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the wompus

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[quote name='Owney OSullivan' timestamp='1318967215' post='2828077']
I can't help but laugh when matt and I were assigned a target a fair amount bigger than us(sippyjuice, who before the blitz was over 9k compared to mine and matt's roughly 7k) and the TPC guy who attacked is now sitting at 16+k. Someone was saying something about TPC down-declaring? Seems like a prime example of how both alliances handle business, right there.

Also sippy, you seem to be frustrated by this war after reading your post, but perhaps if your alliance fought a war or two this round this wouldn't have happened. Just saying. You really should have all had good WC's too, since you had 44 days of pure growth..
[/quote]
And you know TPC probably had 3 such attackers lined up per target. (just idle speculation on my part as I do not know their target list)

Edited by paul711
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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318969168' post='2828096']
I was 3k 10 days ago, its not impossible at all. He clearly was growing very well before he left. Again, hitting someone who [i]clearly[/i] has RL obligations and respectfully asked people to be fair sports men, was something overlooked.
[/quote]

We are supposed to let a guy at 3K infra and 11 days back collected come back in the middle of a war, have a massive back collect and destroy three of our nations because he put he was out of town in his bio?

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[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1318970211' post='2828118']
He was going to be back in 2 days, right in the middle of the war. He was already huge and well equipped and whould have come back to a HUGE back collection. If we left him untouched, he would have countered against three of our nations and laid them to waste. We were not going to let that happen.
[/quote]


[quote name='paul711' timestamp='1318970373' post='2828119']
That is the reason he was hit, plain and simple.
[/quote]


[quote name='Mark8240' timestamp='1318970535' post='2828125']
We are supposed to let a guy at 3K infra and 11 days back collected come back in the middle of a war, have a massive back collect and destroy three of our nations because he put he was out of town in his bio?
[/quote]

My question to all of you is this.... When was the spy attacked performed to find out how much money he had? Before or after the war started? I assume after the war thus proving you've neglected what he stated in his bio.

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[quote]Well, this was a discussion last round and a few rounds ago. GDA is a training AA for its newer members in SE. Just because they have never warred, doesn't mean they have large warchests. WAPA made that critical mistake a few rounds ago. This was the reason why we chose not to attack them because it would give us an unfair advantage. Also, I can't speak for Sippy's growth, but I can give a pretty fair assessment on the rest of their AA. [/quote]


Well, if GDA is a training alliance, why haven't they fought? It seems to me if they want to train their nations to fight, they should probably get into a war, right? 44 days of no training? Maybe we helped them out a bit, because after all there's no better training than being thrust into a war and learning how the war system works IMO. That's how I learned to fight in SE. Just my 2 cents. No disrespect to GDA as I have nothing against them, but this is why you guys are here, right? It's what TE is all about!

Also, to respond to the other conversation, hitting someone that's 11 days inactive is actually a strategically smart move in a war. Especially if he/she is a large nation. And, I'm not sure I'd ever post that I'm inactive in my bio if I happened to be without computer access for a while, that just doesn't seem smart, at all.

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318973158' post='2828154']
My question to all of you is this.... When was the spy attacked performed to find out how much money he had? Before or after the war started? I assume after the war thus proving you've neglected what he stated in his bio.
[/quote]

It was after the war was declared but that doesnt change the fact that even if he dint have a dime to his name a 13 day backcollect at 3K infra would be massive.

Edited by Mark8240
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[quote name='Owney OSullivan' timestamp='1318973226' post='2828156']
Well, if GDA is a training alliance, why haven't they fought? It seems to me if they want to train their nations to fight, they should probably get into a war, right? 44 days of no training? Maybe we helped them out a bit, because after all there's no better training than being thrust into a war and learning how the war system works IMO. That's how I learned to fight in SE. Just my 2 cents. No disrespect to GDA as I have nothing against them, but this is why you guys are here, right? It's what TE is all about!

Also, to respond to the other conversation, hitting someone that's 11 days inactive is actually a strategically smart move in a war. Especially if he/she is a large nation. And, I'm not sure I'd ever post that I'm inactive in my bio if I happened to be without computer access for a while, that just doesn't seem smart, at all.
[/quote]

I don't disagree with your first statement at all. But I am just stating what I do know about the GDA.

As for Freedom2's nation, there was no stopping him to what he put in his bio, he had already left at that point.

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[quote name='Mark8240' timestamp='1318973478' post='2828158']
It was after the war was declared but that doesnt change the fact that even if he dint have a dime to his name a 13 day backcollect at 3K infra would be massive.
[/quote]

And consider if he were here and was collecting all of these days? He'd still be a huge threat with a large WC. The fact of the matter is that you completely disregarded the fact that he was away. Because you had that ability to take him out while he was away doesn't mean you had too, but you did anyways because you considered him to be a threat and took advantage of an entirely uncontrollable OOC situation, when it was made blatantly obvious, to win (yes, this can refer to the Update Situation as well, but that is Admin controlled and is a different argument). Honorable at the least. If you didn't think you could win without facing that guy, why did you declare on us then if you afraid he may turn the tide of the battle?

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318973158' post='2828154']
My question to all of you is this.... When was the spy attacked performed to find out how much money he had? Before or after the war started? I assume after the war thus proving you've neglected what he stated in his bio.
[/quote]
My question back at you is how did you a spy attack was performed if he didnt have internet access? I dont see any failed ops showing an attack.

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It was strategically smart to take the guy out. If your playing TE you dont get a pass because your out of town. This has nothing to do with honor. This one guy coming back and putting a beating on three of our nations is not likely to turn the tied of the entire war. And are you saying we shouldn't have declared a war on your entire AA because you had a guy who was big and had a large back collect coming?


[quote name='paul711' timestamp='1318974322' post='2828165']
My question back at you is how did you a spy attack was performed if he didnt have internet access? I dont see any failed ops showing an attack.
[/quote]
Because I said what his war chest was and there is only one way for me to know that.

Edited by Mark8240
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[quote name='Mark8240' timestamp='1318974577' post='2828167']
It was strategically smart to take the guy out. If your playing TE you dont get a pass because your out of town. [b]This has nothing to do with honor. [/b]This one guy coming back and putting a beating on three of our nations is not likely to turn the tied of the entire war. And are you saying we shouldn't have declared a war on your entire AA because you had a guy who was big and had a large back collect coming?
[/quote]

Then if he turned around beat your three nations and it wouldn't have turned the tide of the war (note likely the war would end after the usual 5 days unless you all had wished it to gone further) then why worry about it so much?

As for the bolded part, so you're saying you support down declares and that the joke of OP being the 'TE Police" is for !@#$% and giggles? Somehow I doubt that's the reason you got that name. Nice try.

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I'll try to explain it. Its true that GDA is a war-training alliance for our SE version, and thus many of the members of war newbies. As to the no war, I generally like to give my guys the first half of the round to build and do some minor raids to get acclimated. I generally like to do a war around halfway through, and then a wild bash at the end (This 3 month round got me off a bit this time). This time, I'm also the SE president, and am dealing with all the recent drama, so not as much time to devote to newbie training, or they would have been more ready.

To be fair, my last message was right after I learned of the current incident. Truth be told, I'm more astounded rather than annoyed, that something like this could happen. If it had been one or the other, I would have gotten my guys going, since TPC's and OP numbers were fairly even. Well, I'll try to get this straightened out, and then get my guys in shape for a real war in a few weeks.

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Down declares? The guy had 3K infra to my 2K. As for worrying I think Cowboy and I were 15th and 12th in op respectively when we hit him. He was a target so we hit him.

Edited by Mark8240
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[quote name='Einer' timestamp='1318965531' post='2828058']
It's nice to see that the TPC-OP war is finally being properly recognized as a curbstomp. How dare TPC fight against somebody who was so thoroughly outclassed?

Oh. Well then, what [i]did[/i] you mean, bcortell?

Edit: Note sarcasm. Well, except I'm totally serious in calling bcortell a mouth-breathing idiot.
[/quote]
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=106136&view=findpost&p=2827936

Read that again, and then ask someone with half a brain to explain it to you. I've heard only 30% of people learn something the first time it's said. So, if you reread that 8 times, you have a 96% chance of actually understanding basic things. Congrats, I knew you could do it!

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[quote name='Mark8240' timestamp='1318975527' post='2828197']
Down declares? The guy had 3K infra to my 2K. As for worrying I think Cowboy and I were 15th and 12th in op respectively when we hit him. He was a target so we hit him.
[/quote]

:facepalm: Wow. You entirely missed the point and I am going to assume that you are a smart person and that you chose to ignore it. And if you didn't understand it, please reread it again see what I referred as well.

Now you are picking threads and needles trying to come up with a counter argument and it's not working. If you have anything else to add to actually refute my argument, please add them otherwise I am going to assume you gave up.

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SoADarthCyfe6, just know that Freedom2 would have been hit regardless if he was inactive or not. He happened to be inactive and probably will have his back-collect ruined when he returns, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Can't help it if it benefits us, GDA/Syn had an upper-tier advantage over us going into this war, so a 12k nation would have been a priority either way. Would any alliance at war back off of a 12k NS & 11 day inactive nation simply because he was away when their ANS was about 7k+? I think not, so I'm not sure why this discussion is even taking place. It's a strategically smart move, would you like us to purposely play strategically stupid from now on to appease everyone? :rolleyes:

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318974087' post='2828161']
And consider if he were here and was collecting all of these days? He'd still be a huge threat with a large WC. The fact of the matter is that you [b]completely disregarded the fact that he was away[/b]. Because you had that ability to take him out while he was away doesn't mean you had too, but you did anyways because you considered him to be a threat and [b]took advantage of an entirely uncontrollable OOC situation [/b]if you afraid he may turn the tide of the battle?
[/quote]

First, I did not disregard that he was away. If fact, I took his bio into consideration. If his bio did not say he was coming back in the middle of the war, I would not have assigned hit to anyone. I never waste slots on obviously inactive players.

Second, as you pointed out earlier, and confirmed by his bio, that he was on vacation. Hardly an "entirely uncontrollable OOC situation". I went on vacation in June and knew very well I ran the risk of being attacked and in fact I was. If I recall, I was attacked by TPC nations during a late round free for all. :lol1:

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318977245' post='2828218']
:facepalm: Wow. You entirely missed the point and I am going to assume that you are a smart person and that you chose to ignore it. And if you didn't understand it, please reread it again see what I referred as well.

Now you are picking threads and needles trying to come up with a counter argument and it's not working. If you have anything else to add to actually refute my argument, please add them otherwise I am going to assume you gave up.
[/quote]
I guess im just stupid because I dint get your point. I was never complaining that the guy was 11 days inactive and had the WC he did I said it more out of amazement then anything. You said i was dishonorable (or at least implied it) to hit a guy who was out of town. Its not. There was a threat and we were taking care of it. You don't just get a pass in an AA war because you put your out of town in your bio. I still don't get how my comments show i support down declares. I up declared on a guy who was 12K and another guy who was 11.5K and when was 8.9K.

Edited by Mark8240
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[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1318963785' post='2828038']
I realize you're a little new, so I'm not going to hold it against you, but like Laz said, war games and nuclear war are quite different. TPC is well known for requesting non-nuclear wars to not take as much damage. So, yes, declaring on other AA's to avoid getting beat down by LE is logical. Can't take a full blown war against LE? Declare on smaller AA's to avoid them..
[/quote]
Again, I think its time to move on from all this but just a clarification.

Had we ended up with fighting LE, it would have been a full on war. Nukes and all for as long as both sides wanted it. I was looking for a friendly, but fierce fight nonetheless--one where both sides picked a time, lined up and beat up on each other. We did this knowing we had nuke and ANS disadvantages--things that could have been overcome in a surprise blitz.

It did not work out in the end. We weren't going to turn around and hit them right after. Not because they knew we could be coming, but because it would not have been the right thing to do in my mind.

It does nothing for either us or LE if we fight a war at this level and take little to no damage. We end up at the same point at the end of the day.

Finally, about the non-nuclear wars. We've been unfortunate (in my mind) to gain the reputation of involving ourselves in non-nuclear wars. While I think that such a reputation is undeserved, I make the final call and the responsibility lies with me and only me. I understand why you and others have that perception of us, and I sincerely hope I can change that in the future.

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Also, I think this thread can do without the name calling and personal attacks from all sides.

At the end of the day we are all people, and there will be disagreements that can never be resolved. We all love our alliances and have have differing ideas about how TE should be played. Fair enough. For the most part, those that post in OWF have played for quite some time. Those people know the generally accepted principles we all live by when we play. We all do the best we can for our alliances and the game as a whole.

Edited by King James XVIII
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[quote name='Awesome Dog' timestamp='1318979256' post='2828254']
All OP nations have been instructed to send/accept peace.

Wars not peaced out by update tomorrow may be subject to "slot rent".
[/quote]
Cept freedom.

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1318961877' post='2828018']

[quote name='wired']I am not surprised OP and TPC ended up going after the same targets - we just fought each other and have been out of war for the same amount of days, we have similar nation counts and although we clearly rebuilt to a higher level faster then they did we would still be attracted to the same types of limited target options. They were smaller, they chose 2 AAs, we were bigger and chose 3 AAs. We also planned to add those whoppers in Catseye but they scurried off to hide somewhere. <_< [/quote]

Well, we had discussed a few targets over the past few days and we then came up with Catharsis, Murphy's Law and Cats Eye. I then went to go post the vote for the DoW and was gathering the links to each alliance pages statistics I had then noticed Cats Eye was gone (as stated in the bolded part) to which I even looked around in any AA to see where they went and couldn't find them. :/ We were also having ideas of hitting OP as one or hitting Catharsis and GDA as one but that one was cast aside because we didn't want to hit an AA full of trainies (GDA) or hit OP because they were already in 2 wars prior to this.

So now we have to go through another decision on who to fight! Ugh :wacko: I suppose its limited now so it should be decided sooner then later :awesome:
[/quote]

Catseye is now in AP Coaltition:

http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000072

http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000278

their TC members:

Fishbolle, Malkier, ghostryder, Richthofen XIX, Rheinoland, Solaris

Edited by dockingscheduled
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[quote name='dockingscheduled' timestamp='1318984694' post='2828297']
Catseye is now in AP Coaltition:

http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000072

http://tournament.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=1000278

their TC members:

Fishbolle, Malkier, ghostryder, Richthofen XIX, Rheinoland, Solaris
[/quote]

lol, nice Dock.

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It's unfortunate that we couldn't have a war the good old fashioned way. I don't know that I've ever seen it go down quite like that before.

Good luck to Synergy and GDA on the rebuild.

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5Usp1g7Jb2Q/TVMadeM7LrI/AAAAAAAAAAY/9-nqfXZk1Sw/s1600/darth-vader-on-vacation.jpg[/img]

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