To all the people ~callingout~ Legion allies such as Polar

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1318024874' post='2820137']
That's all I was after .
[/quote]

I'm seriously dying if you think either of these were not public information.

[Kim Jaym Il]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1318024973' post='2820139']
Anyone else miss the days when Mutual Defense meant Mutual Defense?
[/quote]

Yeah back when we used to fight each others ghosts and rogues and such. They didn't need the help or anything but I mean come on, [i][b]mutual defense[/b][/i].

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1318024973' post='2820139']
Anyone else miss the days when Mutual Defense meant Mutual Defense?

quick edit: if people *really* wanted to crush Legion wouldnt Rok have oA'd in?
[/quote]
Maybe RoK should bring along Fark and Nordreich on oA clauses as well to make sure they don't risk anything or try chaining in enough alliances to break TOP's record on how many alliances they were at war with before finally surrendering, but maybe RoK just doesn't feel like aggressively attacking an alliance who is already fighting a large number of alliances and doing quite well despite everyone making fun of their military capabilities previously. Legion didn't attack anyone who didn't deserve it, so why alliances not even allied to Tetris are aggressively attacking them in an attempt to beat Legion doesn't make much sense to me.

Edit:
[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1318024973' post='2820139']
First off, stop posting.
[/quote]
Seeing the quality of your posting lately, hearing anything from you calling others bad posters or telling others to stop posting is beyond funny. Listen to your own advice if you're serious and not being a bad poster on purpose.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Methrage

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1318025124' post='2820141']
I'm seriously dying if you think either of these were not public information.
[/quote]
I just wanna say, I think your avatar is great.

[potato]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1318025124' post='2820141']
I'm seriously dying if you think either of these were not public information.
[/quote]

If you admit it in public, it can be used to 1up you in two years time!

[Salmia]

The point that is being missed is his opinion hasn't changed, the repetitive arguments about Legion's allies not honoring their treaties are so redundant that it drives even someone who has a low opinion of Polar to point out the terrible arguments being made, not defending Polar but pointing out the terribleness of Planet Bob in general. Not that I expect any different from around here.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1318027387' post='2820177']
The point that is being missed is his opinion hasn't changed, the repetitive arguments about Legion's allies not honoring their treaties are so redundant that it drives even someone who has a low opinion of Polar to point out the terrible arguments being made, not defending Polar but pointing out the terribleness of Planet Bob in general. Not that I expect any different from around here.
[/quote]

Thank you, Salmia.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1318027387' post='2820177']
The point that is being missed is his opinion hasn't changed, the repetitive arguments about Legion's allies not honoring their treaties are so redundant that it drives even someone who has a low opinion of Polar to point out the terrible arguments being made, not defending Polar but pointing out the terribleness of Planet Bob in general. Not that I expect any different from around here.
[/quote]
The ones calling NpO cowards for staying out until Legion requests their assistance are far more cowardly than NpO for being unwilling to go after NpO directly, but instead thinking they can get to NpO by going after others and then trying to e-lawyer the other alliances treaty to make it sound like NpO should be rushing into this full kamikaze mode regardless of whether their allies want the help or it would make things worse. Its reminds of if someone were to go after another person's friends and family to provoke them into fighting them or getting themselves killed by showing up to a location where they'll be attacked where the enemy has the advantage, it would be much more brave to just confront the one they have a problem with directly rather than hurt people they know to provoke the guy into fighting them in a situation where he'll be at a major disadvantage.

NpO isn't hiding from anyone, people can DoW NpO if they want. This war isn't about NpO though, its Legion being attacked by a bunch of alliances in response to them taking military action against Tetris, due to the reasons stated in Legion's DoW.

[Salmia]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318035588' post='2820291']
The ones calling NpO cowards for staying out until Legion requests their assistance are far more cowardly than NpO for being unwilling to go after NpO directly, but instead thinking they can get to NpO by going after others and then trying to e-lawyer the other alliances treaty to make it sound like NpO should be rushing into this full kamikaze mode regardless of whether their allies want the help or it would make things worse. Its reminds of if someone were to go after another person's friends and family to provoke them into fighting them or getting themselves killed by showing up to a location where they'll be attacked where the enemy has the advantage, it would be much more brave to just confront the one they have a problem with directly rather than hurt people they know to provoke the guy into fighting them in a situation where he'll be at a major disadvantage.

NpO isn't hiding from anyone, people can DoW NpO if they want. This war isn't about NpO though, its Legion being attacked by a bunch of alliances in response to them taking military action against Tetris, due to the reasons stated in Legion's DoW.
[/quote]

I am not sure if you're directing this at me or others. I never stated an opinion on this war itself, whether Polar should come out or not. My only point was pointing out the fact that most people are confused why The Leet Guy suddenly loves Polar, when he does not. Anyways, I am not going to get sucked into an argument that I never made in the first place.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1318035894' post='2820295']
I am not sure if you're directing this at me or others. I never stated an opinion on this war itself, whether Polar should come out or not. My only point was pointing out the fact that most people are confused why The Leet Guy suddenly loves Polar, when he does not. Anyways, I am not going to get sucked into an argument that I never made in the first place.
[/quote]
I was mostly just agreeing with you as the reason you were quoted, then expanded a bit with my thoughts on it. Looking at my post I can see why you were confused on being quoted there, as I didn't explicitly say I agree with your post before saying my thoughts on people trying to to call out NpO and other Legion allies. So I should of been more clear on that.

Edited October 8, 2011 by Methrage

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1318027000' post='2820171']
If you admit it in public, it can be used to 1up you in two years time!
[/quote]

Or in this case, it can be used against you in other places in two days time!

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318035588' post='2820291']
The ones calling NpO cowards for staying out until Legion requests their assistance are far more cowardly than NpO for being unwilling to go after NpO directly, but instead thinking they can get to NpO by going after others and then trying to e-lawyer the other alliances treaty to make it sound like NpO should be rushing into this full kamikaze mode regardless of whether their allies want the help or it would make things worse. Its reminds of if someone were to go after another person's friends and family to provoke them into fighting them or getting themselves killed by showing up to a location where they'll be attacked where the enemy has the advantage, it would be much more brave to just confront the one they have a problem with directly rather than hurt people they know to provoke the guy into fighting them in a situation where he'll be at a major disadvantage.

NpO isn't hiding from anyone, people can DoW NpO if they want. This war isn't about NpO though, its Legion being attacked by a bunch of alliances in response to them taking military action against Tetris, due to the reasons stated in Legion's DoW.
[/quote]

I am assuming that due to the Polar-Fark treaty, no one wants to attack Polar for fear of having Fark defend Polaris.

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1318098541' post='2820967']
I am assuming that due to the Polar-Fark treaty, no one wants to attack Polar for fear of having Fark defend Polaris.
[/quote]

It certainly instills a lot of emotion in people, but fear is not one of them.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1318007787' post='2819820']
You are both more proving my point than disproving it. Yes they would get decimated. The point is, they CARE that they would get decimated. Fear of your enemies is my point about the difference between them now and us (back then). We didnt fear our enemies. We didnt cleverly word treaties so that one of us could be the sacrificial lamb and protect everyone else until they could get a "better political position. [b]We took every beating presented to us, we got better for them, and outplayed those who beat us all those years. Do you think you guys are capable of that?[/b] I dont. Hence the reason for all this clever wording.[/quote]

C&G took one beating and i like all this great talk in other posts about the achivements and no fear, dont put it across like you was involved in the journey as a somebody as you was a nobody you entered it once it was well under way as you didnt even make it to Athens high goverment till after Karma.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1318009226' post='2819842']
I would suggest that the mass # of NpO nations in peace mode is a 100% perfect example of fear. Not even you can deny that.[/quote]

Perhaps its due to what happend to NPO in the last war, but it could be many reasons, but fear? No

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1318101046' post='2820993']
It certainly instills a lot of emotion in people, but fear is not one of them.
[/quote]

I never stated that people were afraid of Polaris but afraid of drawing in XX onto Polar's side. That would turn a curbstomp* into a far more interesting war.


[size="1"]*curbstomp being if Polaris attacked any of the alliances hitting Legion right now instead of being pre-emptively attacked[/size]

[Varianz]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1318009456' post='2819850']
To be fair Legion did not know that our treaty had been downgraded at the time of their declaration as we didn't publically announce it.
[/quote]
Rofl

The entire world knew it had been downgraded.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1318025689' post='2820154']
Maybe RoK should bring along Fark and Nordreich on oA clauses as well to make sure they don't risk anything or try chaining in enough alliances to break TOP's record on how many alliances they were at war with before finally surrendering, but maybe RoK just doesn't feel like aggressively attacking an alliance who is already fighting a large number of alliances and doing quite well despite everyone making fun of their military capabilities previously. Legion didn't attack anyone who didn't deserve it, so why alliances not even allied to Tetris are aggressively attacking them in an attempt to beat Legion doesn't make much sense to me.
[/quote]

Do us all a favor and stop posting like you know what other alliances are thinking. I've made RoK's thought process clear with regards to this war and attempting to spin it into some sort of compliment towards the Legion is, quite frankly, retarded. So yeah, stop posting.

That's all I've got to say for this thread right now... go ahead, do continue.

[Londo Mollari]

How about this, Rush. Instead of !@#$%*ing in here about how cowardly Polar is, wait for them all to come out of peacemode and then beat the crap out of them. Don't show mercy, go for the throat. If YOU don't fear a beating and you think that Polar needs their asses kicked, go kick those asses. That's the kind of spirit that made Planet Bob a great place to be, not this sniveling sort of political smearing back and forth and attempts to paint others as weak or incompetent or villainous.

I don't think you'll do it. Bold action has too much of a PR cost when you're in a position of power, and everyone's faces twist up in fear and constipation when they think of burning "political capital" or "losing PR". Admin forbid that we have fun, or do something ballsy because it's ballsy and feels like the right thing to do. Not if we're in a position of power, oh no. The era when CnG had leaders who thought and did like that has passed, it would seem. Not all of them, I know for a fact that there are people in TLR leadership who would love to follow those sorts of policies but don't have the power to do so or fight against the overwhelming inertia of the fear of losing PR. :-p I guess that it's only when you're the underdog and have nothing to lose that such ballsy action is tolerated very well. Perhaps that is why we see Legion doing what they do now, because they truly have nothing to lose as an alliance by doing it.

Let me tell you, and everyone else here, a little something about what made CnG great. We were made great when we stopped caring about the social conventions of the world, stopped caring about what the people in power thought about us, and decided to rub our balls in everyone's faces. I forget who it was that said that on the CnG boards, maybe it was Wargarden or Hombre from LOST, but they nailed on the head right there what CnG was all about. And that CnG is long since gone. Stumpy, the old Stumpy, was the best damn member our bloc ever had. He got it better than any of us. I got it too back then, as did rsox, corrupt, stormsend, tolk, trace, airme, bob, drai, hombre, wargarden, archon, wing01, and many others that I am not remembering now. Getting power changed *all* of us, and none of us for the better. We were at our best, and Athens was certainly at its best, when #thefreeworld was a place full of dick jokes and !@#$%*ing about NPO. And the reason we even got power wasn't even because any of us made some grand strategic power play. We weren't even really expecting to win. Not our leadership, not our memberships, not anyone. NPO screwed the pooch pretty badly and lost a lot of support in the leadup to the war and in their execution, and Athens had made some damn fine true friends that stood with us when NPO went a CnG-hunting. Archon did a masterful job of speaking for the Karma coalition and steadying some of its shakier members early on, and I certainly played a role in the coalition's success as well, but at the end of the day none of us in CnG were expecting to win even one or two weeks before the Karma war started. I wanted to beat the hegemony back then but I didn't really think it was possible. I fought them anyway, we fought them anyway, CnG fought them anyway, because we believed that they were truly wretched people, because we wanted to make a stand, and because we had nothing left to lose. It was our very lack of power that gave us the courage to stand as a group by our principles, to stop giving a crap about anything else, and those were the days when honor was more important than life or power or PR.

I miss them, and CnG as it was then is gone now and has been for quite some time. And I miss that too, a great deal. Because that is what made us great. [b]Do not confuse greatness with political power. They are not the same thing.[/b] And most of what is left on Planet Bob is jumping at shadows and paying homage to that all powerful god called PR. I never will.

o/ CnG. I remember you as you were.

and

o/ Legion, for growing some balls. Even if you all are retarded and you're really only doing this because you've hit rock bottom and have nothing left to lose.

and

o/ RushSykes, for remembering what CnG was and convincing TLR to attack Polar. I cannot speak for Olympus but if that happens I would very much like to see us helping you do that.

[kolsara]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1318119217' post='2821157']
How about this, Rush. Instead of !@#$%*ing in here about how cowardly Polar is, wait for them all to come out of peacemode and then beat the crap out of them. Don't show mercy, go for the throat. If YOU don't fear a beating and you think that Polar needs their asses kicked, go kick those asses. That's the kind of spirit that made Planet Bob a great place to be, not this sniveling sort of political smearing back and forth and attempts to paint others as weak or incompetent or villainous.

I don't think you'll do it. Bold action has too much of a PR cost when you're in a position of power, and everyone's faces twist up in fear and constipation when they think of burning "political capital" or "losing PR". Admin forbid that we have fun, or do something ballsy because it's ballsy and feels like the right thing to do. Not if we're in a position of power, oh no. The era when CnG had leaders who thought and did like that has passed, it would seem. Not all of them, I know for a fact that there are people in TLR leadership who would love to follow those sorts of policies but don't have the power to do so or fight against the overwhelming inertia of the fear of losing PR. :-p I guess that it's only when you're the underdog and have nothing to lose that such ballsy action is tolerated very well. Perhaps that is why we see Legion doing what they do now, because they truly have nothing to lose as an alliance by doing it.

Let me tell you, and everyone else here, a little something about what made CnG great. We were made great when we stopped caring about the social conventions of the world, stopped caring about what the people in power thought about us, and decided to rub our balls in everyone's faces. I forget who it was that said that on the CnG boards, maybe it was Wargarden or Hombre from LOST, but they nailed on the head right there what CnG was all about. And that CnG is long since gone. Stumpy, the old Stumpy, was the best damn member our bloc ever had. He got it better than any of us. I got it too back then, as did rsox, corrupt, stormsend, tolk, trace, airme, bob, drai, hombre, wargarden, archon, wing01, and many others that I am not remembering now. Getting power changed *all* of us, and none of us for the better. We were at our best, and Athens was certainly at its best, when #thefreeworld was a place full of dick jokes and !@#$%*ing about NPO. And the reason we even got power wasn't even because any of us made some grand strategic power play. We weren't even really expecting to win. Not our leadership, not our memberships, not anyone. NPO screwed the pooch pretty badly and lost a lot of support in the leadup to the war and in their execution, and Athens had made some damn fine true friends that stood with us when NPO went a CnG-hunting. Archon did a masterful job of speaking for the Karma coalition and steadying some of its shakier members early on, and I certainly played a role in the coalition's success as well, but at the end of the day none of us in CnG were expecting to win even one or two weeks before the Karma war started. I wanted to beat the hegemony back then but I didn't really think it was possible. I fought them anyway, we fought them anyway, CnG fought them anyway, because we believed that they were truly wretched people, because we wanted to make a stand, and because we had nothing left to lose. It was our very lack of power that gave us the courage to stand as a group by our principles, to stop giving a crap about anything else, and those were the days when honor was more important than life or power or PR.

I miss them, and CnG as it was then is gone now and has been for quite some time. And I miss that too, a great deal. Because that is what made us great. [b]Do not confuse greatness with political power. They are not the same thing.[/b] And most of what is left on Planet Bob is jumping at shadows and paying homage to that all powerful god called PR. I never will.

o/ CnG. I remember you as you were.

and

o/ Legion, for growing some balls. Even if you all are retarded and you're really only doing this because you've hit rock bottom and have nothing left to lose.

and

o/ RushSykes, for remembering what CnG was and convincing TLR to attack Polar. I cannot speak for Olympus but if that happens I would very much like to see us helping you do that.
[/quote]

thanks....i think

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1318005770' post='2819786']
Except Invicta is going to be flamed forever. They were coming in and then suddenly lost their backbone(not surprising really, have you seen how incompetent they are?)
[/quote]

You really [i]do[/i] just make things up, don't you?

[darkfox]

The call out. Done by people who want to enter the war. This will definitely work.

[Charles Stuart]

Name of thread needs to changed from "Legion's allies" to "Legion's optional allies".

[SpoiL]

Might as well bring every alliance possible in on Legion than.

[Xineoph]

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1318215046' post='2821902']
Name of thread needs to changed from "Legion's allies" to "Legion's optional allies".
[/quote]


"Hereno's Fictional Penis"

[QUOTE]Article IV: The Good Stuff
Should one of the signatories be subject to attack, the New Sith Order and Tetris hereby agree to mutually defend one another by any means requested. This includes all manner of things like coalition channels, 3AM queries, and blaming Youwish. [B]Should one of the signatories be subject to attack for fighting due to the obligations of another treaty (which is unlikely because we're both bound to get rolled at some point for our own dumb actions), the mutual defense clause of this treaty will be considered optional.[/B][/QUOTE]


"Amazonian Sith"

[QUOTE]ARTICLE 3
Should either of these Signatories should be attacked, these Signatories are bound to aid each other reciprocally with their entire armed forces, and consequently not to make peace except conjointly and in concert. Either party may waive the defensive obligations of the other if they so choose. [B]Such mutual defense shall not be required, but is encouraged, in the case of one Signatory being attacked due to fulfilling the obligations of another treaty.[/B][/QUOTE]


"The Terra-Cotta Pact"

[QUOTE]Mutual Defense of the Brown Trading Sphere
Should any signatory alliance be subject to an act of unwarranted aggression, the other signatory alliances are obligated to provide all reasonable assistance, both military or economic, [B]unless the assaulted signatory alliance is involved in the conflict via other treaties or through the actions of another bloc. In such a case aid is voluntary.[/B][/QUOTE]


"The Fiery Sith Accords"

[QUOTE]Article 2: War and Assistance
Should either signatory be subject to an act of unwanted aggression, the other signatory is obligated to provide defense of the other through the use of military, political, and financial assistance, [B]unless the aggression is a result of other treaty obligations. In such a case, assistance is voluntary.[/B][/QUOTE]


"Treaty at Bakura"

[QUOTE]Article IV: Defense
If another party takes aggressive action against one of the undersigned, the other shall be obligated to provide moral, diplomatic, financial, and military support as requested.
[B]This obligation shall be considered annulled in the event that the aggressive action taken against a signatory was a result of another treaty obligation, and all provisions for support outlined in paragraph one will become optional.[/B][/QUOTE]

[img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/emot-v.gif[/img]

[KainIIIC]

clearly you have never heard of a non-chaining clause.