An Important Seaworthy Announcement

[Ogaden]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319185967' post='2829853']
I gotta say, I loved reading that. Thanks for bringing a smile on my face. But how is that even a rebuttal to what I said?

My point is that SOS Brigade has always been like this, and the majority of the time Arrnea was in charge. He has done more than 1 stupid thing in the time that you were allied to him. And yeah Arrnea or those other awful individuals were leading SOS during the time you signed and upgraded. So you have always supported Arrnea and those others directly while knowing what they are made of. Again it's very convenient of you to lay the blame solely on Arrnea, and yes I agree that a large part can be directly attributed to him, but the rest lays with Bernkastel and with the rest of SOS former and previous members.

I simply do not buy the "I didn't know who Arrnea was" or the "I did not know what SOS have done" that I keep hearing from SOS members and allies alike. It's your and their fault for not having done enough research before you went in bed with Arrnea and respectably SOS.

Besides, didn't you post a DoS when SOS dowed on NsO saying that you support SOS even though they might be wrong or something like that? It's very convenient indeed to support him while the odds look in favor of your side, but when it's not you are the first to crawl back. Just like you did when it was clear MJ-PB-CnG-PF would !@#$ all over you when NsO-SOS would've spiraled out of control.

The leader is just as responsible for the actions of his membership as the membership is responsible for the actions of their leader. I'm indeed a vocal opponent of the 'vote with your feet' movement. I'm also a vocal opponent of 'Knowing your alliance before you join' and 'Knowing your ally before you sign'. Thus it might be true that from the members who remain in SOS, it's primarily the grievances with Arrnea that led to us declaring them, the members are still as responsible for it as Arrnea is. Although others are making a very good name for themselves to join Arrnea in the waste bin that is only suitable place for Arrnea when we are done with him. SOS will always be a synonym with Arrnea. It's intertwined, he founded it, he owns it, he controls it. If the members really want to lose the stigma, they will leave and find a new alliance together, without Arrnea himself. They had their chance when the only competent part of SOS left them to form NsO, but decided to support Arrnea. No, I really have no sense of sympathy for those currently in SOS.

Actually I always knew that Arrnea was more capable of destroying SOS than myself, which is why I allowed him to form SOS in the first place. I had the chance to kill him after VE found out he was lying to them but decided it wasn't worth it. I guess the community will hate me for allowing SOS to exist in the first place but I think it's kinda nice to see how Arrnea is now losing everything he worked for for the past year and some.

So good luck with the coup on Arrnea. But it won't change a damn thing for this war.
[/quote]

I've noticed this several times now but I would like to take this moment to state that you and other NGers have perpetually confused us with Invicta. We are not Invicta, and I would appreciate it if you could do more research as to what we did and when.

The only reason we didn't also drop our treaty with SOS Brigade during the NsO exodus was because Myrrh decided to stay. You can call that foolish if you wish, and perhaps it was. By then we had realized our mistake, but unlike SOS's other allies, we felt like we had a responsibility to protect them since if we also dropped, they would be destroyed. We were extremely uncomfortable with our SOS Brigade treaty from the NsO exodus right up until when Arrnea finally stepped down after the SOS/NsO war. The fact that it was so blatantly obvious that you guys wanted to roll them actually largely prevented us from cancelling the treaty in this era, since it would be essentially signing off on them being rolled. Remember, we were their only MDP level treaty for this era.

The Myrrh era renewed our confidence in SOS Brigade, and we finally felt comfortable with our treaty again. Things improved with NsO, the drama came to an end. We thought the worst was over, we were so optimistic.

Even when Bernkastel took over the reigns and GOD cancelled, we found Bern to still be a reasonable, drama free leader (we were pleasantly surprized!). But then, disaster.

Arrnea came back. Almost immediately, the drama began again, and didn't stop until we downgraded and you attacked.

Edited October 21, 2011 by James Dahl

[Locke]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319185967' post='2829853']
Besides, didn't you post a DoS when SOS dowed on NsO saying that you support SOS even though they might be wrong or something like that? It's very convenient indeed to support him while the odds look in favor of your side, but when it's not you are the first to crawl back. Just like you did when it was clear MJ-PB-CnG-PF would !@#$ all over you when NsO-SOS would've spiraled out of control.
[/quote]
I keep seeing this, but you should know me well enough to understand what !@#$%^&* it is. I was SOS' prime actor in that war, moreso than Arrnea as he was busy elsewhere at the time. I had to post the DoW and I had to be the one to officially end the conflict. We planned for counters ahead of time and were fully expecting at least a few treaties to be activated. And since you know me, you should know that I did everything I could to cut that war short, and would have preferred to bypass it entirely. It had nothing to do with who attacked who or second thoughts of any kind. The war was simply a symbol that we did not intend to allow NsO to continue to provoke us, and to get a signed document binding them to that at threat of further punishment or war. Should it have been violated the next movement would have been more clear cut and less of a symbol. Arrnea had some more stringent and tangible terms in mind, but he deferred to my plan when he saw how far that idea was getting in negotiations.

To make sure we're clear here, there was no backing down, by RIA, SOS, or anyone else, it was simply me handling negotiations my way.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1319189575' post='2829866']
I keep seeing this, but you should know me well enough to understand what !@#$%^&* it is. I was SOS' prime actor in that war, moreso than Arrnea as he was busy elsewhere at the time. I had to post the DoW and I had to be the one to officially end the conflict. We planned for counters ahead of time and were fully expecting at least a few treaties to be activated. And since you know me, you should know that I did everything I could to cut that war short, and would have preferred to bypass it entirely. It had nothing to do with who attacked who or second thoughts of any kind. The war was simply a symbol that we did not intend to allow NsO to continue to provoke us, and to get a signed document binding them to that at threat of further punishment or war. Should it have been violated the next movement would have been more clear cut and less of a symbol. Arrnea had some more stringent and tangible terms in mind, but he deferred to my plan when he saw how far that idea was getting in negotiations.

To make sure we're clear here, there was no backing down, by RIA, SOS, or anyone else, it was simply me handling negotiations my way.
[/quote]

I believe you. But I am also sure that RIA and GOD allowed you to attack NsO because they thought they had the upper hand. This has been confirmed by several sources at the time. I firmly believe that if they knew how much resistant they would have faced they would never allowed you to continue to attack. Not saying you would've listened to them, per se.

[Ellis]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319185967' post='2829853']
Besides, didn't you post a DoS when SOS dowed on NsO saying that you support SOS even though they might be wrong or something like that? It's very convenient indeed to support him while the odds look in favor of your side, but when it's not you are the first to crawl back. Just like you did when it was clear MJ-PB-CnG-PF would !@#$ all over you when NsO-SOS would've spiraled out of control.
[/quote]

Since I guess this should have been addressed to us at Invicta, Yeah, we did make a DoS, although it never said we thought they were wrong, as far as I know (and I was only a dMoIA at the time, so I didn't know everything) we thought they were in the right, based on what we had heard about the situation from SOS. After a little time to think about it and some shouting from some gov who weren't on at the time, we realised it was a dumb idea, but it's a little hard to take back after you've made the post. We never 'crawled back', simply because we never stepped up. IIRC, we were still rebuilding after the DH-NPO war/reps, and as we were in no fit state to fight, so we made the DoS instead Not our finest hour, but there you go.

[Ogaden]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319189957' post='2829868']
I believe you. But I am also sure that RIA and GOD allowed you to attack NsO because they thought they had the upper hand. This has been confirmed by several sources at the time. I firmly believe that if they knew how much resistant they would have faced they would never allowed you to continue to attack. Not saying you would've listened to them, per se.
[/quote]

I would be curious as to who these people are, because we in RIA certainly did not consider ourselves to have a very strong hand at the time. We were preparing ourselves to get rolled.

[Londo Mollari]

The weeaboo menace has not yet been eliminated! Keep on stomping NG! o/

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1319218436' post='2829989']
I would be curious as to who these people are, because we in RIA certainly did not consider ourselves to have a very strong hand at the time. We were preparing ourselves to get rolled.
[/quote]

One of them was Xiph. So yeah.

[magicninja]

I still think the Polar guys and SF should throw their lot together and ride it for all it's worth. Too much to hope for though.

[Locke]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1319224602' post='2830050']
One of them was Xiph. So yeah.
[/quote]
Ha ha ha, that's a laugh. There's a fun story tied to that, actually, but not one I feel like telling here. Needless to say, Xiph was certainly not pushing anything. If anything it was Arrnea pushing Xiph.

[Saniiro Matsudaira]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1319234338' post='2830133']
Ha ha ha, that's a laugh. There's a fun story tied to that, actually, but not one I feel like telling here. Needless to say, Xiph was certainly not pushing anything. If anything it was Arrnea pushing Xiph.
[/quote]
Wait, Arrnea has has enough prestige to push another leader on Planet Bob?

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1319225144' post='2830058']
I still think the Polar guys and SF should throw their lot together and ride it for all it's worth. Too much to hope for though.
[/quote]
Or, GATO could put their money their mouth (you) is. If you want us, come get us.

/me wakes up

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1319241288' post='2830179']
Wait, Arrnea has has enough prestige to push another leader on Planet Bob?
[/quote]

Remember the war didn't expand?

Edited October 22, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Locke]

[quote name='Saniiro Matsudaira' timestamp='1319241288' post='2830179']
Wait, Arrnea has has enough prestige to push another leader on Planet Bob?
[/quote]
I'm not saying he succeeded. But again, this isn't the place for that story.

[King Xander the Only]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1319243075' post='2830193']
I'm not saying he succeeded. But again, this isn't the place for that story.
[/quote]
You tempt us with a story of backroom buffoonery, then snatch it away. [b]You[/b] are the true monster.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='King Xander the Only' timestamp='1319251791' post='2830247']
You tempt us with a story of backroom buffoonery, then snatch it away. [b]You[/b] are the true monster.
[/quote]

This. ^

Also, have any terms been put forth yet? Have any in mind or is this a war-until-they're-smacked-down thing or a disbandment attempt?

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1319252505' post='2830250']
This. ^

Also, have any terms been put forth yet? Have any in mind or is this a war-until-they're-smacked-down thing or a disbandment attempt?
[/quote]

This isn't the place for such a story.

[Kellory]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1319189575' post='2829866']
It had nothing to do with who attacked who or second thoughts of any kind. The war was simply a symbol that we did not intend to allow NsO to continue to provoke us, and to get a signed document binding them to that at threat of further punishment or war. Should it have been violated the next movement would have been more clear cut and less of a symbol. Arrnea had some more stringent and tangible terms in mind, but he deferred to my plan when he saw how far that idea was getting in negotiations.
[/quote]

The only provocation between the SOS Brigade and NsO has come from the SOS Brigade. Pretty much every confrontation has been at the instigation of the SOS Brigade. And you are still holding to that story?

Before the SOS-NsO war there had not been any official contact between the SOS Brigade and the NsO since that whole stupid Facebook incident that Arrnea blew totally out of proportion. So basically you went to war and almost got yourself and your allies rolled for a document that reiterated the status quo. And you call that getting what you wanted? We're supposed to accept that you went to war to get something that already existed and that is a victory for SOS? That is not even symbolic. It's just kinda...yeah.

You got that document because it cost NsO nothing and it gave you at least a threadbare excuse of something.

As for trying to bypass the whole war, it is rather difficult to bypass it when you do not even talk to either the involved party or their protector or their allies. I know you'll probably pull the whole "If we talked to them they'd have gone to peace mode" line again. And maybe so. But by not even talking to them you pretty much preclude bypassing the war, so you should not even try to claim that really. The purpose of negotiation is compromise. And a good compromise always leaves both sides feeling a bit unhappy. But then again SOS is not about compromise is it? It is always about what you wanted and thus everything has to be a victory. Even in something like this you have to try to spin victory.

I love the spin Locke, but I doubt anyone would buy it. All they have to do is look at every SOS-NsO thread and in each case it is SOS trying to provoke NsO or screaming about some perceived insult or hurt and blowing things out of proportion. Like how upset you got when our treaty with NsO contained a dozen or so words from a defunct treaty you wrote a year or so previously.

Just out of curiosity, what galls you more? The fact you were never able to destroy NsO, or the fact that at least under Mio they were perfectly happy to ignore you when they could and never really cared much about you? Yeah, I know you'll probably say neither since clearly NsO was such a small issue to you. Which of course is why you always fixated on them in a thread that contained them in any form. But hey, maybe you'll surprise me.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Kellory' timestamp='1319264607' post='2830369']
All they have to do is look at every SOS-NsO thread and in each case it is SOS trying to provoke NsO or screaming about some perceived insult or hurt and blowing things out of proportion.
[/quote]
Amen to that!!!

[Locke]

[quote name='Kellory' timestamp='1319264607' post='2830369']
Just out of curiosity, what galls you more? The fact you were never able to destroy NsO, or the fact that at least under Mio they were perfectly happy to ignore you when they could and never really cared much about you? Yeah, I know you'll probably say neither since clearly NsO was such a small issue to you. Which of course is why you always fixated on them in a thread that contained them in any form. But hey, maybe you'll surprise me.
[/quote]
What galls me is that you used to be a reasonable person. Putting "Mio" and "ignore you" into the same sentence is quite the laugh though. Frankly, there is no such thing as a peaceful negotiation when she gets involved.

You know nothing about me or SOS, and when you pretend to speak for either it simply makes you look foolish.

[Kellory]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1319300091' post='2830507']
What galls me is that you used to be a reasonable person. Putting "Mio" and "ignore you" into the same sentence is quite the laugh though. Frankly, there is no such thing as a peaceful negotiation when she gets involved.

You know nothing about me or SOS, and when you pretend to speak for either it simply makes you look foolish.
[/quote]

I remain reasonable. You just do not find me so because I do not agree with your version of reality, and am willing to point out the flaws in your arguments.

I did not try to speak for the SOS Brigade or you. I simply asked a question and predicted that you would choose the "neither" option. In choosing to try to shift the argument from my question to me directly you in fact choose the "neither" option. Which I of course predicted you would try to do. Which I guess means, regardless of your protestations to the opposite, I do know you a bit better than you seem to think.

As for peaceful negotiation, every time SOS was forced to negotiate, peace was maintained. You can claim that this is only because you gave up something. But since none of your complaints were ever shown to be valid, and little more than blowing a small incident up into something larger, in fact the SOS Brigade did not give up anything. Just that particular excuse while a new issue was discovered. The one time peace did not prevail was when the SOS Brigade choose to skip the negotiation part and move directly to war. As the reason for that war was found to be even more lacking than previous reasons, it can only be concluded that the SOS Brigade leadership knew how weak it was and choose to simply try to force the issue. I know you've personally pointed out that by negotiation you lose the major first strike option, but that is the price for wanting a peaceful settlement. By moving directly to war that demonstrates that peace was not something that was really desired.

As for looking foolish, that is largely a matter of point of view and opinion. The real question isnt whether you find me foolish or I find you foolish. It is how the rest of the world finds either of us really. For myself, I dont really care much. People are free to find me as serious or foolish as they want. Either way it helps me.

If you want to talk about foolish, how serious can anyone take the statement that the SOS Brigade undertook a war that almost got them and their allies curb stomped to gain a document that maintained the status quo of no official contact which had already existed for most of the existence of NsO. The only thing symbolic I saw out of that was that NsO was willing to take their losses so that their allies would not have to fight a war, even if it was going to be one they would win.

I do find it odd that here you are watching your former alliance get shredded, in part because of your actions, and yet you are trying to defend those actions rather than trying to help make peace as atonement for your part in all of this. But I guess that would require you to believe you actually did something wrong. Have fun watching your former alliance burn though. I'm sure your posts of how it is all a lie and the righteousness of your struggles for them against the insurmountable odds of the hatred NsO and the rest of Planet Bob will help fuel their passion and make their curb stomp all the more palatable to take.

[Locke]

[quote name='Kellory' timestamp='1319317121' post='2830610']
I did not try to speak for the SOS Brigade or you. I simply asked a question and predicted that you would choose the "neither" option. In choosing to try to shift the argument from my question to me directly you in fact choose the "neither" option. Which I of course predicted you would try to do. Which I guess means, regardless of your protestations to the opposite, I do know you a bit better than you seem to think.

I do find it odd that here you are watching your former alliance get shredded, in part because of your actions, and yet you are trying to defend those actions rather than trying to help make peace as atonement for your part in all of this. But I guess that would require you to believe you actually did something wrong. Have fun watching your former alliance burn though. I'm sure your posts of how it is all a lie and the righteousness of your struggles for them against the insurmountable odds of the hatred NsO and the rest of Planet Bob will help fuel their passion and make their curb stomp all the more palatable to take.
[/quote]
The answer was an option between two wrong answers. I simply gave you answer you did not like, and you accuse me of dodging it, a frequent tactic of people who pose such questions.

What in the bloody hell are you on about? I have no investment in SOS any longer. I'm not here to speak for or against them. There are things they've done I agree with and those I've disagreed with it. I'm merely speaking my mind. You've been trying to pin motives on me (and them too) that simply don't exist, comical in light of your accusations of the same.

[Jack Diorno]

Destroy them.
God speed Non Grata.