Polaris Delenda Est

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1322298310' post='2852195']
And that's just the peanut gallery who cries foul, doesn't matter what the CB is and how strong it is. Whining will take place in either and all cases.
[/quote]
This is the most true thing ever said on these forums.

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1322298038' post='2852190']
Edit- (found the coward's coalition url.)

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=54884"]This to start with[/url] and how about the [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Coalition_of_Cowards"]coward's coalition[/url]?
[/quote]

That never happened. IRON never, I repeat, NEVER, betrayed NPO.
Oh wait, [b]it did happen[/b].

For your own sake, next time when you post a declaration of war, do not cite something about loyalty and honor. You betrayed NPO in Karma war by cancelling your MADP treaty when they need you most, that is a fact. You are a betrayer yourself, you are the last alliance to talk about loyalty and honor.

Edited November 26, 2011 by suryanto tan

[dvdcchn]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322291899' post='2852080']
Pez said no to supporting the attack on MK and you know it. Last time this got re-hashed we were not accused of what you now claim but were accused of not going further than "no"by stating "4 little words" which were, apparently, "we will defend MK", even though it was clear to anyone we were obliged to do so via our treaty with MK.

If you are going to make excuses for your ineptitude at least try to keep the message consistent. The fact is you later decided to ask Grub for STA's position on the attack and he told you we were fine with it. We weren't and never were and it was your error in going to another alliance instead of ours to get our position on your plans.
[/quote]

sorry Tyga, Crymson is right though, you were on leave there were different chans and no one was comfortable with STA in the chan. At the time IRON wanted to get closer to NpO, had some high level Q/A's and wanted more interaction. the chance to hit MK was just another perk. Grub was there all along saying go for it. then again, that was years ago...

[wickedj]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1322298310' post='2852195']
I personally would rather see attacks based on actual grudges (like this and SOS, which was probably the one you were referring to) than some cooked-up CB around spying or a CB due to a bodged techraid.

And that's just the peanut gallery who cries foul, doesn't matter what the CB is and how strong it is. Whining will take place in either and all cases.
[/quote]
Do we even need a CB anymore? i mean lets get back to the days of beat the snot of each other for a month, peace out, and do it again in 6 months

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322299072' post='2852209']
That never happened. IRON never, I repeat, NEVER, betrayed NPO.
Oh wait, [b]it did happen[/b].

For your own sake, next time when you post a declaration of war, do not cite something about loyalty and honor. You betrayed NPO in Karma war by cancelling your MADP treaty when they need you most, that is a fact. You are a betrayer yourself, you are the last alliance to talk about loyal and honor.
[/quote]
Just stop. If you actually talk to them about the reasons they posted that topic, you'll learn what happened and the reasons for it. Even in that thread I believe they state they still have individual treaties still.

You are making a fool of yourself.

Good luck IRON!

Edited November 26, 2011 by Steve Buscemi

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Proest' timestamp='1322297847' post='2852187']
In my honest opinion, I have my dislikes for certain alliances of which are very, very few -- but one thing I just can't get behind is attacking an alliance over behavior two years former. But, where have I seen this before? Earlier this year....

It is saying a lot when wars have to be started for nothing truly recent at all, a lot indeed. Polaris has their hiccups just like others, just some hiccups stink to hell. I guess this is just the 'evolution' of politics these days.
[/quote]


For you to complain that this CB is less valid because it is about someone being stabbed in the back is entirely fitting for you, Brutus.
The part where you insinuate things need to be more recent (and given your recent track record, even fabricated,) would be more suitable to your liking made me chuckle.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='dvdcchn' timestamp='1322299182' post='2852212']
sorry Tyga, Crymson is right though, you were on leave there were different chans and no one was comfortable with STA in the chan. At the time IRON wanted to get closer to NpO, had some high level Q/A's and wanted more interaction. the chance to hit MK was just another perk. Grub was there all along saying go for it. then again, that was years ago...
[/quote]

How does that make what I said wrong? Crymson said STA was ok with TOP/IRON attacking MK, that was not the case. Grub is not and never was in the STA government and therefore cannot and never could speak for the STA. The fact that TOP decided to ask him for STA's position on the matter after Pez had already stated we would not support the attack is not STA's fault. It is TOP's fault.

[Shan Revan]

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322299072' post='2852209']
That never happened. IRON never, I repeat, NEVER, betrayed NPO.
Oh wait, [b]it did happen[/b].

For your own sake, next time when you post a declaration of war, do not cite something about loyalty and honor. You betrayed NPO in Karma war by cancelling your MADP treaty when they need you most, that is a fact. You are a betrayer yourself, you are the last alliance to talk about loyalty and honor.
[/quote]
You really should brush up on your reading comprehension because there is nothing of the sort in the DoW. In fact it implicitly acknowledges our failings in the past.
[quote]There is much we have forgiven [b]and much we have been forgiven for[/b]. Betrayal is not a concept new to us.[/quote]
You are partially correct though. As we did meet our treaty requirements, and defended NPO (among others), we do not see it as a betrayal but rather a strong protest of their actions. We do however realise that it was a dick move and just about everyone who was part of that has expressed regret and would do things differently if given the chance. On the other hand the NPO did see it as a betrayal, and (presumably much like you) assumed we were shamed into action by the public.

So did IRON betray NPO? Depends who you ask, both opinions are justified. Does it matter? No not really because both of us have spent a lot of time and effort making amends for our mutual wrongs and have forgiven each other and now enjoy a positive friendship again.

How does any of this relate to the current war? It doesn't.

From our perspective, Polar betrayed us, left us to burn, and then laughed at us. From their perspective this may or may not, be the case (although I have seen polar members agree it was a betrayal on their part, on multiple occasions).
Communications since then have not resolved these feelings and here we are.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Shan Revan

[Nobody Expects]

Godspeed my fellow duckrollians!

[Stewie]

Stewie supports my friends in IRON.

Enjoy hitting Polar.

Can someone please drag saratoga out of PM. He keeps on dodging these wars...

[Proest]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1322299817' post='2852217']
For you to complain that this CB is less valid because it is about someone being stabbed in the back is entirely fitting for you, Brutus.
The part where you insinuate things need to be more recent (and given your recent track record, even fabricated,) would be more suitable to your liking made me chuckle.
[/quote]

Oh, wow. Still angry over being expelled from MHA? You act as if I was the one who expelled you. That was not my decision to make. Your ever soo slight of hand comments are not [I]soo[/I] slight.

[Krager]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1322298420' post='2852198']
So IRON declared over a two year old grudge and not something that actually happened in the last month or so? Really? I have to say I expected better from IRON. I'm still angry at Polar for switching sides midstream but come on, that was two years ago. I have to say that I agree with Polar here if this is why you're attacking. At some point, you just have to grow up and let things go.

Duckroll are some of my favorite alliances, but I have to say I'm a bit disappointed here. I'd never pictured them pulling a Xiph or an Athens. And before you attack me, I know you all don't agree with me so let's just agree to disagree and skip the mutual trolling. It's better for our blood pressures.
[/quote]
I don't understand why you are disappointed, IRON and TOP have been very open about their continued hostility towards NpO for those 2 years. So wouldn't you think that in that 2 years NpO would have taken great strides to repair that damage they did? If anything people shouldn't be complaining that IRON and TOP are enacting their vengeance but asking why the hell didn't NpO get this situation resolved? after all they had 2 years right?
Just my thoughts on the matter.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Proest' timestamp='1322301031' post='2852233']
Oh, wow. Still angry over being expelled from MHA? You act as if I was the one who expelled you. That was not my decision to make. Your ever soo slight of hand comments are not [i]soo[/i] slight.
[/quote]

Actually, nowhere in my post will you find anything of the sort. In fact, I hold a great deal many of true members of my former alliance in my heart and will continue to do so. The events that transpired are not lost on my mind, but this is not the place for that.
Since you perceive my words to have been a "sleight," of hand, let me make it clear: I find the notion that you would discount a Casus Belli grounded on backstabbing because it happened in the past funny, that's all. More often than not people wait a while after they have been betrayed to pay back their debt, often because they are at the time unable to do so due to the gaping wound left in their backside.

I find whether it was the day after, the week after, the month or year after irrelevant.

Revenge is certainly sweet.

Edited November 26, 2011 by IYIyTh

[Proest]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1322301377' post='2852240']
Actually, nowhere in my post will you find anything of the sort. In fact, I hold a great deal many in my heart and will continue to do so.
Since you perceive my words to have been a "sleight," of hand, let me make it clear: I find the notion that you would discount a Casus Belli grounded on backstabbing because it happened in the past funny, that's all. More often than not people wait a while after they have been betrayed to pay back their debt.

I find whether it was the day after, the week after, the month or year after irrelevant.


[/quote]

I did not say retribution for grievances was misplaced. I just find it slightly ridiculous that it has taken this long to act upon it. Though, that does occur quite a lot elsewhere.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Proest' timestamp='1322301654' post='2852247']
I did not say retribution for grievances was misplaced. I just find it slightly ridiculous that it has taken this long to act upon it. Though, that does occur quite a lot elsewhere.
[/quote]

I think it behooves me to inform you that grievances of this nature or their validity do not disappear over time.

Edited November 26, 2011 by IYIyTh

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1322299251' post='2852215']
Just stop. If you actually talk to them about the reasons they posted that topic, you'll learn what happened and the reasons for it. Even in that thread I believe they state they still have individual treaties still.

You are making a fool of yourself.

Good luck IRON!
[/quote]

Nah, IRON decided to declare war on NpO to avenge the past betrayal. That makes perfect sense, perfect reason. I will not do differently if I were in their shoes.

But they talked as if they so despise the act of betrayal, as if they themselves raise above others and hold to a very high code of loyalty and honor. You and I both know that this is not the case.

[i]Betrayal is not a concept new to us, this wasn't the first and it is unlikely to be the last we will [b]witness[/b]. However, this offense went beyond anything we have experienced before. It shook us to the core and left us to suffer months of devastation, hardships and humiliation.[/i]

See here that they use the word [i]witness[/i], which implies that they see others (but not themselves) doing it, and despise it. But I could be wrong.

Anyway, good luck with the war and the revenge. You guys deserved it. NpO did screw you guys over in favor of their allies back then, the Mushroom Kingdom. I wonder if the Mushroom Kingdom will do anything to assist NpO. After all, NpO is now being attacked for helping the Mushroom Kingdom in the Bipolar war. They could have just sit idle and refused to help Mushroom Kingdom, but at the end they decided to help anyway and that got them here to this difficult position.

Edited November 26, 2011 by suryanto tan

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Krager' timestamp='1322301079' post='2852234']
I don't understand why you are disappointed, IRON and TOP have been very open about their continued hostility towards NpO for those 2 years. So wouldn't you think that in that 2 years NpO would have taken great strides to repair that damage they did? If anything people shouldn't be complaining that IRON and TOP are enacting their vengeance but asking why the hell didn't NpO get this situation resolved? after all they had 2 years right?
Just my thoughts on the matter.
[/quote]
I was in TOP the last time Polaris tried to mend fences (they sent a bunch of diplos and apologized for misunderstandings during the Unjust War) TOP members and gov threw the overtures in NpO's face and laughed their butts off about the whole thing. TOP and IRON's decision to attack C&G was [i]their own[/i] at the end of the day, and the consequences were not due to Polaris, but due to MK.

[Sal Paradise]

These aren't the alliances that should be legitimizing war over past grievances.

[Tromp]

Good show Mia. Can't fault you for this.

[quote name='suryanto tan' timestamp='1322302111' post='2852255']
Anyway, good luck with the war and the revenge. You guys deserved it. NpO did screw you guys over in favor of their allies back then, the Mushroom Kingdom. I wonder if the Mushroom Kingdom will do anything to assist NpO. After all, NpO is now being attacked for helping the Mushroom Kingdom in the Bipolar war. They could have just sit idle and refused to help Mushroom Kingdom, but at the end they decided to help anyway and that got them here to this difficult position.
[/quote]
I wouldn't count on it!

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1322303835' post='2852287']
I wouldn't count on it!
[/quote]
Don't blame this poor man for wishing it.

It has been a while since we see any post from FOK members, or may be it is just me not paying attention. Good to see AvengerNL and you come back online.

[Scorponok]

iLike

Good hunting IRON. Also I like the graphics

[Diabloz]

Pure Awesome. Go get them allies!

[Chief Savage Man]

tonk some polars for me my dear friends

[Zero-One]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1322302173' post='2852257']
I was in TOP the last time Polaris tried to mend fences (they sent a bunch of diplos and apologized for misunderstandings during the Unjust War) TOP members and gov threw the overtures in NpO's face and laughed their butts off about the whole thing. TOP and IRON's decision to attack C&G was [i]their own[/i] at the end of the day, and the consequences were not due to Polaris, but due to MK.
[/quote]

You must have missed the part when TOP members started going "oh... maybe they ARE being sincere... and we DO agree with their stance for once... Let's give them a chance..." Oh right, you did miss that part, because you were kicked out long before we got to that part. Please don't speak with your limited knowledge of TOP's internal work.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1322300227' post='2852220']
How does that make what I said wrong? Crymson said STA was ok with TOP/IRON attacking MK, that was not the case. Grub is not and never was in the STA government and therefore cannot and never could speak for the STA. The fact that TOP decided to ask him for STA's position on the matter after Pez had already stated we would not support the attack is not STA's fault. It is TOP's fault.
[/quote]

Tyga STA did not do anything wrong but lets not kid ourselves, when war coalitions are put together you rely on those apart of them to square things away with their allies, Grubb was asked a direct question and he was perfectly aware of the implications of lying. The fact that he did not consent STA and falsified the information is just further evidence of his betrayal.

As for the coalition stuff, everyone apart of the coalition at the time readily acknowledged that CnG at some stage would enter the fray and inevitably they would not be on our side. I don't give a !@#$ what anyone says if we hit SF, CnG would have honoured their treaty obligations and duly attacked us. For anyone to claim otherwise is a farce. Yes their was a more than one motive for the preempt on CnG and in hindsight it maybe wasn't clever to be so trusting but we winning as a coalition was always central as it is in any war. Without the coalition winning the war we could not win the war and nobody sets out to loose.

As for Polaris they are simply reaping what their forefather has sewn and showed little regret for. I wish you a good clean fight, let us settle the score once and for all or not it's up to you.

P.S Mia props for the best DOW CN has ever seen.