what you feel... Forward into battle, IRON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenann Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 o/ IRON Roll out and bring home some polar bear rugs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havamil Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Have fun Iron and Top. Paybacks can be rewarding [IMG]http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o466/5150wolf_album/avatars/bearcoat.gif[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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