Rep Repayment Plan

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1317680438' post='2814821']
Honestly, I do not know about any unwritten agreement about it not expanding.[/quote]

It was more so a sentiment than any agreement. I was talking to Titan during the war and we both expressed how we didn't want to see the war expand iirc.

[quote]That, to my knowledge, was never known by anyone outside of SF. Most, iirc, thought Xiph came up with the terms and this, again to my knowledge, is the first time that it was mentioned that Xiph said the reps were to high.
[/quote]
[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1317680757' post='2814824']
The hell?
[/quote]

I made a pretty serious gaffe there. We had a bunch of terms on top of the reparations to which Xiph expressed that they were too much.* My apologies for any confusion there.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1317671393' post='2814741']
Bud, i love ya. but if you were acting like a complete retard i'd walk away from ya in a heartbeat. Treaties need an anti-retard clause..lets call it the UPN clause

@SOM. Something ive wondered since you guys said you wanted reps. Why? and why so much? Because of an ODP?(hit me up on IRC if you gotta)
[/quote]
No you wouldnt Wicked. You would stand by your ally till it was done and then chew ass in the back channels. The biggest thing we can count on in Poseidon is that no one leaves the war early. We make sure when its time to get out everyone can get out at the same time. BiPolar was a great example of that.

@SOM I was very much involved in those discussions and NEVER once did I ever get an inkling from Goose he would let this come to a close. Goose was adamant about his point of ODP. Once again to those laying a lot of this at Xiphs feet after multiple discussions with Goose and those whom were close to him, it was his choice to stretch this conflict out. Goose was unwilling to let this go and fortunatly some cooler heads came in to play and a deal was made. Yes your top tier was taking a beating but I call BS when you say that if it would have closed out in another week or so differently.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1317739203' post='2816080']
No you wouldnt Wicked. You would stand by your ally till it was done and then chew ass in the back channels. The biggest thing we can count on in Poseidon is that no one leaves the war early. We make sure when its time to get out everyone can get out at the same time. BiPolar was a great example of that.
[/quote]
If you pulled the move CSN did on DT? yeah..... you'd be warned, then left buddy, I do hope you would listen to our initial concerns first though.

[Buds The Man]

[quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1317739628' post='2816087']
If you pulled the move CSN did on DT? yeah..... you'd be warned, then left buddy, I do hope you would listen to our initial concerns first though.
[/quote]

We would have listened but that is neither here nor there. Im sorry pansy you like casualties to much to exit early .

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1317739203' post='2816080']
@SOM I was very much involved in those discussions and NEVER once did I ever get an inkling from Goose he would let this come to a close. Goose was adamant about his point of ODP. Once again to those laying a lot of this at Xiphs feet after multiple discussions with Goose and those whom were close to him, it was his choice to stretch this conflict out. Goose was unwilling to let this go and fortunatly some cooler heads came in to play and a deal was made. Yes your top tier was taking a beating but I call BS when you say that if it would have closed out in another week or so differently.
[/quote]

Clearly you weren't privy to our private discussions; clearly you also weren't privy to our internal morale. Had the week progressed onward, I have absolutely no doubt minds would have been changed. No doubt whatsoever.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1317746892' post='2816179']
Clearly you weren't privy to our private discussions; clearly you also weren't privy to our internal morale. Had the week progressed onward, I have absolutely no doubt minds would have been changed. No doubt whatsoever.
[/quote]

What goes on in CSN is what goes on in CSN. What is projected outside of CSN can be quite different than what is going on inside CSN. At the time, those outside of CSN had no doubt whatsoever that the war would drag on and on and on because of CSN, this most likely included Legacy. I am fairly certain that had DT (or Bud for that matter) had any inkling that CSN would collapse within a week, we would have fought on and watched CSN collapse and laughed at it. We certainly would not have given up reps.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1317747381' post='2816194']
What goes on in CSN is what goes on in CSN. What is projected outside of CSN can be quite different than what is going on inside CSN. At the time, those outside of CSN had no doubt whatsoever that the war would drag on and on and on because of CSN, this most likely included Legacy. I am fairly certain that had DT (or Bud for that matter) had any inkling that CSN would collapse within a week, we would have fought on and watched CSN collapse and laughed at it. We certainly would not have given up reps.
[/quote]

I'm going to hop off the point since now it's just going in circles, but yes, I agree, public perception was totally different than the actual informed perspective. Likewise it is entirely speculative. However, given the dwindling support of a bulk of our membership, of our allies, and even our government in part, it's hardly "BS" to posit the distinct possibility that things would have ended much differently. Am I saying reparations would have been off the table necessarily and we would have changed our way of mind at the time? No, especially given the bitterness that happened after the fact (even if we had taken reparations off the table mid-war, while things would have been potentially better, the damage was already done in the peace talks regarding what was said and what was felt).

I'm also not saying CSN would have collapsed within the week either; what I'm saying is that to say we, ourselves, thought we had the capacity to hold DT & LOSS at war indefinitely is absurd (while we would have continued the fight, it would have just gotten even more out of control, if you can believe it). In all reality, given the state of our military "unreadiness" (which was amply displayed during the war), we were well aware of our own deteriorating military situation (and it was dropping rather fast). We weren't interested in bringing in our allies (and I can only imagine that they weren't very interested to partake in the frivolous state of affairs either). And while we were stubborn as $%&@, the elephant in the room had to be addressed sooner or later.