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UPN Individual Surrender Terms


Derwood1

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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317402594' post='2812774']
NoR is a relatively new alliance remember? We're all supposed to not hold anything against them for past misdeeds. Apparently that's a one way street?
[/quote]

Since NoR's reformation, I have had several occasions where I have had to approach Xiphosis. He was a complete jackass and a would-be swaggering bully on every single occasion.

In one of these conversations, Xiphosis was the one who dragged up what took place during the UjW. What made it especially funny was that he did so immediately after saying that he wasn't going to bring up the past. (Seriously....the very next sentence.)

If you wish to point fingers, start with GOD's leader. We've done nothing to provoke him except to ask for him to be reasonable on a couple of occasions.

You are either very much misinformed or lying through your teeth.

Since Hal brought up the original 'Martens v. GOD' thread, I went and had a look. The misinformation began on the very first page when an RIA member said:

[quote]You nuked GOD while they were in the middle of surrendering despite vowing not to use nuclear first strikes in the war....[/quote]

Now, I happen to have been a high-ranking member of NoV's military at the time this happened. In fact, I was one of several high-ranking members who launched those first strikes. We did so because surrender negotiations had stalled, and we believed that our opponents were simply giving themselves a bit of a breather before resuming the fight. We figured a nice kick in the nuts might hurry things along. And whaddayaknow....it worked.

So we -- NoV's High Command -- gave the launch order. We did so in direct contravention of orders given to us by NoV's Kaiser who, by the way, was [b]not[/b] Kaiser Martens. Martens resumed the leadership that evening, after the launch and after many, many heated arguments between NoV's military and government leadership.

So yes, you read that correctly. Kaiser Martens was not leading Norden Verein when the first nukes flew. He had nothing to do with it.

Almost four years later, and each time I see this nonsense repeated I wonder why nobody has bothered to do a bit of fact-checking.



And with that I depart, since I really don't care about the surrender terms offered to UPN except that I hope they NG make a great deal of money. Also, I don't think this thread needs to be de-railed any further in order to correct four-year-old disinformation that continues to be spread by Xiphosis and/or his credulous allies.

Anyone wanting more information is welcome to look me up and ask. (My bet is that no one will, and in about three months this will have to be explained all over again.)

So, to help bring us back on track...

NG is an alliance of extortionists, bad people, [OOC]running people from the game[/OOC], make baby Jesus cry blah blah blah blah blah.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1317406614' post='2812812']
Since Hal brought up the original 'Martens v. GOD' thread, I went and had a look. The misinformation began on the very first page when an RIA member said:

[quote]You nuked GOD while they were in the middle of surrendering despite vowing not to use nuclear first strikes in the war....[/quote]

Now, I happen to have been a high-ranking member of NoV's military at the time this happened. In fact, I was one of several high-ranking members who launched those first strikes. We did so because surrender negotiations had stalled, and we believed that our opponents were simply giving themselves a bit of a breather before resuming the fight. We figured a nice kick in the nuts might hurry things along. And whaddayaknow....it worked.[/quote]

It did strike me as odd that quote..."in the middle of surrendering"...either GOD had surrendered, or they hadn't. It's an off/on switch, not a dimmer switch. At best they can claim you violated an informal cease-fire. Thanks for the additional perspective, it gives a much better picture.

FYI: I was ordering first strikes, last strikes, and any other strike you can think of against NpO during that war. I was such a bad man. :smug:

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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317402594' post='2812774']
NoR is a relatively new alliance remember? We're all supposed to not hold anything against them for past misdeeds. Apparently that's a one way street?
[/quote]
Then why do you?

NG fair terms hopefully you get what you need out of this and then we can all move on to bigger and better things.

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[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1317369563' post='2812609']
I will defer to your greater knowledge and experience when it comes to leaving for greener pastures when the going gets tough.
[/quote]


Not sure where you're trying to go with this but I don't *think* I've left any alliance when the going's got tough. I'm surprised you haven't though given the personal opinions about you I've heard from various Polar members. Anyways good try!.

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[quote name='Buds The Man' timestamp='1317409314' post='2812840']
Then why do you?

NG fair terms hopefully you get what you need out of this and then we can all move on to bigger and better things.
[/quote]

Why do I hold things against NoR? I don't, frankly. NoR has made it pretty public knowledge they have nothing but contempt for RIA, but the feeling isn't really reciprocated and we have and have had ex-NoR and ex-NoV in our alliance.

As for Ashoka: why did you leave out this part?

[quote name='Delta1212']
You nuked GOD while they were in the middle of surrendering despite vowing not to use nuclear first strikes in the war [b]and then had Xiphosis ZI'd at the bequest of an OOC stalker of his. They now request that you reroll in order to get off of their ZI list.

Issues?[/b][/quote]

If you're going to dredge up quotes from more than 2 and a half years ago, BEFORE NoR had even reformed, why the selective edits?

Edited by James Dahl
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[quote name='Franz Ferdinand' timestamp='1317402448' post='2812772']
Something tells me that the nation which surrendered to the Purple Sphere will be fasttracked on the slimming program which Non Grata are currently running.
[/quote]

i guess you could say that.... :3

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Man, NG, you are [b][i][u]extorting[/u][/i][/b] those poor UPN nations that just want to be left alone and not fight for their alliance. You should be ashamed for such [b][i][u]extortion[/u][/i][/b].


Maybe if I say the word [u][i][b]extortion[/b][/i][/u] enough people will believe it!

Edited by Melancholy Culkin
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[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1317383267' post='2812667']
I'd hardly call it fighting... none of my targets are fighting back :(
[/quote]

I got nuked today. Mad?

edit: However, I find it strange that he didn't GA me afterward and used his spies to target my cruise missiles. (srs)

Edited by Artigo
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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317410144' post='2812851']
If you're going to dredge up quotes from more than 2 and a half years ago, BEFORE NoR had even reformed, why the selective edits?[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. A confession of guilt? Affirmation that Delta was right?

"You nuked GOD while they were in the middle of surrendering despite vowing not to use nuclear first strikes..."

That was addressed. Xiph may have known what he was up to, perhaps even Delta, but NoV high command weren't mind readers. War was ongoing. They made a decision based upon the information at hand, one that went against direct orders. It's been time to get over it since long before 2009, when the matter was finally "settled". Why complain about selective quoting now? Is this a debate of the Historical Society?

"...then had Xiphosis ZI'd at the bequest of an OOC stalker of his."

Denied by all concerned. Wouldn't be the first time Xiph lied about something or distorted it in his favor.

"They now request that you reroll in order to get off of their ZI list."

Delta appears to be supporting PZI perhaps even EZI had Martens kept coming back as himself. You sure you want to go here?

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Read the thread yourself: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=48520

In fact everyone should read that thread. This should stop people cherrypicking quotes hoping no context is ever brought into the discussion.

Edited by James Dahl
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[quote name='Avery du Troiseau' timestamp='1317409202' post='2812836']
Has anyone mentioned NPO yet? I'm not sure this thread has NPO Bash/love.
[/quote]

This fight between NG and UPN isn't over a really fail-tastic raid. No, this is auditions for who will be the next ODP partner of the NPO's. Clearly.

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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317417716' post='2812922']
Read the thread yourself: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=48520

In fact everyone should read that thread. This should stop people cherrypicking quotes hoping no context is ever brought into the discussion.[/quote]

I was the one who brought up the thread to begin with... :facepalm:

That thread makes Xiph look horrible and Delta look like his lackey. It lacks the additional context provided by zigzog who in this very thread explained in detail what really happened and why and it's clear in 2009 that Delta didn't have the whole story. I only referenced it because of the OP in which Kaiser Martens gave a summary of the events of 2007.

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[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1317425406' post='2813011']
I was the one who brought up the thread to begin with... :facepalm:

That thread makes Xiph look horrible and Delta look like his lackey. It lacks the additional context provided by zigzog who in this very thread explained in detail what really happened and why and it's clear in 2009 that Delta didn't have the whole story. I only referenced it because of the OP in which Kaiser Martens gave a summary of the events of 2007.
[/quote]

2007, 2009 ? :facepalm: and we all wonder why things are dying slowly.....

Good luck to UPN, anything that involves Xander has a high probability of being lulzy and thats terrific in my book. Thanks for doing something NG!

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[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1317410144' post='2812851']
If you're going to dredge up quotes from more than 2 and a half years ago, BEFORE NoR had even reformed, why the selective edits?
[/quote]

Because I have no clue what it's about. And I don't really care, either. Enough people have told me it's a lie that I believe it to be a lie.

Hell, notice that on that very same page you see Slayer defending Martens. If you knew anything at all, you would instantly suspect something was wrong with the accusation being made.

I guess what I'm trying to say is....

[u]You weren't around[/u], f-tard, so I honestly have no idea how you believe you can possibly have one goddamn clue as to what you're talking about. For now, though, your desire to defend your ally four years after the fact with 'information' that is complete nonsense is noted. Thank you for making a complete ass of yourself. Again. Truly it is a skill.

If you wish to continue to dredge up two or four year old arguments, go have a chat with Xiphosis. If you catch him when he hasn't taken his anti-paranoia medication he can really get a good froth going. The two of you can sit around and spin complete lies and then congratulate each other for being right.

But in the meantime, bask in the superior morality of your pal, Xychosis:

[quote]Our terms for the end of your PZI are minimal, the end of your IC character and nothing more. I entrusted to TPF the destruction of Norden Verein and did my best to aid in seeing to it happen (both providing a CB and offering my military existence assistance, which was refused) and assumed they would see to your continued ZI. Given that this did not happen, I took up the slack.[/quote]

And now we're done. Take this argument elsewhere, stfu or go eat a knife. Whatever it takes for you to understand that this is neither the time nor the place to re-hash four-year-old events that, as I noted, [b]you know absolutely nothing about[/b].

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[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1317426075' post='2813018']
Has anyone ever charged reps for individual surrender terms before?

This war is just so ... full of [i]interesting[/i] precedents.
[/quote]

I believe it was also done in Unjust War and Bi-Polar. It was mentioned up thread somewhere.

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