A Declaration of War

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317812450' post='2816992']
[i]"We screwed up, so we're going to play Mr. Tough Guy and hope people forget about how stupid we were.[/i]

-Europa Government

You guys are a great alliance, don't ever change a thing!
[/quote]
How does having a spy equal being stupid?

[Proest]

Mogar, you are creepy.

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1317802477' post='2816947']
[b]Just to be crystal clear on this, Mogar is on our ZI list. Aiding him will be seen as an act of war. [/b]
[/quote]

Will this be another war that you call off when yet another memember leaks your target list because I do not think that is really going to scare anyone.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317805010' post='2816957']
Heh, I'm going to aid him.
[/quote]
Not funny, wuss.

[Greg23]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1317801492' post='2816945']
The spy deserves ZI more for delaying global war than for spying imo.
[/quote]
I agree with this.

Also anyone notice that it seems Legion has a chip on their shoulder since going to war?


Admin, please let this war escalate.

[thedefrina]

Hello TPF

[Haflinger]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317805010' post='2816957']
Heh, I'm going to aid him.
[/quote]
That'll be 90M then?

[Leet Guy]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317805010' post='2816957']
Heh, I'm going to aid him.
[/quote]

Strongly considering it...

[R3nowned]

Tetris was declared on by Legion for a similar move, except that this is arguably worse, since you had direct contact with this spy. Enjoy your ZI mogar.

[o-dog]

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1317814844' post='2817012']
Will this be another war that you call off when yet another memember leaks your target list because I do not think that is really going to scare anyone.
[/quote]

New Op Sec means no more leaks like this last one. And with regard to this leak, we know where it came from and once we have verification of a couple of small facts, it will be plugged. Permanently.

Anyway, our decision to delay fighting was taken for reasons completely removed from this little circus sideshow that is Mogar.

Edited October 5, 2011 by O-Dog

[Sephiroth]

Good luck Mogar, maybe I'll send secret aid later.

[Avery du Troiseau]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1317796563' post='2816892']
As I've stated, we'd already decided not to enter the war. Mogar's posting of our (albeit horribly hidden) war plans just served to solidify that stance. So for all you out there with blueballs tonight, you can thank our resident attention whore.

As I've said, Mogar, enjoy your ZI. You've earned it.
[/quote]

What Mogar did is REALLY not all that different than what RV has done for... a while now. Or Wikileaks for that matter. Theres Nothing wrong with disseminating information you've been given. Particularly if its NOT PARTICULARLY WELL GUARDED. I mean, srs bsns guise. There's atleast five better ways to have handled a hit-list. Professional hit-men don't exactly carry around little red books with names of targets in it. Know why? 'Cause its retarded. ... Sorry that might be a tad abrasive. Is "intellectually challenged" the kosher word for that now?

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317796882' post='2816900']
Maybe the ZI is for you going nuke rogue. (RE: Your declaration on a Legion member).

...

We are benevolent.
[/quote]
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1317797022' post='2816903']
Your declaration implies enough.
[/quote]

For those who haven't seen it:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Vtptp.png[/IMG]
Seriously. You're going to song-and-dance him as a nuke rogue because of a declaration that alluded to a nuke. Do you know how long Mogar, much less the rest of CN has sent of lulzy war declarations? I mean, I know Legion spends most wars in peace mode and all, but seriously, this is nothing new.

For those of you still butthurt about this like its a dead baby joke. Allow me to explain the humor. This is a war. Not a tech raid. So calling it a tech raid is supposed to be funny in an ironic way. (See: OP)

I'm not in the Mogar fan club, or the cult of Mogar, or the Westboro Mogar Church, but this is rediculous. Legion is notorious for crap PR don't drag yourselves into the septic tank with them, Europa.

ZI Your spy.

[Sephiroth]

I've been ZIed enough times that I don't see much severity in it. Although I think Mogar should be free to continue trading with other nations and doing tech deals regardless of what Europa thinks.

[darkfox]

[quote name='Avery du Troiseau' timestamp='1317826161' post='2817085']
What Mogar did is REALLY not all that different than what RV has done for... a while now. Or Wikileaks for that matter. Theres Nothing wrong with disseminating information you've been given. Particularly if its NOT PARTICULARLY WELL GUARDED. I mean, srs bsns guise. There's atleast five better ways to have handled a hit-list. Professional hit-men don't exactly carry around little red books with names of targets in it. Know why? 'Cause its retarded. ... Sorry that might be a tad abrasive. Is "intellectually challenged" the kosher word for that now?
[/quote]

I do recall a war happening involving Polar that had a CB along the lines of "receiving spied information".

[Valtamdraugr]

Go get 'em Mogar!!

Down with Mogar!!

signed: undead fluffy

[Avery du Troiseau]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1317827480' post='2817097']
I do recall a war happening involving Polar that had a CB along the lines of "receiving spied information".
[/quote]


That's different. Waking up in the morning with an erection 3/4ths the intensity of a normal morning wood is a reason to roll Polar.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Avery du Troiseau' timestamp='1317828322' post='2817104']
That's different. Waking up in the morning with an erection 3/4ths the intensity of a normal morning wood is a reason to roll Polar.
[/quote]
And that's how the pony's won, I give up.

[memoryproblems]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1317813888' post='2817004']
How does having a spy equal being stupid?
[/quote]

Let me spell this out in words that even you could understand.

There are significant differences in the way Europa has/is handling this and the way my alliance and I would handle this. I'll elaborate on those below.

1) Generally speaking, we do not tell our general membership who we are attacking prior to 11:30 CN time the night of attack, much less link a target list.
2) If somebody leaks, the damage would be minimal due to such short notice.
3) If somebody leaks, we would find out who and we would hold [b]them[/b] accountable.
4) We wouldn't go around acting like a 'big tough guy' to cover up our failure/lack of foresight.

So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid.

If you are serious about what your doing, you expect nothing more then the absolute worst case scenario. I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.

Edited October 5, 2011 by memoryproblems

[Avery du Troiseau]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
Let me spell this out in words that even you could understand.

There are significant differences in the way Europa has/is handling this and the way my alliance and I would handle this. I'll elaborate on those below.

1) Generally speaking, we do not tell our general membership who we are attacking prior to 11:30 CN time the night of attack, much less link a target list.
2) If somebody leaks, the damage would be minimal due to such short notice.
3) If somebody leaks, we would find out who and we would hold [b]them[/b] accountable.
4) We wouldn't go around acting like a 'big tough guy' to cover up our failure/lack of foresight.

So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid.

If you are serious about what your doing, you expect nothing more then the absolute worst case scenario. I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.
[/quote]

I cosign this completely. I mean target lists are fine but Gandalf said it best: Keep it secret, keep it safe.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Avery du Troiseau' timestamp='1317831927' post='2817131']
I cosign this completely. I mean target lists are fine but Gandalf said it best: Keep it secret, keep it safe. [/quote]

What did we do for entertainment around here before Google Docs and paste-bin? I mean there's always been IRC transcripts, but you have to edit those just so to make them interesting...

Oh yeah, posting screen shots of forums. I wonder why we stopped doing that recently?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
Let me spell this out in words that even you could understand.

There are significant differences in the way Europa has/is handling this and the way my alliance and I would handle this. I'll elaborate on those below.

1) Generally speaking, we do not tell our general membership who we are attacking prior to 11:30 CN time the night of attack, much less link a target list.
2) If somebody leaks, the damage would be minimal due to such short notice.
3) If somebody leaks, we would find out who and we would hold [b]them[/b] accountable.
4) We wouldn't go around acting like a 'big tough guy' to cover up our failure/lack of foresight.

So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid.

If you are serious about what your doing, you expect nothing more then the absolute worst case scenario. I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.
[/quote]
Pretty much all of this.

Poor leadership on Europa's part. They just sacrificed a ton of PR and people are going to take them far less seriously. Sure, Mogar is going to eat ZI, but at the end of the day, it's a victory for him.

[o-dog]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid. [/quote]

We do not expect our members to leak info of this kind - we have a small, stable membership, so it is disappointing that one of us did a stupid thing. Still, that member won't be around for long.

[quote]I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.[/quote]

To assume that would be an error; when we war, we war well. A mistake has been made and the causes of the mistake have been addressed, both in tighter Op Sec and pursuing those who seek to damage us by using our private intel (internal leaks and external provocateurs).

As for the brashness, you will find most of it is not meant to be taken seriously; we know our capabilities.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
Let me spell this out in words that even you could understand.

There are significant differences in the way Europa has/is handling this and the way my alliance and I would handle this. I'll elaborate on those below.

1) Generally speaking, we do not tell our general membership who we are attacking prior to 11:30 CN time the night of attack, much less link a target list.
2) If somebody leaks, the damage would be minimal due to such short notice.
3) If somebody leaks, we would find out who and we would hold [b]them[/b] accountable.
4) We wouldn't go around acting like a 'big tough guy' to cover up our failure/lack of foresight.

So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid.

If you are serious about what your doing, you expect nothing more then the absolute worst case scenario. I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.
[/quote]

Anything else, oh wise one? Yes, we screwed up and we get that. I've said it three times now. Yes, we're trying to find the leak. The only reason we're acting like "Tough guy" is because Mogar is the one we can find right now. We're angry, we're raging, and we're going to hit everything in sight until she stops burning the damned roast.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
Let me spell this out in words that even you could understand.
[/quote]
Lol, you don't know me

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1317830716' post='2817117']
There are significant differences in the way Europa has/is handling this and the way my alliance and I would handle this. I'll elaborate on those below.

1) Generally speaking, we do not tell our general membership who we are attacking prior to 11:30 CN time the night of attack, much less link a target list.
2) If somebody leaks, the damage would be minimal due to such short notice.
3) If somebody leaks, we would find out who and we would hold [b]them[/b] accountable.
4) We wouldn't go around acting like a 'big tough guy' to cover up our failure/lack of foresight.

So Europa says they expected better from their members, it sounds all nice and peachy and admirable, but I think it has been demonstrated to be exactly what it is, stupid.

If you are serious about what your doing, you expect nothing more then the absolute worst case scenario. I guess Europa isn't serious about maximising their military ability, I guess they are more intent upon going around and telling people to 'come at them, bro', and hoping the brashness acts as a deterrent.
[/quote]
As you know by now, the attack had been canceled before the target list was leaked. Europa has two reasons for being pissed:
1) They have a spy.
2) Mogar accepted spied info and acted on it.

The second thing is reason enough to war someone over, that's nothing new.

All the other stuff you mentioned is irrelevant to this situation.

[Elrich von Richt]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1317833404' post='2817139']
Pretty much all of this.

Poor leadership on Europa's part. They just sacrificed a ton of PR and people are going to take them far less seriously. Sure, Mogar is going to eat ZI, but at the end of the day, it's a victory for him.
[/quote]

As shocking as this is for me the say, I think I'm actually going to agree with HeroofTime for once...