An Official Kaskus Announcement

[Mogar]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1321015715' post='2843173']
If you declare it as a one on one blood battle and OK it with MHA I will allow a NG nation to engage you.
[/quote]
I'm not the one who wants a war, but I won't roll over if someone wants one with me.
edit: also, I'm RIA, not MHA, nothing against JRV and company, but I know where my home is.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Mogar

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321031586' post='2843233']
"You've already lost" - well, no. With your mindset (which is sadly quite common) YOU would have already lost, in their shoes. Kaskus (and NG for that matter) are made of sterner stuff than you, and it ain't over till it's over.

Suryanto is right though. Your cowardly mindset is a perfect example of why the planet sucks. It's the mindset that resulted in so many atrocious 'terms' over the history of planet Bob. It's a mindset that serves power because it doesnt dare to resist.
[/quote]
You can't be serious. The ending to nearly all wars is typically written before a single shot is fired. A talented political thinker equipped with the right intel can see this end in major conflicts far before the majority of the population. However in cases like this, it's bleedingly obvious to literally everybody how this "conflict" is going to end. There is no cowardice in stating the obvious: Kaskus lost the second they pulled that trigger. Any other outcome is pure delusion. It's just a matter of how much mercy NG feels like granting them. Ordo Paradox, these people are not.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Sardonic

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321043922' post='2843324']
You can't be serious. The ending to nearly all wars is typically written before a single shot is fired. A talented political thinker equipped with the right intel can see this end in major conflicts far before the majority of the population. However in cases like this, it's bleedingly obvious to literally everybody how this "conflict" is going to end. There is no cowardice in stating the obvious: Kaskus lost the second they pulled that trigger. Any other outcome is pure delusion. It's just a matter of how much mercy NG feels like granting them. Ordo Paradox, these people are not.
[/quote]
Yeah, but depending on Kaskus' war chests they could do some damage knocked down. They won't win, but they could make it a pain in the ass for NG.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1321044209' post='2843326']
Yeah, but depending on Kaskus' war chests they could kick some ass when they're knocked down. They won't win, but they could make it a pain in the ass for NG.
[/quote]
They don't have what it takes to make enough of a dent to improve their position a hair, especially with a battle-hardened alliance like NG.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321044318' post='2843328']
They don't have what it takes to make enough of a dent to improve their position a hair, especially with a battle-hardened alliance like NG.
[/quote]
I dunno. They all have quite a few wonders, and four have WRC's. I'm guessing they have some decent war chests to go along with those. If they just chill in those middle tiers (30k - 40k), they're going to outclass most nations in that range. They can't win, no, but they should be able to do some real damage in that range.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1321044466' post='2843331']
I dunno. They all have quite a few wonders, and four have WRC's. I'm guessing they have some decent war chests to go along with those. If they just chill in those middle tiers (30k - 40k), they're going to outclass most nations in that range. They can't win, no, but they should be able to do some real damage in that range.
[/quote]
Damage? Yes. Enough to make NG care? I doubt it.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321044594' post='2843332']
Damage? Yes. Enough to make NG care? I doubt it.
[/quote]
Time will tell, then. Like I said, it all depends on Kaskus' war chests.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Vulpes Inculta' timestamp='1321041871' post='2843313']
"Grabbing at random junk"? Talking about the matter at hand is now "grabbing at random junk"? NG and Kaskus are the focus of this event, to say I am grabbing at random junk, when it's these two I'm talking about, is nothing short of idiotic. [/quote]

Random junk. I took issue with your claim that the fight was over and Kaskus would be taking whatever terms NG wanted to give them, based on numbers alone, you replied as if I was telling you to fight NG. I am not fighting NG, nor encouraging anyone to do so.

[quote]Interesting examples. But no, it isn't true at all. Most of these alliances had very little choice in the matter. I don't know if you were in their shoes or not (you probably weren't, given your outlook) but they could either accept the terms they were given, or be grinded into dust. [/quote]

It's very very true. And yes, I have been in those shoes.

[quote]I for one don't blame the people who made the decisions to take the terms, because they had to think about the survivability of their alliance. [/quote]

If you think war can kill an alliance you are even further out of touch with reality than you appear. War cannot kill an alliance. Cowards who arent willing to fight for their sovereignty can, of course, but that is a different thing entirely.

[quote]They weren't cowards, as you suggest, they merely wanted to prevent their people from being constantly battered, which is fairly honourable from my point of view. [/quote]

There is nothing honourable about surrendering your sovereignty to save your infra. Nothing.

[quote]FAN took a beating over a period of two years, the only things keeping them alive being a pure, absolute hatred of NPO and a tight, tough-as-nails community. If there had been no Karma, there's a really good chance that the FAN we see today wouldn't be the same as the FAN we'd see in that scenario.[/quote]

"If there had been no karma" is a pretty absurd what-if. Karma is always with us, it is a law of nature. But regardless, what kept them going was a realistic understanding of the facts of the matter, an understanding that seems to elude you. Also I really dont think 'hatred of NPO' was a primary factor at all, rather love of FAN and an honourable and rational refusal to collapse in fear and despair over a few numbers.

[quote]But this is besides the point, I don't know why you're reaching for such far-fetched examples here, they're vastly different situations. NG is beating down Kaskus, and since Kaskus has virtually no political or physical weight to throw around in order to get the terms they want, NG can do whatever it likes. You're completely ignoring this.[/quote]

Well FAN was attacked rather absurdly which gave them at least theoretically some PR advantage, while Kaskus chose to attack and forfeit that, but otherwise what is the difference? It's not like FAN really got anything from that PR boost anyhow. NG isnt NPO, and I dont expect them to try and play it like the old NPO would have, but if they did then Kaskus would face the same choice FAN faced. A choice you claim doesnt exist. Based on what you have written, it's clear that FAN lost the moment war was declared, and had no choice but to accept whatever terms NPO with their vast numerical advantage chose to offer (which was disbandment.) Yet FAN never disbanded. How do you explain that?

[quote]You heard it here first folks, wartime stats don't actually matter.[/quote]

The discerning mind analyses statistics carefully and understands what they do and do not tell. The raw stats you quoted tell one very little of consequence in terms of the war. It's roughly 50:1 by number of nations on paper. Great. So what? Numerical advantage is real but it isnt the end all-be all of warfare here, not by a long shot. And you can get the maximum benefit that can be squeezed out of numerical advantage at 18:1 anyway, so 50:1 is a number that means nothing. Maybe it looks more impressive to you (almost 300% more right?) but reality doesnt care.

You could generate much more interesting and informative stats if you wanted to look at how much of Kaskus NS is tech, how many nations NG has that will be in range to keep hitting them when they hit infra-bottom, Kaskus warchest numbers and projections, and so forth. You might actually come up with some stats that would give you insight into the war that way, but it's more trouble than simply quoting the easily available and utterly meaningless numbers you threw out, I know. And even if you did that, there are many important variables that arent just stats. The level of activity and commitment of the members is always much more important than a simple nation count, for instance.

[quote]You basically said two things: that numbers have nothing to do with sovereignty and that I don't know what sovereignty is. If numbers have nothing to do with sovereignty, tell me this. There's a one-man AA who declares existence and a thirty-five man AA who does the same about roughly the same time. Do you think alliances will be more inclined to recognise the sovereignty of the one-man AA, or the thirty-five man AA? [/quote]

You are just continuing to prove you dont understand the concept. Sovereignty belongs to those who claim it and refuse to give it up. Outside recognitions are nice, but the absence of those does not and cannot invalidate it.

But I will answer your question anyway, having been a one-woman AA for over a year, and having fought as such several times - if I am the one-nation AA, the other alliance in question is one that knows me, and that 35-man AA is a typical nest of incompetence inactivity and ignorant cowardice... they will definitely be more inclined to recognise me

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321043922' post='2843324']
You can't be serious. The ending to nearly all wars is typically written before a single shot is fired. A talented political thinker equipped with the right intel can see this end in major conflicts far before the majority of the population. [/quote]

This is typically true, I dont disagree with that. But it's typically true because most nation rulers believe the fairy tales that are clogging up Vultes Whatshisnames thoughts.

Yes, your typical alliance full of typical players will see that they are massively outnumbered and lose hope, lose heart, surrender ignominously. But that is because they suck, not because there is no other way.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321044594' post='2843332']
Damage? Yes. Enough to make NG care? I doubt it.
[/quote]
For an alliance of their size, they have 4 WRC, 5 SDI, 5 MP and 5 FAC, which is pretty good. Depending on outside aid / tech deals and the size of their warchest, they could be causing nuclear damage to 15-30 nations almost daily for months. With all them mostly equipped with FAC, even after their warchests run out they could keep rebuilding from ZI to unleash more nuclear devastation from just a little secret aid, more combatants joining in or tech deals while at war.

NG probably cares enough that they will try dealing with this harshly with regards to peace to scare off any other alliances thinking of doing the same thing, but whether that will scare people off or cause more to join up with Kaskus is yet to be seen.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321046287' post='2843342']
Yes, your typical alliance full of typical players will see that they are massively outnumbered and lose hope, lose heart, surrender ignominously. But that is because they suck, not because there is no other way.
[/quote]
Spirit is nice, but it can only take you so far. At the end of the day, alliance leaders will do what they can to preserve their power in a losing situation. Bands of rogues like Kaskus will stop when they run out of funding, whether they quit this world or surrender. There is no victory waiting for them.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1321047340' post='2843352']
For an alliance of their size, they have 4 WRC, 5 SDI, 5 MP and 5 FAC, which is pretty good. Depending on outside aid / tech deals and the size of their warchest,
[/quote]
You still don't get it, do you? After all the trouble you've caused for people by soliciting aid from them. Aiding these people is an act of war, and NG will undoubtedly pursue anyone bold enough to do so. You blow my mind Methrage, you really do.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1321048504' post='2843356']
Spirit is nice, but it can only take you so far. At the end of the day, alliance leaders will do what they can to preserve their power in a losing situation. [/quote]

See, here's the thing, not all of us are in it for power to begin with. Sure, there are many 'leaders' who crave power and fear the loss of power, and their fear and cravings make them predictable and easy to manipulate. But I know these guys and I am pretty sure they dont fall into that category.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Vulpes Inculta]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321046287' post='2843342']
Random junk. I took issue with your claim that the fight was over and Kaskus would be taking whatever terms NG wanted to give them, based on numbers alone, you replied as if I was telling you to fight NG. I am not fighting NG, nor encouraging anyone to do so.[/quote]
No, not random junk. Random junk implies I was talking about something that had absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. That's not the case. But it's okay, I'm getting used to your ignorance now.

You certainly made it clear that I should suicide rush my nation against an alliance [i]such as[/i] NG, lest I be forever deemed a coward.


[quote]It's very very true. And yes, I have been in those shoes.[/quote]
Nope, isn't true at all. Good for you, I'm sure you kept fighting and didn't take terms whatsoever.


[quote]If you think war can kill an alliance you are even further out of touch with reality than you appear. War cannot kill an alliance. Cowards who arent willing to fight for their sovereignty can, of course, but that is a different thing entirely.[/quote]
If you think war can't kill an alliance, you're outright deluded. Constant war tends to have a drastic effect on morale and the views of those involved in a war. Two-week, three-week, month-long war, fine, all good. Change that to say, two or three months, or something along those lines, and you start entering a whole different dynamic altogether. You obviously don't understand the mindset of the average individual ruler. Many of them don't want to fight in a several-months-long war, they just don't have the right outlook for it. So they start to leave, and you have a small trickle of people who get fed up and stop fighting. The more members that leave, the weaker the alliance gets. The weaker the alliance gets, the higher the chance that they consider the option of surrendering or disbanding (or both). Now, you can argue that war wasn't the direct cause of that alliance's death, but you can't argue that it had the biggest hand in it.


[quote]There is nothing honourable about surrendering your sovereignty to save your infra. Nothing.[/quote]
No there isn't, but you're completely ignoring the environment back then. The only alliance I know of (correct me if there are more) that has ever accepted a viceroy and by extension surrendered their sovereignty, was the Legion. Now they had all sorts of problems back then, and under so much pressure, I'm not surprised they accepted the viceroy. They had several incompetent government members at the time, and under threat of NPO and company, had to agree to something or face total destruction.

This is a matter of principle, and you can argue what you like, but sometimes the only way to ensure you're still gonna be here in a couple years time is to accept the terms you're given.


[quote]"If there had been no karma" is a pretty absurd what-if. Karma is always with us, it is a law of nature. But regardless, what kept them going was a realistic understanding of the facts of the matter, an understanding that seems to elude you. Also I really dont think 'hatred of NPO' was a primary factor at all, rather love of FAN and an honourable and rational refusal to collapse in fear and despair over a few numbers.[/quote]
You're being fairly obtuse here. You know damn well that when I say Karma, I mean the Karma War and the events surrounding that.

A realistic understanding of the facts of the matter seems to elude you, actually. You're content to believe that Kaskus will get away with this on sheer principle, you know they won't but you're quite happy soaking in your ignorance. Hatred of NPO [i]was[/i] a primary factor, it's part of what made individual FAN rulers get up every day and fight back as hard as they could. If anything, numbers was a crucial thing to FAN. Without them, they would have collapsed easily without much of a fight. Don't you think it might have been even a little important for them to co-ordinate properly and make good use of what they had number-wise to prevent NPO from completely wiping them out? They didn't exactly rampage out into war mode and make some bloody, suicidal last stand.


[quote]Well FAN was attacked rather absurdly which gave them at least theoretically some PR advantage, while Kaskus chose to attack and forfeit that, but otherwise what is the difference? It's not like FAN really got anything from that PR boost anyhow. NG isnt NPO, and I dont expect them to try and play it like the old NPO would have, but if they did then Kaskus would face the same choice FAN faced. A choice you claim doesnt exist. Based on what you have written, it's clear that FAN lost the moment war was declared, and had no choice but to accept whatever terms NPO with their vast numerical advantage chose to offer (which was disbandment.) Yet FAN never disbanded. How do you explain that?[/quote]
FAN got, at the very least, sympathy and a ton of private support. Kaskus has nothing, except the misguided public support of a few such as yourself.

Kaskus would not face the same choice FAN did, because the two situations are not one and the same. I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this Sigrun, but it appears I was wrong. FAN were losing the war the moment it began. Well they weren't winning, were they? FAN didn't start winning until Karma. They didn't disband because (as I've actually already explained) they were tighter than the average community and had a strong desire to survive NPO's onslaught.


[quote]The discerning mind analyses statistics carefully and understands what they do and do not tell. The raw stats you quoted tell one very little of consequence in terms of the war. It's roughly 50:1 by number of nations on paper. Great. So what? Numerical advantage is real but it isnt the end all-be all of warfare here, not by a long shot. And you can get the maximum benefit that can be squeezed out of numerical advantage at 18:1 anyway, so 50:1 is a number that means nothing. Maybe it looks more impressive to you (almost 300% more right?) but reality doesnt care.

You could generate much more interesting and informative stats if you wanted to look at how much of Kaskus NS is tech, how many nations NG has that will be in range to keep hitting them when they hit infra-bottom, Kaskus warchest numbers and projections, and so forth. You might actually come up with some stats that would give you insight into the war that way, but it's more trouble than simply quoting the easily available and utterly meaningless numbers you threw out, I know. And even if you did that, there are many important variables that arent just stats. The level of activity and commitment of the members is always much more important than a simple nation count, for instance.[/quote]
For someone who believes numbers don't matter in war, you sure do think you can lecture others about it.

The irony is, I don't even need to look at the stats to know that NG will win. Not only is NG composed of battle-hardened fighters and highly active members, but they've been in the warfighting business a lot longer than this Kaskus group, and also have more to lose, meaning they'll fight harder and longer.


[quote]You are just continuing to prove you dont understand the concept. Sovereignty belongs to those who claim it and refuse to give it up. Outside recognitions are nice, but the absence of those does not and cannot invalidate it.[/quote]
Incorrect. You only hold sovereignty so long as others allow you to do so. Simply shouting "I'M AN ALLIANCE SO I AM SOVEREIGN!" whilst demanding that others recognise it, doesn't mean you have it. And if you think otherwise, you don't know anything about the way this world works.

[quote]But I will answer your question anyway, having been a one-woman AA for over a year, and having fought as such several times - if I am the one-nation AA, the other alliance in question is one that knows me, and that 35-man AA is a typical nest of incompetence inactivity and ignorant cowardice... they will definitely be more inclined to recognise me [/quote]
Except you're one person, you have little to no value, so others couldn't care less whether you wanted to be sovereign or not. I think they'd recognise the 35-man alliance, no matter how clogged with inactivity they appear to be.

[Sang Amurwabhumi]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1320849158' post='2842168']
NEW should work harder at getting more of those 1,620,000 accounts to migrate here. If even 10% of that makes it there, i shall willingly and gladly let NEW dethrone all and any pretenders to the throne of CN Hegemon.
[/quote]
I will, so help me God

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Vulpes Inculta' timestamp='1321049905' post='2843361']
You certainly made it clear that I should suicide rush my nation against an alliance [i]such as[/i] NG, lest I be forever deemed a coward. [/quote]

You keep making insinuations like this without any basis. I said no such thing. I corrected you on one point and one point only - your assertion that simple numerical superiority means the war is lost and further that Kaskus has no sovereignty. You are wrong, and your arguments on that point reveal your ignorance of both warfare and sovereignty. Your repeated attempts to distract from that by imputing positions to me that I have not taken are noted, and rejected.

[quote]This is a matter of principle, and you can argue what you like, but sometimes the only way to ensure you're still gonna be here in a couple years time is to accept the terms you're given.[/quote]

I'll be here just as long as I want to be here and there is nothing you or anyone else here, Admin excepted, can do about it. If you dont understand that too bad. I have no obligation to waste anymore time and space trying to explain it to you.

[Vulpes Inculta]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321139430' post='2843907']
You keep making insinuations like this without any basis. I said no such thing. I corrected you on one point and one point only - your assertion that simple numerical superiority means the war is lost and further that Kaskus has no sovereignty. You are wrong, and your arguments on that point reveal your ignorance of both warfare and sovereignty. Your repeated attempts to distract from that by imputing positions to me that I have not taken are noted, and rejected.[/quote]
Sigrun, you said right from the beginning that people like me had a coward mentality because we seem to be unwilling to "stand up" to alliances like NG. If you're not implying here, that I should form a six-man alliance and attack an established alliance so as to shed this coward mentality (which doesn't even exist- I'd tell you why it doesn't but that's one long debate that I really cannot be bothered to get into here), then you need to reword your argument. I am not making insinuations without basis, I am making logical responses to what you appear to believe, and what you appear to believe is primitive, backwards and outright delusional.

First of all, my assertion that Kaskus has lost was not based on numerical superiority, it was based on a number of things including statistics, knowledge and experience. Hell, it wasn't even based on those, I simply knew NG are going to win this because they are fighting a bunch of nuclear rogues.

Secondly, as far as I'm concerned, Kaskus has very little sovereignty, if any. The assertion I was making, if you'd just cease being obtuse for a few minutes, was that what little sovereignty they do have doesn't matter because NG is in the driver's seat; they will win this war and they will control it from start to finish.

If anyone has tried to make distractions here, it's you, spouting rather idiotic crap like numbers not mattering in a war.


[quote]I'll be here just as long as I want to be here and there is nothing you or anyone else here, Admin excepted, can do about it. If you dont understand that too bad. I have no obligation to waste anymore time and space trying to explain it to you.[/quote]
A part of me actually can't believe you just said that. Your nation is over 1700 days old and you make a statement like this absolutely brimful of naïveté and delusion? You really should know better.

You are here because others permit you to be here. You are here because your nation has not been pounded into dust and entered the void of deletion. You can say everyone has a right to exist here, and you'd be right. But they only do so because they submit themselves to a heavy-set climate of rules and regulations, governed by this community, all designed to deter the concept of anarchy.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1321044785' post='2843334']
Time will tell, then. Like I said, it all depends on Kaskus' war chests.
[/quote]
They are much smaller than Vlads.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1321153102' post='2843972']
They are much smaller than Vlads.
[/quote]
That leaves a lot of room still.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Vulpes Inculta' timestamp='1321152670' post='2843971']
Sigrun, you said right from the beginning that people like me had a coward mentality because we seem to be unwilling to "stand up" to alliances like NG. [/quote]

No, I didnt. I said you had a coward mentality because you claimed (and continue to claim) that the only option for someone at war and so badly outnumbered (as Kaskus happens to be at the moment) is to kneel and beg for mercy. It's not, and it's as simple as that.

The best I know NG isnt bothering you and therefore you have no need to stand up to them, that is entirely beside the point. The point is that, should you or your alliance ever find itself over a barrel like that, for whatever reason and against whatever opponent, you will be defeated before the first shot is fired because you believe this nonsense you post.

[quote]A part of me actually can't believe you just said that. Your nation is over 1700 days old and you make a statement like this absolutely brimful of naïveté and delusion? You really should know better.[/quote]

Hahah delusion? Hardly. I will give you credit for spelling naïveté properly though.

[quote]You are here because others permit you to be here. You are here because your nation has not been pounded into dust and entered the void of deletion. [/quote]

Better men than you have tried. You really have no idea. Naïveté and delusion? Look to your own sentence directly above for an abundant helping of it. You have no clue just how difficult a job that would be - but more importantly, it wouldnt work even if you could pull it off - even deletion won't get rid of anyone that really wants to be here.

Think about that for a second, you can figure it out. I'll even give you a hint - this isnt my first nation.

[Vulpes Inculta]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1321160607' post='2844018']
No, I didnt. I said you had a coward mentality because you claimed (and continue to claim) that the only option for someone at war and so badly outnumbered (as Kaskus happens to be at the moment) is to kneel and beg for mercy. It's not, and it's as simple as that.[/quote]
Yes you did. And in any case, it [i]is[/i] the only option. Kaskus is outmatched in every way. They will fight for, what, three or four months? They will bleed and bleed and bleed, all the while doing negligible damage to NG (rather, damage that can easily be repaired) and if they should eventually find themselves negotiating for peace, I would personally have no problem with NG "extorting" every last bit of tech out of them.

[quote]The best I know NG isnt bothering you and therefore you have no need to stand up to them, that is entirely beside the point. The point is that, should you or your alliance ever find itself over a barrel like that, for whatever reason and against whatever opponent, you will be defeated before the first shot is fired because you believe this nonsense you post.[/quote]
Quite the contrary. I really can't speak for my friends but I personally am prepared to fight until my nation is extinct. And then come back and fight some more.


[quote]Hahah delusion? Hardly. I will give you credit for spelling naïveté properly though.[/quote]
Thanks, I guess?


[quote]Better men than you have tried. You really have no idea. Naïveté and delusion? Look to your own sentence directly above for an abundant helping of it. You have no clue just how difficult a job that would be - but more importantly, it wouldnt work even if you could pull it off - even deletion won't get rid of anyone that really wants to be here.

Think about that for a second, you can figure it out. I'll even give you a hint - this isnt my first nation.
[/quote]
Well obviously not, if someone wants to stay, they could keep creating nation after nation. The principle is, when your nation no longer exists, then you're no longer in this world, so whoever was beating you down has accomplished what they set out to do. For nations who have spent a lot of time and ability in crafting their nation, having to start from the beginning again can be pretty devastating, and it increases the chance that they will one day say "$%&@ it, I can't be arsed anymore". I'm a hardcore CN'er (and I'm assuming you are, given the history behind you), so I don't have that mindset, but a lot of others do.

And it really wouldn't be too difficult. I'd explain why but 'How to delete a nation via warfare' is not the focus of this topic.

I can see we're going to have to agree to disagree here, so I'll take my leave for now and maybe we can butt heads again when Kaskus starts forking over tech to NG? Sounds great, I'll give you a call.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Sang Amurwabhumi' timestamp='1321078995' post='2843604']
I will, so help me God
[/quote]

Please do.

[LordDarknessOfLight]

[quote name='Vulpes Inculta' timestamp='1321195808' post='2844099']
Quite the contrary. I really can't speak for my friends but I personally am [b]prepared to fight until my nation is extinct. And then come back and fight some more.
[/b][/quote]
Hm, sounds like what Kaskus is doing isn't it? They won't give up, not even til the very end of their nation. I can bet you they have warchests beyond everyones expectations to be honest. They can last for months and will do damage to NG mid to low tiers. Its just a matter of time.. They won't accept peace. Don't even assume that they will settle with peace. They are standing up for what they believe is right. I wish there wasn't a war but if it must be done, then so be it. Never assume.. Those who assume think they know it all and those who think they know it all a aren't willing to learn and those who aren't willing to learn will fail always.

[Velocity111]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438']
They won't accept peace. Don't even assume that they will settle with peace.
[/quote]
Then I guess they won't... get peace

[LordDarknessOfLight]

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1321248137' post='2844440']
Then I guess they won't... get peace
[/quote]
I actually Lol'd XD well, im not going to assume, ill just watch as it plays out.

[Trigger]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438']
They are standing up for what they believe is right.
[/quote]

Oh, please... stop this nonsense. They aren't "standing up for what they believe is right". They were bored and wanted to prove their mettle... and to prove that just because you are staring at a beat down doesn't mean you have to back down. You can take a beating and get right back up.

[suryanto tan]

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438']
They won't give up, not even til the very end of their nation.
[/quote]

Sorry to disappoint, but we will give up when it is due. We do want peace, eventually.

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438']
I can bet you they have warchests beyond everyones expectations to be honest. They can last for months and will do damage to NG mid to low tiers.
[/quote]

Sorry to disappoint you again, but our warchest is not beyond your expectations. It is descent.

But yes, we are planning to coordinate in war against their mid and lower tier nations. NG could have 1000 nations with them, but they will have very little that can deal directly with us. They will be cut out off their advantages.


[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321247979' post='2844438']
They are standing up for what they believe is right.
[/quote]

See what trigger said. I quoted here for your convenience.

[quote name='Trigger' timestamp='1321250495' post='2844462']
Oh, please... stop this nonsense. They aren't "standing up for what they believe is right". They were bored and wanted to prove their mettle... and [b]to prove that just because you are staring at a beat down doesn't mean you have to back down[/b]. [b]You can take a beating and get right back up[/b].
[/quote]

Thanks for helping.

[quote name='Velocity111' timestamp='1321248137' post='2844440']
Then I guess they won't... get peace
[/quote]

You are mean.

[quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1321248819' post='2844447']
I actually Lol'd XD well, im not going to assume, ill just watch as it plays out.
[/quote]

Well, I just feel that I need to clarify a few things up. Other than that, I thank you for cheering this war.

Edited November 14, 2011 by suryanto tan