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What Constitutes Spying?


Unknown Smurf
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Which of the following scenarios would you considering spying?  

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Considering the current war, and some other situations people may or may not know about, I pose the following question. Which of the following scenarios do you consider an act of spying?

First, I must define spying: For our purposes it will be: An act involving illegal dissemination of information that can be used as a casus belli.

Which then begs the question: Why do you consider the options you chose CBs?


EDIT:

[b]Work under the assumption that in every scenario the person doing the sharing is the one who obtained the information (except in the option that says "obtained from another source" )[/b]

Edited by Unknown Smurf
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The only option that even comes close, is the first one - and even then, I don't personally consider that as something that requires a DoW (if it's just an intel, if it causes damage then it's a whole other ball game) tho I do consider it spying.

Sharing/spreading/spamming/blah blha blah information obtained from other sources is not spying. Physically being the one to go and obtain said information, is spying. The flaw in every single option there is that they are only focusing on the one who is sharing the information with no regards for who is obtaining it.

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[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1318359248' post='2822974']
The only option that even comes close, is the first one - and even then, I don't personally consider that as something that requires a DoW (if it's just an intel, if it causes damage then it's a whole other ball game) tho I do consider it spying.

Sharing/spreading/spamming/blah blha blah information obtained from other sources is not spying. Physically being the one to go and obtain said information, is spying. The flaw in every single option there is that they are only focusing on the one who is sharing the information with no regards for who is obtaining it.
[/quote]

Work under the assumption that in every scenario the person doing the sharing is the one who obtained the information (except in the option that says "obtained from another source" )

About to edit the OP to reflect that.

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It's pretty simple, spying is gathering information that is considered confidential and sharing it with people that information was not meant to be shared with.

This runs the gamut from private discussions to warchest amounts.

The majority of spying in CN is never detected and happens between members of alliances and their friends in other alliances, who find it amusing to share what's going on. This informal network of friends is where I'd say 99% of leaks originate, and often goes up a lot higher into gov than many people realize.

Pretty much everyone who's played this game for more than a year has their own private spy network.

Self censorship is pretty much the only way to avoid this sort of thing, or to just not be so uptight and be relatively open about things. Unless your members basically voluntarily keep quiet about things, almost everything leaks out.

Edited by James Dahl
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Voted every last damn option. The fact of the matter is (and this should be objective but some people seem to think otherwise) spying/espionage/gathering intelligence and sharing it with anyone is an absolutely justified, valid casus belli. It doesn't necessarily mean you [i]have[/i] to go to war over it, but it [b]does[/b] give you an entirely valid reason to declare war.

It doesn't even matter if you're not physically the one to gather the information, i.e. someone you know has given you said info, if you share that info you are contributing to whatever the objective was in spying the information in the first place, because whilst someone may have just given you the info, that doesn't make it any less classified and it doesn't make it any less spied.

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I would say the scenarios presented largely depend on the exact situation, and all of which I consider to be a CB could be, and most certainly should be dealt with through negotiations if at all possible.


At any rate, now I'm thinking about it, I shouldn't have voted for "Sharing IRC logs you obtained from another source" this would be rather irritating, but not necessarily a CB.

Also: options like the sharing information from private forums stuff wouldn't be a CB in most cases, but rather an explusion/ZI sentence, so I guess if you mean it's a CB for that, I would agree. (I voted for those two options based on the idea of it being a CB for a ZI of an individual nation, or that the nation was an agent for another alliance)

I also voted for all the IRC logs options (though I shouldn't have voted for the obtained from another source one), though again in most cases, this would be reasonable for an expulsion/ZI sentence unless it were a case in which the nation with the logs was protected/supported/planted by another alliance.

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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1318358799' post='2822970']
Considering the current war, and some other situations people may or may not know about, I pose the following question. Which of the following scenarios do you consider an act of spying?

First, I must define spying: For our purposes it will be: An act involving illegal dissemination of information that can be used as a casus belli.[/quote]

I dont consider the dissemination of information spying. Or even spaiïng.

Dissemenation of information [b][i]when the person dissemenating the information has a positive obligation NOT to dissemenate the information[/i][/b], is spaiïng. For instance when it was obtained because he was a sworn member of an alliance, whose confidential information we are talking about.

Dissemenating information outside of that context is a different matter. While it IS provocative, and in my opinion can as part of a string of behaviours give rise to a CB, I would distinguish it from the case where an obligation has been broken. Which means yes, they can 'launder' the crime somewhat, by having one person actually commit it, and another publicise it. Tough but that's the breaks.

If you can prove that the dissemenator encouraged or directed the actual spai, then he is an accomplice and then you can call it spaiïng. Otherwise it is sort of the equivelant of saying mean things about you - not nice, but still not the same level of 'crime'.

But if people been saying mean things about you in groups working up their nerve to hit you I dont think you have to sit back and wait for it either.

Hope that helps.

Oh yeah, didnt vote cause I dont see that distinction in your poll. A valid CB can be a bunch of things. A straight out act of war is one thing, but a pattern of aggression doesnt have to be tolerated forever even if it doesnt rise to that level.

Edited by Sigrun Vapneir
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[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1318359248' post='2822974']
The flaw in every single option there is that they are only focusing on the one who is sharing the information with no regards for who is obtaining it.
[/quote]

/end discussion

Time to go home boys and girls. Rayvon got it. :v:

Edited by Facade
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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1318367768' post='2823046']
So if I joined a private channel of an alliance that I had recently left and logged it, it wouldn't be spying? :rolleyes:
[/quote]

No, but sharing those logs might be. Use a little common sense. Why are you still able to join? Because you left 1 minute ago and nobody has noticed yet, or 3 months ago and they havent revoked your security clearance even after repeatedly being asked to? Who did you show, and why? If you didnt show anyone then I dont see how you could merit more than a kick-ban.

Edited by Sigrun Vapneir
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I clicked all of them, since they could all be used as a CB if someone has enough military force to back it up. Although most of them would probably be a pretty weak CB, but I like seeing more wars.

Edited by Methrage
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[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1318358799' post='2822970']

First, I must define spying: For our purposes it will be: An act involving illegal dissemination of information that can be used as a casus belli.

[/quote]

Legion only [b]uses[/b] spying CBs against alliances four times smaller than them. If you are half the size then the CB somehow doesn't get used. :wacko:

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