WHY HATE THE LEGION ?

[Ellis]

[quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1316703594' post='2805926']
You took on half their reps Ellis, but they have sent you 11 packages of 3m 50 tech since to repay you
[/quote]

No, that's how much we've received so far. I can't be bothered to consult my spreadsheets and stuff, but we're getting the rest as pure tech.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1316721863' post='2806117']
No, that's how much we've received so far. I can't be bothered to consult my spreadsheets and stuff, but we're getting the rest as pure tech.
[/quote]
I should hope so too, fact still remains, your 60 man alliance paid reps faster than their 200+ man alliance, and to top it off, they are not rushing to make sure you are paid back.

[justavictim82]

[quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1316704320' post='2805935']
Legion. The alliance made of fail... Since... Always? As long as I've been around anyway.

I watched them fail again and again, wondering and hoping that they'd get better, but as the years passed, they've arguably gotten worse. I really don't understand why MASH picked them to merge into... Valhalla would've been a better choice
[/quote]

I can tell why it was the Legion and not Valhalla.... It's because MASH was treated like crap by pretty much everyone on purple except for the Legion. Ask anyone in Valhalla that's been around more than 2 years why MASH was never accepted into Posideon.

Edit:clarity

Edited September 22, 2011 by justavictim82

[The Pansy]

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1316731512' post='2806239']
I can tell why it was the Legion and not Valhalla.... It's because MASH was treated like crap by pretty much everyone on purple except for the Legion. Ask anyone in Valhalla that's been around more than 2 years why MASH was never accepted into Posideon.

Edit:clarity
[/quote]
Because you didn't meet the colour requirement, this was passed on to Legion by myself on 3 separate occasions.
You had below 60%.

We asked for a commitment to start turning people over and then we'd get the ball rolling, no change.
We were asked again by Legion how to get you in, same answer, no change.
A third time we were asked...... no change.

I know this is true, because I was the one who suggested it.

[justavictim82]

[quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1316732454' post='2806251']
Because you didn't meet the colour requirement, this was passed on to Legion by myself on 3 separate occasions.
You had below 60%.

We asked for a commitment to start turning people over and then we'd get the ball rolling, no change.
We were asked again by Legion how to get you in, same answer, no change.
A third time we were asked...... no change.

I know this is true, because I was the one who suggested it.
[/quote]

Yes you are right Pansy.. it was your suggestion. I read the logs and was there for the process (at least for the second and third attempt). What you are wrong on is that at one point... I believe before the third attempt... We were close to 65% and valhalla still threw a hissy fit. It was all about politics back then before Karma and because we were not allied or liked by the NPO we were blocked. It wasn't just us. Why do you think Poseidon fell apart?

[The Pansy]

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1316733701' post='2806270']
Yes you are right Pansy.. it was your suggestion. I read the logs and was there for the process (at least for the second and third attempt). What you are wrong on is that at one point... I believe before the third attempt... We were close to 65% and valhalla still threw a hissy fit. It was all about politics back then before Karma and because we were not allied or liked by the NPO we were blocked. It wasn't just us. Why do you think Poseidon fell apart?
[/quote]
Being the Valhalla rep for that, and the Valhallan vice regent at the time, I can assure you we threw no hissy fit.
I more think of months of trying with you, everybody just got bored.
I know exactly why Poseidon fell apart (as it was, it still exists by the way, and is doing just fine), I, like many, were amazed it lasted as long as it did tbh.

Edit: I will say, I think I can remember that we might have asked for 70%, as the min was 60%. (basically a commitment to maintain over 70%)
I can't check that due to those boards being no more.

Edited September 22, 2011 by The Pansy

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316655313' post='2805598']
I don't understand what's revisionist about my comment. I've seen and been the subject of many a "You weren't here for GWIII --GASP-- be gone welp!" type of responses.

I wasn't really asking why the Legion is disliked as I understand, but don't agree with, the reasons. I was asking why someone so new received such a harsh response to an honest question.

As for recent events I've explained my contention on the whole PM mode subject. But going back to the statement I just made; I do understand your point of view. You needed us to more fully enter the field of battle, and we did not. I really can understand your disappointment in that, but NSO as a sovereign alliance entered into battle of it's own volition. As such NSO and only NSO were responsible for the damage that occurred as a result. While we were in the same coalition we held no treaty with you, and unfortunately our obligations didn't match your expectations. Warning I'm going to over-simplify again - things didn't go the way you wanted so you're taking it out on us.

Instead of that how about this? Try to realize that war is hell and a lot of times outside of your control. With that knowledge you could perhaps redirect your considerable anger towards something more useful than just bashing The Legion over the head every chance you get. Maybe like making sure you line up on the other side of us in the next war. I'll even go so far as to give you my word that I won't go to PM. Despite your contention that all of the Legion stayed in PM for the entire war I (and a hell of a lot of other Legionnaires) fought in the last war and I'll make sure that I'm there for the next one. That way you'll have as fair a shot at me as anyone.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Thank you for demonstrating that you have no idea what any of this is about. NSO does not care that it took a lot of damage. We knew that would happen when we went in. Our problem is with Legion cowering in peace mode and sabotaging coalition efforts with its own stupidity.

Everyone knows I hate Invicta, but I will say that fought well in that war and they fought with all their heart. I must give them that much, and I can respect them for that. Other alliances, like NADC, who I do not find impressive, fought. Maybe not as well as Invicta, but they didn't hide in peace mode, nor did they say "we won't hit MK or Umbrella."[/color]

[Sigrun Vapneir]

I voted dont mind. Seriously. The Legion never did anything to me.

That said, without having any personal feelings about y'all, a lot of the criticism you are hearing here seems spot on. Legion hasnt seemed like a healthy alliance in a very long time. (I am one of those old enough to remember pre-Viceroy Legion, and I genuinely liked it, but it is not the Legion that exists today.)

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316665087' post='2805715']
The extended PM tactic was just that, a tactic meant to try and gain an advantage in a losing war.
[/quote]

Fair enough, in a sense, peace mode is a legitimite tool and lots of people have used it.

However in this case I have to say whomever was in charge of your forces and came up with this 'tactic' as it was used, was an incompetent fool. Using PM to recover from anarchy and regroup your forces (so they return to the fight) is a tactic, and a very good one. Holding a counter-strike force in PM when you anticipate an attack is a tactic, whether or not it is a good one is more open to debate. Putting the majority of your forces in PM and leaving them there for the duration, however... I dont see how that has any tactical value at all. And it appears your allies agree with me on that. So far it appears the only ally that was NOT upset by your performance was Polaris - the one that you didnt actually enter for.

It's got to be particularly galling now for the portion of the Legion that actually did come out and fight, to get tarred with this broad brush unfairly. I can understand that.

But if you are serious about rehabilitating a reputation that has taken as much damage as this one, you do have your work cut out for you. Kzoppistan's post is very pertinent.

[Locke]

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1316731512' post='2806239']
I can tell why it was the Legion and not Valhalla.... It's because MASH was treated like crap by pretty much everyone on purple except for the Legion. Ask anyone in Valhalla that's been around more than 2 years why MASH was never accepted into Posideon.

Edit:clarity
[/quote]
I didn't treat M*A*S*H like crap.
/me waves to Flonker.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1316692986' post='2805847']
No you didn't



Considering we took 501mil of your reps, I certainly hope it was more than that.
[/quote]

To clarify when I said reps I was referring only to what we owed directly back to GOONs. I'm aware of what we owe you and I'm currently working on getting that paid back.


[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1316669086' post='2805765']
Clarity 1b which was based on your alliance size when you only wanted 500m. Your gov accepted the 1b then through some twist invicta picks up 500m.

Know it before you talk it. I know I was there, I talked to Watcher personally about bringing it to Gov and took the reply as well as totem's view on it, who in fact gave the final word of 1b.

2b (2.47) was the entire coalition rep bill.
[/quote]

Know it before I talk it? The "twist" as you put it was an agreement between Invicta and ourselves so try and take your own advice sometime.


[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1316673483' post='2805796']
Yet more reason Legion is just frankly pissing me off. Invicta goes ahead and covers 500m of Legion reps with the statement from legion they will pay it back on at a non disclosed time. I found out it has been paid back.

For paying 500m of Legion reps, Invicta has been paid back with 11 slots of 3m/50 tech for a general realized 66m and wait for it... the debt is paid!?!

You don't deserve the good will Invicta has given you. They took more damage than you, they are 1/4 your size and they paid more reps than you, faster than you and your return was just over 10%.

PATHETIC

So I was told the debt isn't yet paid off.. this showing is still pathetic.
[/quote]

Why the hell are you pissed off? We're not even treaty partners anymore. Just as a reminder this is post-Karma you know where NPO minds their own damn business!?

FYI we just started repayment as per our talks with Invicta and we've sent the equivalent of 34 slots of payment. So I'll refer you, again, to your own advice "Know it before you talk it".

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1316743627' post='2806409']
I voted dont mind. Seriously. The Legion never did anything to me.

That said, without having any personal feelings about y'all, a lot of the criticism you are hearing here seems spot on. Legion hasnt seemed like a healthy alliance in a very long time. (I am one of those old enough to remember pre-Viceroy Legion, and I genuinely liked it, but it is not the Legion that exists today.)

Fair enough, in a sense, peace mode is a legitimite tool and lots of people have used it.

Putting the majority of your forces in PM and leaving them there for the duration, however... [u]I dont see how that has any tactical value at all[/u]. [/quote]

The purpose behind it was to make the war one of extended attrition. By extending the war into the marathon it was the other side would tire to the point were their effectiveness was impacted. It did have some limited effect in that our upper tiers were able to hit MK after their had been in almost continual war for over a month.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1316743627' post='2806409']And it appears your allies agree with me on that. So far it appears the only ally that was NOT upset by your performance was Polaris - the one that you didnt actually enter for. It's got to be particularly galling now for the portion of the Legion that actually did come out and fight, to get tarred with this broad brush unfairly. I can understand that.
[/quote]

You're right on how our allies have responded to us using extended PM. NSO in particular has made their thoughts known, and going further the vast majority of the OWF has resoundingly rejected the concept. Just as the opposite of Extended PM, Eternal War, has been rejected, but unlike NPO it won't take a Karma II to convince us to change our ways.

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1316743627' post='2806409']
But if you are serious about rehabilitating a reputation that has taken as much damage as this one, you do have your work cut out for you. Kzoppistan's post is very pertinent.
[/quote]

Hmmm, I'm going to have to pass on taking advice from the former leader of Ordo Paradoxia. Rouges aren't very high on my respect list.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316752721' post='2806531']
Why the hell are you pissed off? We're not even treaty partners anymore. Just as a reminder this is post-Karma you know where NPO minds their own damn business!?
[/quote]

What the?
You just dont get it.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1316753975' post='2806543']
What the?
You just dont get it.
[/quote]

I have a feeling I'm about to. In fact I think I hear jackboots outside my door right now.

[Varianz]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316753854' post='2806541']
The purpose behind it was to make the war one of extended attrition. By extending the war into the marathon it was the other side would tire to the point were their effectiveness was impacted. It did have some limited effect in that our upper tiers were able to hit MK after their had been in almost continual war for over a month.
[/quote]
And guess what, that strategy is just as dumb now as it was then. [i]They outnumbered us you blithering idiot.[/i] Going into PM en masse only meant that those who were caught out of it were staggered and slaughtered until they couldn't fight anywhere above 15k. Those who made it into PM were thus outnumbered all the more. Meanwhile, the mid and lower tiers burned because we were fighting an enemy with an unlimited bankroll from those same upper tiers you refused to engage, while we got no support.

tl;dr others burned while Legion hid.

[Brehon]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316752721' post='2806531']
To clarify when I said reps I was referring only to what we owed directly back to GOONs. I'm aware of what we owe you and I'm currently working on getting that paid back.




Know it before I talk it? The "twist" as you put it was an agreement between Invicta and ourselves so try and take your own advice sometime.




Why the hell are you pissed off? We're not even treaty partners anymore. Just as a reminder this is post-Karma you know where NPO minds their own damn business!?

FYI we just started repayment as per our talks with Invicta and we've sent the equivalent of 34 slots of payment. So I'll refer you, again, to your own advice "Know it before you talk it".
[/quote]

You stated your reps were 2b and then 500m.. that is incorrect. Your portion was 1B. The "twist" I am referring to you was your, in the end, allowing (asking, they asked you either way.. foolish) to pick up 1/2 of your reps. I do know it.

Yeah 11 the one day and now 34 good on you. May you pay it faster than you did to GOONS.

[Heft]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316754111' post='2806545']
I have a feeling I'm about to. In fact I think I hear jackboots outside my door right now.
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't think Zha'dum is still around. You'll have to sort yourselves out on your own this time.

[Brehon]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1316755771' post='2806562']
Sorry, I don't think Zha'dum is still around. You'll have to sort yourselves out on your own this time.
[/quote]

I just gotta say... damn

[Leftbehind]

[quote name='justavictim82' timestamp='1316731512' post='2806239']
I can tell why it was the Legion and not Valhalla.... It's because MASH was treated like crap by pretty much everyone on purple except for the Legion. Ask anyone in Valhalla that's been around more than 2 years why MASH was never accepted into Posideon.

Edit:clarity
[/quote]

M*A*S*H was a great alliance to be in and friends with but it was an inactive mess towards the end which would have stopped some alliances from merging with you. Although I understand your reasoning for joining Legion, I still believe it was the worst place for you.



Look I don't hate the Legion I just feel that your a waste of space.

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316753854' post='2806541']
Hmmm, I'm going to have to pass on taking advice from the former leader of Ordo Paradoxia. Rouges aren't very high on my respect list.
[/quote]

*raises eyebrows*

Just because you don't like the source doesn't make the words any less true, friend.

If you ask for advice, like you did, don't turn away those who actually give it to you.

*Edit: Redacted entire segment. Done wasting my time with asshats.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Conformist Maryland]

Legion is dumb as !@#$. Post-Swampy, they chased away their only competent member (Lord Fingolfin) and refuse to do anything but stick their own heads up their ass and complain about how there is an unpleasant odor.

Edit: And this is coming from a Legion founder.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Conformist Maryland

[Groucho Marx]

Please disband or merge into NpO. Thanks in advance.

[potato]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316753854' post='2806541']
The purpose behind it was to make the war one of extended attrition. By extending the war into the marathon it was the other side would tire to the point were their effectiveness was impacted. It did have some limited effect in that our upper tiers were able to hit MK after their had been in almost continual war for over a month.

You're right on how our allies have responded to us using extended PM. NSO in particular has made their thoughts known, and going further the vast majority of the OWF has resoundingly rejected the concept. Just as the opposite of Extended PM, Eternal War, has been rejected, but unlike NPO it won't take a Karma II to convince us to change our ways.

Hmmm, I'm going to have to pass on taking advice from the former leader of Ordo Paradoxia. Rouges aren't very high on my respect list.
[/quote]

Maybe your tactic was actually brilliant and you were way ahead of times but, frankly, it doesn't matter. You went in for a friend and you let him and his friends burn because "i has tacticz!1!!". Which consists of dragging a war again elite alliances (thus highly prepared) who love nothing more than war. See the flaw in your plan?
There is also a coalition working behind you: if you were so against it, you should have mentionned it in the planning. That done, if your opinion didn't prevail, two options open up: 1. leave the coalition or 2. shut up and put up. Making a half-arsed effort shouldn't have been your answer.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1316755771' post='2806562']
Sorry, I don't think Zha'dum is still around. You'll have to sort yourselves out on your own this time.
[/quote]
Is everyone all right? I saw the smoke from this one one the board index

[quote name='Left_Behind' timestamp='1316758107' post='2806576']
M*A*S*H was a great alliance to be in and friends with
[/quote]
Other than that time they stabbed Athens in the back, right?

[Timberland]

I don't hate the legion, I love them. In fact last war I gained nation strength fighting them. Instead of focusing on spying my nukes or even money reserves they focused on trying to spy away my infra then ran aircraft dog attacks on me. It wasn't just one nation with this tactic but rounds and rounds of them. LOL

[DanDesade]