Official announcement from the Legion

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320164019' post='2836490']
If Tetris is ready to leave, then let them. I have no issue with them peacing out.

All that'll be left is an aggressive war being fought against the Sith by the Legion. No need to make it a packaged deal.
[/quote]
If Tetris were to peace out before NSO, they might as well disband with how !@#$%* that would look for them to leave the battlefield while an alliance who came to their assistance is still fighting. They would be better off letting their nations burn to ZI until you guys are ready to as well, then rebuild afterward if they plan to stick around. NsO, IAA and the turtles at least can walk off the battlefield knowing they helped somewhat at least before leaving, if Tetris leaves an ally who came to their assistance to fight alone, they would be walking off the battlefield knowing they dragged their friends into a fight to be abandoned fighting alone. That would be far worse PR for Tetris than anything they've done so far, even if their nations get reduced to nothing I expect they'll wait for you guys to be ready to peace out as well if they care about their reputation at all. Its not like Legion is trying to get you guys to do a beer review or anything. Also calling the war an aggressive one by Legion against the Sith is just a play on words, you guys declared on them. Once Tetris is out of the picture any claim of you guys fighting a defensive war would be pretty weak.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1320174831' post='2836605']
NSO: so good we can chain in and aid ourselves in our own war.
[/quote]

that was meant to be NsO but your ego's are high enough to believ ethat anyway

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1320174453' post='2836601']
actually just read the logs, it was about you guys, Tetris and NsO basically plotting for the war to expand before Legion had even declared on you. plotting on getting GATO/NSO/IAA and chaining others onto your side like NPO and TPF

was actually a nice read
[/quote]

What's funny is that they did the same thing again this time with an equivilant amount of success.

[TehChron]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320174571' post='2836602']
So by that measure, NSO has always thought Legion was a worthwhile alliance eh? Kind of detracts from what ya'll have stated in the past.
[/quote] I don't know about anyone calling the Legion "worthless", but I've only ever called them "insurmountably terrible" and stuff like that.


[quote]Actually, the second Tetris leaves, nothing changes. NSO is still the one refusing to surrender to Legion. That does not mean Legion is trying to hit just NSO, it means that Legion will not accept white peace with NSO. Nothing more, nothing less. I have backed up what I stated. You are the one who has come here spewing crap and trying to spin !@#$ left, right, and center without even attempting to back anything up. [/quote]

You havn't backed up a thing. So what crap have I been spewing without any backing up, then? The way callouts work is that when you do so, you shove evidence into the persons face so that they're unable to wriggle out of it.



[quote]Okay, do I really need to break this down for ya? Apparently so:

1) Legion states NSO must admit defeat to get peace
2) NSO refuses to admit defeat and counters with white peace
3) Legion refuses the white peace offer

I would say that ya'll made this war about yourselves, not Legion. Legion went in with what they believe is a reasonable offer and NSO refused. NSO countered with what ya'll believe is a reasonable offer and Legion refused. [/quote]So again, based on your bullet points, the Legion made this war about the NSO because we refused to get anything other than a white peace?

OK. I disagree with the premise, but if that's your argument, well, nothing I can really do to contradict you, there.

[quote]So yes, what I stated makes perfect sense. What you are stating though makes no sense except as an obvious PR attempt. So at least you seem to care about PR, regardless of how NSO feels.[/quote]That's true, actually. I care about it like I care about any other game, in that I always try to play to win, regardless of the circumstances.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1320174936' post='2836608']
that was meant to be NsO but your ego's are high enough to believ ethat anyway
[/quote]
Well since you already mentioned them too, you either really misinterpreted those logs or you're really confused.

[Brehon]

Good lord we are all bored.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1320175586' post='2836618']
Good lord we are all bored.
[/quote]

I'm having a blast.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1320175586' post='2836618']
Good lord we are all bored.
[/quote]
I guess the war at least gives NSO, Legion and Tetris something to do other than collect taxes, so I can't really blame them for dragging it out as long as they have some fight left in them. When not at war they'll be as bored as the rest of us.

Enjoy the war those who are still fighting, it might be a long time before anything interesting happens again with how slow politics get interesting around here. I hope those fighting are having fun, as that's the only real reason for this to continue. Maybe it would be amusing to see a few more alliances jump in the war and shake things up a bit.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320175653' post='2836619']
I'm having a blast.
[/quote]
Of course you are, MHA is obviously happiest when it's doing nothing at all.

[Hereno]

Yeah I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that leaving NSO on the battlefield hasn't even come up as a serious option among our gov, so y'all can just put all that nonsense to bed.

Really though, allowing these three to peace out so early was kind of stupid on Legion's part, because we cared a lot more about having NsO and their buddies get hit over stuff they weren't involved in than we did fighting Legion long-term with NSO. The three weren't helping our coalition in massive amounts, so it would've probably been a smart strategy to have just kept them at war and attempted to force our hand that way by making their white peace conditional on us. Unless Legion really needed that ~1m of fighting NS off them to keep from being forced into calling in their allies.

But that's not what happened and so here we are, bickering about inconsequential nonsense. But really NSO's posters are right when they say we don't have a big problem with making this take as long as it needs to, even if it's already taken longer than it should have. That's just my two cents, though, and I have little if any control over what Tetris does (or doesn't do). Still, I've made several new buddies in Legion's membership, and they've bumped me over 1m casualties so I'm quite happy about that as well. Anyway, I'm rambling, so y'all can go back to speculating and whatever else it is people do here.

[Flonker]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320170217' post='2836547']
Sorry, Doch, what I'm saying is that [i]if Legion were to peace out Tetris, yet still fight us, the moment that the first one of their members did any damage to a member of the NSO would constitute an aggressive act of war on their part.[/i] When Tetris has been peaced out, the New Sith Order will no longer have anyone to defend. Therefore, we wouldn't be needing to honor our treaty with them in fighting the Legion. The Legion is free to reciprocate, but I believe the New Sith Order will be fine with a simple peacing out once the war with Tetris is completed.
[/quote]
Excuse me?????? [b]YOU[/b] attacked [b]US[/b]. How in the hell did you come up with [b]THIS[/b] harebrained theory????

Seriously, you guys have [b]GOT[/b] to share your supplier. No Scooby Snacks til you do, either.

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320170217' post='2836547']
You and others implied that mightily with all that talk of us keeping Tetris "on the cross" with us, or whatever the terminology used was. And even taking into account that Tetris is still fighting because we are (great guys, those), that doesn't really mean it's our fault.

All that means is that Tetris are !@#$@#$ great allies that don't want to leave a friend on the battlefield. Quit trying to make this about the NSO having some kind of martyr complex, when everyone and their mother knows that it's just because we refuse to admit defeat to a terrible alliance like the Legion. If the Legion were so magnanimous, then they'd just white peace with us as well, so that way Tetris can get out from under fire.

If I remember correctly, the ones that made this war about the NSO was the Legion. And the Legion started it by attacking Tetris in the first place. So, in all seriousness, how is any of this the fault of the New Sith Order, again?
[/quote]
Because, to you, the thought of surrendering to 'LOLegion' is so intolerable, you'll stay in it until you can spin public opinion around to change a defeat into a win. [b]YOU[/b] guys are the ones holding Tetris in the fire, not us.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1320176410' post='2836624']
Of course you are, MHA is obviously happiest when it's doing nothing at all.
[/quote]

As opposed to...provoking...attacking..being defeated by the Legion.

[b]Wellp.[/b]

Also, we give free lessons on how to have fun. I know it has become hard for some, but we're nice people and we don't charge.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Flonker' timestamp='1320177079' post='2836628']
Excuse me?????? [b]YOU[/b] attacked [b]US[/b]. How in the hell did you come up with [b]THIS[/b] harebrained theory????

Seriously, you guys have [b]GOT[/b] to share your supplier. No Scooby Snacks til you do, either.


Because, to you, the thought of surrendering to 'LOLegion' is so intolerable, you'll stay in it until you can spin public opinion around to change a defeat into a win. [b]YOU[/b] guys are the ones holding Tetris in the fire, not us.
[/quote]
[b]BOLDED CAPS ARE GREAT, HEY BUDDY?[/b]

We attacked you in a defensive capacity, in defense of our ally. Not that hard to understand.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320177173' post='2836629']
As opposed to...provoking...attacking..being defeated by the Legion.

[b]Wellp.[/b]

Also, we give free lessons on how to have fun. I know it has become hard for some, but we're nice people and we don't charge.
[/quote]
War ain't over yet :>

And I'm having plenty of fun, you know, actually doing stuff. Come hit me up about those lessons when I'm in GPA.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320177173' post='2836629']
As opposed to...provoking...attacking..being defeated by the Legion.

[b]Wellp.[/b]

Also, we give free lessons on how to have fun. I know it has become hard for some, but we're nice people and we don't charge.
[/quote]

NSO did not attack the Legion. They activated their MDoAP in defense of Tetris. And no, I'm not disputing the fact they obviously did provoke this and they aren't exactly winning right now. But stop being such a blind idiot to the basic facts of this war.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Flonker' timestamp='1320177079' post='2836628']
Excuse me?????? [b]YOU[/b] attacked [b]US[/b]. How in the hell did you come up with [b]THIS[/b] harebrained theory????

Seriously, you guys have [b]GOT[/b] to share your supplier. No Scooby Snacks til you do, either.

[/quote]

His argument is that because they came in to support us, that if we left the battlefield, NSO's military support would no longer be necessary and it would make sense that they would withdraw from the war when we do. Basically, because they came in for our defense, if we left, they wouldn't need to defend us and if Legion continued to attack NSO, it would essentially be a new, aggressive war on Legion's part since the alliance who was (for the sake of argument) the cause of the war withdrew.

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1320177741' post='2836635']
NSO did not attack the Legion. They activated their MDoAP in defense of Tetris. And no, I'm not disputing the fact they obviously did provoke this and they aren't exactly winning right now. But stop being such a blind idiot to the basic facts of this war.
[/quote]

MDP*

and even if you declare in defense of someone you are still attacking...unless you declare, allow them to attack you...and you don't attack back

edit: it's the idea that even if you declare in a defensive manner you are attacking said alliance that we see the ODP+ chains come into play in literally every war there is

Edited November 1, 2011 by Lurunin

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1320177947' post='2836637']
MDP*

and even if you declare in defense of someone you are still attacking...unless you declare, allow them to attack you...and you don't attack back

edit: it's the idea that even if you declare in a defensive manner you are attacking said alliance that we see the ODP+ chains come into play in literally every war there is
[/quote]

Right, it is attacking in the literal sense I suppose. I just didn't want to see it painted as "aggressive," but you are correct that they were "attacking."

[Lurunin]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1320177910' post='2836636']
His argument is that because they came in to support us, that if we left the battlefield, NSO's military support would no longer be necessary and it would make sense that they would withdraw from the war when we do. Basically, because they came in for our defense, if we left, they wouldn't need to defend us and if Legion continued to attack NSO, it would essentially be a new, aggressive war on Legion's part since the alliance who was (for the sake of argument) the cause of the war withdrew.
[/quote]

still doesnt exactly make sense because peace would have been offered and on the table, it would just need to be signed off. it would be NSO continuing the war and not Legion (think opposite of Ramlins v IRON)

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1320177741' post='2836635']
NSO did not attack the Legion. They activated their MDoAP in defense of Tetris. And no, I'm not disputing the fact they obviously did provoke this and they aren't exactly winning right now. But stop being such a blind idiot to the basic facts of this war.
[/quote]

You seem to be calling quite a few respected members of our community "blind idiots."

None of whom are any closer to Legion's side of this conflict than NSO.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320170962' post='2836551']
And you would be wrong. NSO still DoWed Legion regardless of what you state. That would not change simply because Tetris leaves the field. So you can attempt to spin it however way you wish but it does not make what you state any less false. [/quote]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320143758' post='2836379']
Well, the whole sticking point is the concession of defeat. People seem to be squabbling over whether NSO went in aggressively (by their complicity with Tetris in the screenshot baiting) or defensively (in defense of Tetris after Legion declared war on them) when it doesn't seem to be relevant to the situation at all. Some in NSO and Ragnarok seem to think that NSO being required to concede defeat in a war they are losing is a great travesty of justice and that, because the NSO went in to defend Tetris via their treaty, they are somehow not required to concede defeat. I'm just wondering when that precedent came into being as someone who has done their fair share of admitting defeat over the years.

But, by all means, debate the irrelevant until the sun sets in the east. I'll just sit over here...
[/quote]


[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1320173969' post='2836595']
Who is 'aggressive' is, as already pointed out, [i]irrelevant[/i]. We're not talking about justification for reparations or anything where that would matter.

The ideal situation would be for Tetris to take NSO on their word of 'we'd be happy for you to peace out' and for NSO to continue being ridiculous about accepting defeat until they're ground into dust and we never have to listen to them again. But that's just me.
[/quote]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1320136462' post='2836354']
We've all been hanging around the same world. I know I'm not the only one to have come to this conclusion. If it were any alliance other than NSO here I would probably be wrong. Since it is NSO....they won't ever cop to what Legion wants here...ever so like I said nowhere to go but down for Legion here.
[/quote]

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1320177910' post='2836636']
His argument is that because they came in to support us, that if we left the battlefield, NSO's military support would no longer be necessary and it would make sense that they would withdraw from the war when we do. Basically, because they came in for our defense, if we left, they wouldn't need to defend us and if Legion continued to attack NSO, it would essentially be a new, aggressive war on Legion's part since the alliance who was (for the sake of argument) the cause of the war withdrew.
[/quote]

Point is that it won't be some new war though. It would continue being the same war it always was, just with 1 less alliance on the field. That is like saying that just because IAA/BTA/NsO left the war, it is different from the original war somehow. It is not, nor will it ever be different.

[Tank4ever]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1320177910' post='2836636']
His argument is that because they came in to support us, that if we left the battlefield, NSO's military support would no longer be necessary and it would make sense that they would withdraw from the war when we do. Basically, because they came in for our defense, if we left, they wouldn't need to defend us and if Legion continued to attack NSO, it would essentially be a new, aggressive war on Legion's part since the alliance who was (for the sake of argument) the cause of the war withdrew.
[/quote]

Ive been wanting to say this for days but it was just too much fun watching everyone go back & forth.



Also since I think I may be the only govt member (although at the very bottom of the govt food chain)that hasnt said anything. I want to also thank NsO & their allies, IAA and BTA, for giving what they could to our defense efforts and wish you the very best moving forward.

[Flonker]

[quote name='TehChron' timestamp='1320175060' post='2836612']
I care about it like I care about any other game, in that I always try to play to win, regardless of the circumstances.
[/quote]
How's that workin' out for ya?

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320178196' post='2836642']
You seem to be calling quite a few respected members of our community "blind idiots."

None of whom are any closer to Legion's side of this conflict than NSO.
[/quote]
As far as I can tell, none of those quotes actually back up your point. And half of them are either from Legion, or from the other sizable ally of Polar. Nice try though!

[quote name='Flonker' timestamp='1320178411' post='2836645']
How's that workin' out for ya?
[/quote]
Better than it did for MASH?

Edited November 1, 2011 by WorldConqueror

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320178196' post='2836642']
You seem to be calling quite a few respected members of our community "blind idiots."

None of whom are any closer to Legion's side of this conflict than NSO.
[/quote]

1) Doch is not a respected member of the community by any stretch of the imagination. Trust me on this one.
2) We've already pointed our Tyga's bias
3) Bob is actually stating there that whoever was aggressive is completely irrelevant, something I can agree with. This in no way disputes my claim nor supports yours.
4) Literally I don't even know what you're doing with magicninja's quote here. I can blindly click the multipost function on four recent comments too if I wish to support this!

[Hereno]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1320178196' post='2836642']
You seem to be calling quite a few respected members of our community "blind idiots."

None of whom are any closer to Legion's side of this conflict than NSO.
[/quote]

The very first person you quoted is literally ghosting the Legion AA.

Blind idiot.