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What would CN look like if aid caps were removed?


Mada Vopahsolog
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What would Cybernations look like in 30days if today the aid limit was done away with? Aid slot limits and 10 day restrictions are still in place though. How would it impact players (big and small), alliances, and wars?

No money limit, not tech limit, not soldier limit. If a nation has it, it can aid it.


Bigger tech deals for one - smaller players growing much faster.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

$25 million for 250 tech (1 tech payment) or 350 tech (2 tech payments). for the poorer nations.
$100 million for 500 tech (1 tech payment) or 700 tech (2 tech payments) for medium nations.
$400 million for 1000 tech (1 tech payment) or 1400 tech (2 tech payments) for richer nations.

And for people who are too lazy to click enough times to buy tech,
$4 bil for 5,000 tech (1 payment) or 7,000 tech (2 payments).


Personally, I would offer to buy 500 tech (split into 3 payments of 150-150-200) for $50mil.

Edited by XRCatD
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I think it would freshen up gameplay.

Right off the bat I'd imagine midtier nations would be hurt. The really old and elite nations with their billions of cash reserves would suddenly dominate the tech market due to their buying power. However sooner or later that cash reserve is going to drain. The impact of this cash reserve draining will be seen in wars that follow after the aid cap removal. Sooner or later though people stop spending at an insane rate and the prices drop, so the midtier nations can reenter the market for tech, etc.

There will be some kind of balance point, where buying a bunch of tech was great because now your WRC is really deadly, but if you overspend your ability to sustain a war (and rebuild after it) is reduced. There will also be a balance point based on the amount of nation building you did. Some alliances are immediately going to start massive public works projects to mass aid people up to 5k, 8k, or some other set point of infra. However if you spend too much on that you risk creating a bunch of large nations that lack proper warchests. So when war comes they crumble easily (but they do look nice on paper and thus people will be attracted to building them).

Basically if this happens all the wars get nuclear. Everyone is going to be using their 15k infra nations as machines to take 0 day nations and send them an aid package that moves them from 0 infra to 5k infra and a MP in one buying spree. Okay likely not 0 day nations, but any nation that has shown loyalty is likely to get build up.

However I see this is a good thing. Alliances tend to care mostly about nuke capable nations, so making it easy for everyone to get there is good. Basically it would become the community's decision when newbies became nuclear capable. You'd want them to show loyalty and that they're going to remain in the game, after that aid away.

So this makes economics interesting again. As it stands now you just tell your big boys: Always be buying tech and teaching your newbies to sled. The 3 and 50 caps limit this. Even at max slots a big boy is still saving so they are just always active at max slots. Without a cap you need to figure out the balance point between holding something in reserve and nation building (instead of having the game limit you). Think about the aid trains back in the day where you got 3 million, took 100k or so and passed it on. Back then economists had to decided how to move the money, as opposed to today's "any slot not at max is a wasted slot" mindset.

Also it makes politics and war planning interesting. For example if the aid caps drop, suddenly MK and Umbrella have to figure out how much to aid GOONS and how rapidly to build them. Also keep in mind one of the main reasons that the Farkland's War happened was become back then new nations could become relevant quickly. The NAAC and LUE were planning to aid Fark up and use their numbers to counter the GOONS invasion. So the GOONS hit Fark before it could finish building out.

Whereas today the majority of the Flood Empire leaves the game in disgust after they find out how long it takes. The lifting of aid slots also gives invasion alliances like Fark, GOONS, FAN (they come off of some different gun boards), etc to start heavily recruiting from their home base and bringing new blood into the game. The arrival of new alliances also would suddenly become more noteworthy. Suddenly it becomes attractive to buddy up to them, build them up and get them on your side for the next war. If the Flood Empire lands in a post cap world suddenly they become a force that you can treaty with, get close to and then build up into a nuclear capable force. Sure they lack warchests and might only be good for 2 or 3 rounds of war early on in their life, but hey that's an additional 180 nations (I think Flood maxed out that that) firing nukes for 30 days. That is not insignificant. If you get to spend 8 months or so building those guys, suddenly they can roll longer.

The established nations still have an edge in that they're years ahead on wonder buying and you only get 12 wonders per year (and they have a massive cash reserve to sit on/use to their advantage). So they'll have an edge, but letting the cash flow suddenly makes it desirable to get new blood into this community again. Because now with some aid you can get a nation that has a MP, SDI, and WRC in 90 days if you really want to (note how the established nations still have a CIA, Hidden Silo, Pentagon, and other wonders advantage. The wonder timer makes it so even with unlimited funds from your alliance's coffers it takes you 5 to 6 months to be flushed out military. After that you'd need another 5 to 6 months to get a nice collection of econ wonders. Not everyone gets unlimited access, so it will take newcomers at least a year to compare to an established nation. That seems fair.).

Personally I think I'd like the world that evolved. A newbie alliance doesn't just automatically get handed nukes on day one. However with the proper politics they can buddy up with an older alliance, get aid, and matter in a reasonable period of time. It really rewards alliances whose leaders play the political and economic systems well. These days a newbie alliance can be lead by geniuses and it doesn't matter because they simply do not have the cash reserves and cannot gain access to them without investing years of time. Also think of the drama. Invasion Alliance A comes into the game, treaties with Umbrella, gets billions in aid. Drops the treaty and suddenly treaties over to Polar. The bad blood, the anger, the fact that everyone in this conflict suddenly has nukes and is on a level plane to duke it out!

Edited by Belisaurus
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  • 1 month later...

I think that every time an established nation left the game, they would give all their cash and tech to a friend.

Older nations still leave from time to time. They get bored, their RL changes, etc. And they tend to have lots of tech and billions in their warchest. Being able to give all that away seems like a problem.

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"If you have it, you can aid it" should be balanced out by, and make greater use of, the existing 'embargo' tactic with ships. Don't want a nation to send out aid or receive aid? Use your fleet to embargo them. Someone sending 3mill is no issue at all. If someone is sending 300mill, then getting your fleet to stop it makes it more interesting.

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  • 1 month later...

Why not have caps based on nation strength?

sqrt(Strength) * 100,000 = money cap
sqrt(Strength) = tech cap


My strength is at a measly 30k with 1.8k tech. When dealing with a bigger nation, I would be able to send $17 million and send 173 tech. When dealing with a smaller one, I should only be able to deal their limit and not mine. The system should work to take the minimum of the two dealing nations.

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I think I'd have to agree with Belisaurus. I was initially attracted to CN because I found a guy who would give me money like it was nothing. I grew very quickly and marvelled at my nation's progress. But then I realized that it would take years and years of intensive playing before I could get on his level. Then I sorta stopped caring and just stayed around to chat with friends. Opening the aid system like this certainly would make the political scene A LOT more interesting.

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  • 2 months later...
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  • 3 weeks later...

[quote name='Viluin' timestamp='1338584280' post='2975846']
Completely uncapped aid would've been awesome if it had been like that from the start. Removing the cap now would greatly screw up the balance in the game.
[/quote]omg Rob posted something :awesome:
This would be cool for the first two weeks but soon it would get out of hand and everyone would become too big and we would also run out of sellers much faster. The game would probably die if that happened

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