Winter Came Prematurely

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1322000445' post='2849273']
You could have stayed on the fringe of any such polar centric conflict had you not signed this treaty, now you're basically signing up to be in the front lines. Polar's target, for better or worse, has eclipsed yours for some time now, after all, and they're a much more likely point of origin for a war. I suppose I might just be looking at it from a preservation-of-power perspective but it seems you're getting the raw end of this deal. Not to mention, I hope the rest of SF is as ready to burn for polar as you are, or you're going to get in a lot of trouble with your allies for this.
[/quote]

What happened to "everything must die"?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1322001654' post='2849287']
What happened to "everything must die"?
[/quote]
Do you really think that the alliances of Doomhouse are run by raw bloodlust alone? Anyway, good luck, you're going to need it.

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1321994707' post='2849220']
I love ya J, but I'm not taking your word for anything. I'll stick to what I know from the people who have proven I can trust them before.
[/quote]

Do you trust me? I've been closely involved with INT government since prior to its foundation. I was one of the main proponents of C&G membership. I am probably the main point of contact between INT and the rest of C&G. I can assure you that I have never felt any pressure to modify my foreign policy. Your information is clearly tainted. That isn't how we operate.

-Craig

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1322005156' post='2849330']
Do you trust me? I've been closely involved with INT government since prior to its foundation. I was one of the main proponents of C&G membership. I am probably the main point of contact between INT and the rest of C&G. I can assure you that I have never felt any pressure to modify my foreign policy. Your information is clearly tainted. That isn't how we operate.

-Craig
[/quote]
You're just lying to protect your blocmates. I see right through you, Craig.

[Laslo Kenez]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1322005156' post='2849330']
Do you trust me? I've been closely involved with INT government since prior to its foundation. I was one of the main proponents of C&G membership. I am probably the main point of contact between INT and the rest of C&G. I can assure you that I have never felt any pressure to modify my foreign policy. Your information is clearly tainted. That isn't how we operate.

-Craig
[/quote]

Thanks for posting this, accordingly your family has been released and your bank account restored.

[Khyber]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1322002738' post='2849303']
Do you really think that the alliances of Doomhouse are run by raw bloodlust alone? Anyway, good luck, you're going to need it.
[/quote]

Sardonic, you have an image to maintain brother. "Kill, butcher, murder" along with "everything must die" are the only things you are allowed to say. This smart Sardonic who just whipped out the glasses and started talking with a snide, British, stiff lip, posh, accent just confuses everyone, go back to dragging your knuckles on the floor and dragging your club, or have someone in DH muzzle you quick.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1322000445' post='2849273']
You could have stayed on the fringe of any such polar centric conflict had you not signed this treaty, now you're basically signing up to be in the front lines. Polar's target, for better or worse, has eclipsed yours for some time now, after all, and they're a much more likely point of origin for a war. I suppose I might just be looking at it from a preservation-of-power perspective but it seems you're getting the raw end of this deal. Not to mention, I hope the rest of SF is as ready to burn for polar as you are, or you're going to get in a lot of trouble with your allies for this.
[/quote]

It's possible that maybe SF is tired of having to sit around and hoping that the rest of the world cuts them slack. A way to take your own future in your hands and make the most of it? I personally would take it. I like aggressive moves though.

I do agree that this could backfire on RIA badly (and may have already). What is undeniable though is that this move took balls. I like this move a million times better than Polar signing with Legion, before they were getting rolled.

[Jrenster]

Good for you guys. Making friends.

[EpsilonPhoenix]

[quote name='hormones74' timestamp='1321941277' post='2848673']
How many Polar nations are in Peace Mode and when did they make this move? Why did they make this move?
[/quote]
Probably in preparation for a surprise attack. Considering how much deck is stacked against them, I'd say it's a valid and smart move.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1322002738' post='2849303']
Do you really think that the alliances of Doomhouse are run by raw bloodlust alone? Anyway, good luck, you're going to need it.
[/quote]
I dunno about you, but I'm a hate machine fueled by spite with exhaust of smug. Much cleaner burning than bloodlust.

[Rhizoctonia]

[quote name='EpsilonPhoenix' timestamp='1322008134' post='2849350']
Probably in preparation for a surprise attack. Considering how much deck is stacked against them, I'd say it's a valid and smart move.
[/quote]


Maybe their past choices have put them in the position to have the cards stacked against them like they're claiming. You would think if they did such, they would have the guts to fight if something would come there way....but it seems in a face of a so called threat they all run and hide instead of standing up

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Rhizoctonia' timestamp='1322011609' post='2849393']
Maybe their past choices have put them in the position to have the cards stacked against them like they're claiming. You would think if they did such, they would have the guts to fight if something would come there way....but it seems in a face of a so called threat they all run and hide instead of standing up
[/quote]

You're seriously still using the peace mode argument?

[Aeros]

If Polar is so convinced that another alliance is about to attack them, why go to all the trouble of going to peace mode? Surely known plans of an invasion is grounds for war? Or do they assume that by sticking their head in the sand all their problems will magically go away?

Edited November 23, 2011 by Aeros

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1322012845' post='2849420']
If Polar is so convinced that another alliance is about to attack them, why go to all the trouble of going to peace mode? Surely known plans of an invasion is grounds for war? Or do they assume that by sticking their head in the sand all their problems will magically go away?
[/quote]

Yes, because preemptive attacks always go well, right?

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322012931' post='2849422']
Yes, because preemptive attacks always go well, right?
[/quote]
There's a 50% success rate.

[Aeros]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322012931' post='2849422']
Yes, because preemptive attacks always go well, right?
[/quote]

it all depends on the situation I suppose. If Polars situation is untenable, its not because they are being preemptive, its because their foreign policy is messed up. Whether they strike first or not does not change the outcome. If you have friends, they will support you. If you have more enemies then friends, they will destroy you. I don't think striking first or defending will change this calculation one iota.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1322013082' post='2849423']
There's a 50% success rate.
[/quote]



[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1322013131' post='2849426']
it all depends on the situation I suppose. If Polars situation is untenable, its not because they are being preemptive, its because their foreign policy is messed up. Whether they strike first or not does not change the outcome. If you have friends, they will support you. If you have more enemies then friends, they will destroy you. I don't think striking first or defending will change this calculation one iota.
[/quote]

Going defensively will normally bring more people to your side than attacking first.

[FlogYou]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1321940445' post='2848626']
bluer than their balls much be.
[/quote]


If you took my balls from your mouth, maybe what you said would sound much clearer. just maybe.

[Aeros]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322013285' post='2849429']
Going defensively will normally bring more people to your side than attacking first.
[/quote]

No. The people who come to your aid will be the people invested in your cause. Going defensive guarantees people who are "obligated" to defend you by treaty. But honestly, this obligation is a moral one. They will support you only in as much as it is accepted. I for one, would not want allies fighting beside me out of coercion. If they truly supported your cause, it would not matter whether you struck first or not. In fact, if they were allies, they would view the planned attack as a legitimate cause as much as you would. That Polar feels this is not the case makes me think they do not trust their allies, either through their competency or else through their desire to support them.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1322013131' post='2849426']
it all depends on the situation I suppose. If Polars situation is untenable, its not because they are being preemptive, its because their foreign policy is messed up. Whether they strike first or not does not change the outcome. If you have friends, they will support you. If you have more enemies then friends, they will destroy you. I don't think striking first or defending will change this calculation one iota.
[/quote]

You truly are new around here aren't you. Our foreign policy is just fine and we are just fine. I do thank you for your concern, I can understand how you might think that Bob is a popularity contest but really it is something quite different to that. Polaris is not popular with the loud mouth ADHD kiddies, who are obviously off fighting dragons as we speak, but I don't think we ever have been and I don't recall it ever bothering us before.

Somtimes you just have to accept that there is nothing to be done about situations and roll with it the best you can. Polaris will be here for a long long time, you need not fear for our future. I would be more worried about yours.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1322013484' post='2849434']
No. The people who come to your aid will be the people invested in your cause. Going defensive guarantees people who are "obligated" to defend you by treaty. But honestly, this obligation is a moral one. They will support you only in as much as it is accepted. I for one, would not want allies fighting beside me out of coercion. If they truly supported your cause, it would not matter whether you struck first or not. In fact, if they were allies, they would view the planned attack as a legitimate cause as much as you would. That Polar feels this is not the case makes me think they do not trust their allies, either through their competency or else through their desire to support them.
[/quote]

I never said anything about their allies, but their ally's allies would feel more inclined. Regardless, this is a matter of opinion I suppose so agree to disagree?

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='FlogYou' timestamp='1322013425' post='2849433']
If you took my balls from your mouth, maybe what you said would sound much clearer. just maybe.
[/quote]

My friend, that is possibly the most offensive thing I ever read on these forums. Did typing that filth make you feel tough? Perhaps you need to step back a little and get some fresh perspective.

[Aeros]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322013688' post='2849436']
I never said anything about their allies, but their ally's allies would feel more inclined. Regardless, this is a matter of opinion I suppose so agree to disagree?
[/quote]

I don't think we entirely disagree Certainly allies would feel more inclined if you were not the obvious aggressor. But I think even the layman here (like myself) knows that there are quite a few people gunning for Polar. Just because someone claims the black helicopters are coming for them does not necessarily mean they are not. I would like to hope true friends would be aware of such a situation. In all honesty, I think this treaty is proof of that.

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1322013656' post='2849435']
You truly are new around here aren't you. Our foreign policy is just fine and we are just fine. I do thank you for your concern, I can understand how you might think that Bob is a popularity contest but really it is something quite different to that. Polaris is not popular with the loud mouth ADHD kiddies, who are obviously off fighting dragons as we speak, but I don't think we ever have been and I don't recall it ever bothering us before.

Somtimes you just have to accept that there is nothing to be done about situations and roll with it the best you can. Polaris will be here for a long long time, you need not fear for our future. I would be more worried about yours.
[/quote]


I may be new around here, but I would like to think that gives me a more unbiased view of things. The rules that govern war and politics are as relevant here as they are elsewhere. I also understand that numbers talk. If I have 2,000 nukes and you have 500 nukes, I would not bet good money on your chances of winning a war. Likewise, if I can mobilize 2,000 nations to war as opposed to you mobilizing 500 nations, I would also not bet good money on your chances of winning. Somehow, I think you are making similar bets. Don't blame me for pointing out the obvious.

[janax]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1322012931' post='2849422']
Yes, because preemptive attacks always go well, right?
[/quote]

Any attack by TOP on Polar would not be "preemptive". It would be using the most valid CB in history, revenge for betraying them and their friends who came to assist them.

[SoADarthCyfe6]

HEHEHEHEHHEHEHE. Sorry, I couldn't resist giggling like a little girly.

At least all of the terrible alliances are grouping together now.