Announcement from NG and UPN

[Mompson]

Great to see it resolved.

[Seerow]

So the UPN fund goes to waste? See if I try to help either of you two alliances again.

Next Project: Get people to start bidding to get a cage match between NPO and Sparta started.

[Buzz Lightyear]

[quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1317604159' post='2814308']
Sure, NG won on the battlefield, but got what UPN offered them. It cost UPN, but they win some points here; they stood up for themselves.

It's better than not taking the battlefield and just bending over and giving an alliance $15mil/250tech.
[/quote]
i guess youre just that dense. we chose to let UPN get off with paying 6mil. its not like they won some huge victory cuz they only paid the 6mil. we could have made them pay more if we wanted. So it has nothing to do with UPN holding their ground and only paying what they wanted to pay, and everything to do with us feeling like weve done enough damage to them to call it even

i dont feel like finding your original ridiculous post so i just quoted this one

Edited October 3, 2011 by Buzz Lightyear

[zachart]

[quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1317605472' post='2814329']
So the UPN fund goes to waste? See if I try to help either of you two alliances again.

Next Project: Get people to start bidding to get a cage match between NPO and Sparta started.
[/quote]
IKR i was gonna release my calendars too

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1317604752' post='2814318']
Hey man, your hard-on for NSO is showing. But anyway, no UPN don't get any points at all really. Their MoD screwed up, NG approached them, UPN screwed up with their offer, NG attacked them and $%&@ed them up for a couple of days, and then decided that 30M - 800k NS = 6M, and UPN paid it. Saying that they got away with only paying what they offered ignores all that NS they just lost, NS that costs money to replace. They didn't negotiate down, they got beaten down and those doing the beating decided to let them off a bit lighter than what they had demanded pre-war. Hopefully you get what I'm saying, but then again you are Jaiar.
[/quote]
Two alliances have a dispute, one alliance makes an offer to resolve it and the other says its not good enough. The alliance who thinks its not good enough declares war on them, then decides the defending alliance's offer is good enough after a few days of fighting. Both alliances took damage from the war, so I don't think damage UPN took as they were causing damage to NG really counts as them paying $24m in reps. In a defensive position, getting the outcome out of the war you offered beforehand isn't a total loss. I'm pretty sure NG lost money from the war overall, so saying UPN losing NS as they also reduce Non Grata's NS counts as them paying off 24m in reps doesn't really make sense. UPN stuck to their $6m figure they offered before the war, so for UPN to only pay what they offered isn't as big a loss as you make it out to be.

Although I doubt you'll be able to understand there is such a thing as defending against an attacking alliance without it being a complete loss, even if you can't get the attacking alliance in a position where they would surrender to the defending alliance. NG only won what they had already been offered before the fighting began (they really didn't win anything out of fighting other than war experience), so its more of a situation where both alliances decide its a fight not worth continuing, rather than one losing badly against the other.

[Seerow]

[quote name='zachart' timestamp='1317606066' post='2814339']
IKR i was gonna release my calendars too
[/quote]

You can still sell those calendars. That thread proved if nothing else there is a thriving market for CN based calendars that is not being filled. You already have a set of preorders.

[Buzz Lightyear]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1317606075' post='2814341']
Two alliances have a dispute, one alliance makes an offer to resolve it and the other says its not good enough. The alliance who thinks its not good enough declares war on them, then decides the defending alliance's offer is good enough after a few days of fighting. Both alliances took damage from the war, so I don't think damage UPN took as they were causing damage to NG really counts as them paying $24m in reps. In a defensive position, getting the outcome out of the war you offered beforehand isn't a total loss. I'm pretty sure NG lost money from the war overall, so saying UPN losing NS as they also reduce Non Grata's NS counts as them paying off 24m in reps doesn't really make sense. UPN stuck to their $6m figure they offered before the war, so for UPN to only pay what they offered isn't as big a loss as you make it out to be.

Although I doubt you'll be able to understand there is such a thing as defending against an attacking alliance without it being a complete loss, even if you can't get the attacking alliance in a position where they would surrender to the defending alliance. NG only won what they had already been offered before the fighting began (they really didn't win anything out of fighting other than war experience), so its more of a situation where both alliances decide its a fight not worth continuing, rather than one losing badly against the other.
[/quote]
ive noticed you tend to change your tune once someone calls you out on an idiotic comment. U switch it up to something u can actually try to argue, and its almost a complete 180, instead of trying to defend ur original twisted point of view

[William Blake]

[quote name='zachart' timestamp='1317606066' post='2814339']
IKR i was gonna release my calendars too
[/quote]
!@#$, start the war back up so we can get the calenders.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1317606358' post='2814347']
ive noticed you tend to change your tune once someone calls you out on an idiotic comment. U switch it up to something u can actually try to argue, and its almost a complete 180, instead of trying to defend ur original twisted point of view
[/quote]
From the start I said UPN didn't win the war, only an outcome desirable for them. So I'm not sure how I switched my point of view or what you think my original comment was, I just clarified it since some seem to see things so black and white that "winning an outcome desirable for them" means winning the war. UPN never had a chance of winning from the start, all they could really hope for when fighting was to not pay above the rep amount they were offering. NG still won the overall war from my point of view though, due to UPN surrendering to them and not the other way around.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Methrage

[zachart]

[quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1317606515' post='2814351']
!@#$, start the war back up so we can get the calenders.
[/quote]
lol
I'm thinking of selling them now

[Banksy]

You heard it here first, unless the reps are extravagant you haven't actually won the war.

Filing this precedent away for later.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

I don't really understand - despite several explanations here - the thought process behind the whole affair now. Since you were fighting for your permanent protectorate (let's call it that) after they had been attacked and you rejected their initial six million dollars in reparations as outrageous, I don't see why it is more acceptable now.

Unless you're going with: "but we saved their honor by militarily defeating those scoundrels in the UPN". Because that seems to be the only extra value your protectorate is getting from this deal.

I mean, if it's satisfying to both parties, hail and all that.

[Ellis]

So, shortly after Polar doesn't come in, the war stops...

But seriously, congratulations NG on your victory, and good luck rebuilding, UPN.

[Buzz Lightyear]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1317611181' post='2814407']
I don't really understand - despite several explanations here - the thought process behind the whole affair now. Since you were fighting for your permanent protectorate (let's call it that) after they had been attacked and you rejected their initial six million dollars in reparations as outrageous, I don't see why it is more acceptable now.

Unless you're going with: "but we saved their honor by militarily defeating those scoundrels in the UPN". Because that seems to be the only extra value your protectorate is getting from this deal.

I mean, if it's satisfying to both parties, hail and all that.
[/quote]
Well, i think the whole point of the war was to smack them up and let them know its not cool to mess with our protectorates and to be a deterrent to anyone else that wants to give it a shot. The $6mil was prob for !@#$% and gigs

[Trigger]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1317613326' post='2814429']
Well, i think the whole point of the war was to smack them up and let them know its not cool to mess with our protectorates and to be a deterrent to anyone else that wants to give it a shot. The $6mil was prob for !@#$% and gigs
[/quote]

Maybe I'm wrong (not gov), but I just assumed the original offer was for both reps AND penalties. As far as I'm concerned they have now paid the reps and the penalties were taking in NS instead of cash. But honestly... who really cares and why is this even being debated?

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Buzz Lightyear' timestamp='1317613326' post='2814429']
Well, i think the whole point of the war was to smack them up and let them know its not cool to mess with our protectorates and to be a deterrent to anyone else that wants to give it a shot. The $6mil was prob for !@#$% and gigs
[/quote]

This is what I thought went down... from the status of educated observer, of course.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Trigger' timestamp='1317617370' post='2814472']
But honestly... who really cares and why is this even being debated?
[/quote]

Because the chattering class hasnt found anything new to chatter about yet.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Sigrun Vapneir

[Zoomzoomzoom]

Let us all be friends again then.

[Micheal Malone]

Congrats to NG for a [s]$9mil/50 tech $6mil[/s] gain in reps, and whatever we managed to steal.

Too bad I missed out on all the fighting, guess I better go raid someone or find a 1v1.

Edit:
Sadly I thought the surrendered guy was above 15k, I was mistaken. Now I really want to fight. DAMN YOU PEACEMODE!

Edited October 3, 2011 by Micheal Malone

[iamthey]

Well congrats on peace to UPN, and victory to NG, but I do take exception to one aspect of this peace. Non Grata you just rewarded their failure to call in allies, it now pays politically, and strategically to bore us all and this is how people are going to keep playing it unless bilateral wars start to get real- no mercy .

Edited October 3, 2011 by iamthey

[ChesterStevensDevonn]

lol, glad this is over with >_> rofl

[Mogar]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1317622964' post='2814508']
Well congrats on peace to UPN, and victory to NG, but I do take exception to one aspect of this peace. Non Grata you just rewarded their failure to call in allies, it now pays politically, and strategically to bore us all and this is how people are going to keep playing it unless bilateral wars start to get real- no mercy .
[/quote]
>implying we'll actually have a statistically close war ever again like GW2.

[Letum]

[quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1317622964' post='2814508']
Well congrats on peace to UPN, and victory to NG, but I do take exception to one aspect of this peace. Non Grata you just rewarded their failure to call in allies, it now pays politically, and strategically to bore us all and this is how people are going to keep playing it unless bilateral wars start to get real- no mercy .
[/quote]

It's far from the first time where non-escalation actually means less damage for the weaker alliance. By sheer virtue of there being more people/fronts involved and grudges to be exercised, a global war will almost always take longer and be more damaging for the alliance in question than a limited one. Add to that the destruction of their power-sphere and the reduction in any post-war support/aid, and it's easy to see how, from a materialistic perspective at least, it can be attractive to stay it alone.

That sets the threshold for not "rewarding the failure to call in allies" quite high. In order to make it "not pay", you would have to dish out some pretty harsh treatment that hurts more than everything I mentioned above, and that means going into ZI, harsh reps or even disbandment territory. Now, casting aside moral concerns for a minute, that brings up another problem; if you set up a reputation for harsh action like that, then escalation becomes even less attractive, since your opponent will expect you to treat everyone harshly. Really, the only point where you can goad people into conflict via this strategy is by dishing out punishment so extreme that they have nothing left to lose (or hate you so much they want to go down all guns blazing).

It's a different story, of course, if your opponent makes their decision on who to bring into the conflict on honour or fun - but if they are motivated only by how big your stick is, global war will always have a bigger one.

[Jens of the desert]

[quote name='Melancholy Culkin' timestamp='1317583550' post='2813981']
Yeah, UPN really did win the war. Nevermind losing 800,000 NS or anything!
[/quote]
It's mostly infra loss, they'll buy it back with their awesome warchests.

Also it's 700k....

Edited October 3, 2011 by Jens of the desert

[Daimos]

I sensible resolution to the war. Much better than I thought. Kudos to both alliance.