WHY HATE THE LEGION ?

[flak attack]

Leo, when I left GPA I had almost as many casualties as you. That was almost 2 1/2 years ago. 1m casualties is nothing to brag about.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1316665517' post='2805724']
That's because your allies [i]did[/i] have a problem with that. That and not even trying to pay your portion of the reps? Come on.
[/quote]

Where did the whole rep payment thing come from? We paid our reps in full.

[quote name='flak attack' timestamp='1316665587' post='2805725']
Leo, when I left GPA I had almost as many casualties as you. That was almost 2 1/2 years ago. 1m casualties is nothing to brag about.
[/quote]

Still not bragging. Just responding to a criticism.

Edited September 22, 2011 by LeonidasRexII

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316660180' post='2805643']
My point of not having a treaty is that we, just as all alliances do, have to consider the needs of our members and closest allies first. If after that we can still assist then we will and have on several occasions. Since several in our coalition decided to leave the fight before we did (when did Ragnarok exit? March wasn't it?) we had to take that into account.

So the guy with 1/3 of my casualties claims that I'm hiding behind an excuse? That's rich! I've not hid in any of the wars I've been involved in, those being Karma, Bi-Polar, and yes the last war Doomhouse. I had plenty of company in Doomhouse from my Legion comrades from January all the way until May, and yet we are continually called out for having not fought.
[/quote]

If i recall correctly, Ragnarok was the last to exit. Oh and as Bob said, they were not in your coalition or in a coalition with you.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Alfred von Tirpitz

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316666282' post='2805734']
Where did the whole rep payment thing come from? We paid our reps in full.
[/quote]
More reasoning of why you're awful. From what I heard, you guys threw an awful big fit about it.

[Omniscient1]

OP it's ok, don't take anything people say here to heart. Your alliance however has made several questionable decisions in its long history. It ranges from not entering in GW II to hiding in peace mode last war. (and several other things in between that)

What didn't help is that your alliance was attacked by one of the historically strong alliances NPO. Back then almost everyone had been attacked by NPO so that's not the point. Legion handled its attack differently though. It was put under a long viceroy and developed a good relationship with NPO. When NPO was kicked out of power, Legion took the fall with them. I personally do not fault Legion for that, but many used to mock Legion for having Stockholm's Syndrome. Post-war they should have and more than likely could have dropped their ex-Heg treaties and move to the other side, but instead they made the decision to stick with the NPO. NPO would then recently drop their old ally after this most recent war. (not really a move I fault them for)

In 2010, Legion was named the "Worst Alliance Ever". This meant even more mockery would be coming their way. Instead of trying to improve their alliance though they took the WAE title as a badge of honor (how I don't understand).

Last war everyone knew the losing side was going to be an alliance by the name of the New Polar Ordrer, commonly called Polar, (not to be confused with the New Pacific Order that was mentioned previously). However, Legion walked once again either intentionally or with very bad luck into an alliance with Polar. It still held it's treaties with NPO too. It was of course mocked for signing with Polar, and Polar was mocked for signing with Legion.

When Polar was attacked Legion shirked their treaty duties and did not attack any of the alliances attack Polar. When Polar's other allies asked "why hasn't Legion entered?" They responded with "it's not the right time for us to enter". Legion instead would wait until their allies in NPO were attacked. They would then hide in peace mode for much of the war. They would then pass on the debt of their reps to their ever so gracious allies.


These are only a few reasons why The Legion is hated. Personally, I am an optimist and hope that one day Legion can be made, by a great leader, into a respectable alliance on the world scene. Until then, however, Legion will be mocked, scorned, and laughed at. Good luck new citizen of Bob, and if you ever need anything just hit me up.

TL;DR:

Legion sucks because of the following:

incompetent leadership, perceived cowardice, and just plain bad luck.

[shahenshah]

Also, unlike Legion, Ragnarok did not surrender.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1316666544' post='2805738']
More reasoning of why you're awful. From what I heard, you guys threw an awful big fit about it.
[/quote]

What reasoning? I kept track of the reps payments and as far as I know they're paid.

Personally I'm not aware of any fit that was thrown. The first offer was for us to pay 2 billion, and we refused, but eventually ended up in the 500 million range.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316660180' post='2805643']
My point of not having a treaty is that we, just as all alliances do, have to consider the needs of our members and closest allies first. If after that we can still assist then we will and have on several occasions. Since several in our coalition decided to leave the fight before we did ([b]when did Ragnarok exit[/b]? March wasn't it?) we had to take that into account.

So the guy with 1/3 of my casualties claims that I'm hiding behind an excuse? That's rich! I've not hid in any of the wars I've been involved in, those being Karma, Bi-Polar, and yes the last war Doomhouse. I had plenty of company in Doomhouse from my Legion comrades from January all the way until May, and yet we are continually called out for having not fought.
[/quote]


[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1316666949' post='2805743']
Also, unlike Legion, Ragnarok did not surrender.
[/quote]

You can re-like us. I said exited, not surrendered.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316666993' post='2805745']
What reasoning? I kept track of the reps payments and as far as I know they're paid.

Personally I'm not aware of any fit that was thrown. The first offer was for us to pay 2 billion, and we refused, but eventually ended up in the 500 million range.
[/quote]
[s]Maybe you did pay it in full[/s], but, I know for fact you (The Legion) threw a fit about paying your piece of the coalition fee. That's what I'm talking about.

Nah, apparently you didn't even do that. Thank your close ally for the help?

Edited September 22, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1316666949' post='2805743']
Also, unlike Legion, Ragnarok did not surrender.
[/quote]
Yeah? You keep telling yourself that, tell me how it works out. They got their ass handed to them, not that they expected anything different. I love RoK but i would say they had a Legion moment there towards the end of the war. I can see why they stuck up for Polar, i would do much the same, but when the principal on the front they were engaged on, Polar, the guy they entered for, was getting peace it was time to pack it in and call it a day.

Or, conversely, after having refused to surrender, should have gone on to the bitter end. I am sure as hell there was a load of "wtf we ending this now?" stuff going on in their internal forums when the war ended.

[Mogar]

I was a member of an alliance called the Coalition of Dark States, which fought on the League side of Great War 2, Legion and Orange Defense Network were basically begged to assist us in defeating the New Pacific Order, but our cries and pleas for help were ignored by both Legion and Orange Defense Network, our ally in LUE was forced to remain at war for quite some time and then were given incredibly harsh terms to get out of war, and then Great War 3 occurred a few months later, and everyone who fought for the League enjoyed watching Legion and ODN burn alongside us.

[Brehon]

Clarity 1b which was based on your alliance size when you only wanted 500m. Your gov accepted the 1b then through some twist invicta picks up 500m.

Know it before you talk it. I know I was there, I talked to Watcher personally about bringing it to Gov and took the reply as well as totem's view on it, who in fact gave the final word of 1b.

2b (2.47) was the entire coalition rep bill.

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1316668376' post='2805758']
Yeah? You keep telling yourself that, tell me how it works out. They got their ass handed to them, not that they expected anything different. I love RoK but i would say they had a Legion moment there towards the end of the war. I can see why they stuck up for Polar, i would do much the same, but when the principal on the front they were engaged on, Polar, the guy they entered for, was getting peace it was time to pack it in and call it a day.

Or, conversely, after having refused to surrender, should have gone on to the bitter end. I am sure as hell there was a load of "wtf we ending this now?" stuff going on in their internal forums when the war ended.
[/quote]

You missed a pun bro

[Kzoppistan]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316662562' post='2805667']
I'm currently undertaking just such an endeavor. Any suggestions.?
[/quote]

Yes. A few.

Hire a PR man. Seriously. I'm not joking or being snide, since I don't really care one way or the other about Legion. What's happening here in this thread is a good example.

If you are second-in-command, as you say, don't stoop to bickering about reps, why you did what you did, and causalities. If you're right, nobody will listen, and if you're wrong you look like a fool. If your alliance is universally disliked, it's a waste of time and only makes you sound defensive. Don't bother engaging people who just want to throw stones at you because you won't win, even if you are correcting some one who is wrong. If you can't charm the pants off people then it's best to pretend that that sort of petty debating is below you.

Instead, get someone to handle the OWF for you and do damage control in cases like this. Someone who can sweep away criticism with charisma and grace.

Then you work on those internal issues and ramp up your diplomacy. Stay quiet and work on your coordination, until you have a chance to prove yourselves again. Post real accomplishments and turn your back on those who nay say you.

ODN turned their reputation around and so it's entirely possible. You just have to take your licks without complaint until you get another chance to prove yourselves on the battlefield or with extensive unpretentious engaging PR.

There, that's my free advice for the day.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Kzoppistan

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='shahenshah' timestamp='1316670921' post='2805776']
You missed a pun bro
[/quote]
[img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-coffee.gif[/img] i knew there was a reason i avoided this place before my morning dose of coffee [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-coffee.gif[/img]

[Cataduanes]

Do yourselves a favour Legion and stop participating in this thread, it will only end badly. And listen to Kzoppistan's very sound advice

[Rush Sykes]

Id like to add, that in one week of war with Joffre(former WAPA who earned his way on our ZI list), Joffre has nuked me 3 times successfully. That means, he has hurt me more in 3 days , than Legion did in 2 months of war last conflict (2 nukes in 2 months). Repeat that to yourself a few times then wonder why Legion is hated.

[Brehon]

Yet more reason Legion is just frankly pissing me off. Invicta goes ahead and covers 500m of Legion reps with the statement from legion they will pay it back on at a non disclosed time. I found out it has been paid back.

For paying 500m of Legion reps, Invicta has been paid back with 11 slots of 3m/50 tech for a general realized 66m and wait for it... the debt is paid!?!

You don't deserve the good will Invicta has given you. They took more damage than you, they are 1/4 your size and they paid more reps than you, faster than you and your return was just over 10%.

PATHETIC

So I was told the debt isn't yet paid off.. this showing is still pathetic.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Brehon

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1316673483' post='2805796']
Yet more reason Legion is just frankly pissing me off. Invicta goes ahead and covers 500m of Legion reps with the statement from legion they will pay it back on at a non disclosed time. I found out it has been paid back.

For paying 500m of Legion reps, Invicta has been paid back with 11 slots of 3m/50 tech for a general realized 66m and wait for it... the debt is paid!?!

You don't deserve the good will Invicta has given you. They took more damage than you, they are 1/4 their size and they paid more reps than you, faster than you and your return was just over 10%.

PATHETIC

So I was told the debt isn't yet paid off.. this showing is pathetic.
[/quote]
You know, there was a time, not too far back, when i thought maybe they were changed and a bit misunderstood or just tarred with a very old brush. However, when i see things like this, i just have to shake my head sadly. For an alliance of such size, they do manage to keep on screwing up, repeatedly. How hard can it be to pay off those reps, if an alliance smaller than them can manage their own reps as well as Legion's. I wager there are still some in Legion that are capable and worth the effort to get to know them, but seemingly the climate there throttles and strangles even the best people into being the legionnaires that we have come to know.

[Dajobo]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1316666756' post='2805741']
When Polar was attacked Legion shirked their treaty duties and did not attack any of the alliances attack Polar.
[/quote]

Omni I just need to correct this statement. Legion offered to enter for us on many occasions but we held them back thinking when they entered it would bring a lot more firepower in against them than they could add, and therefore not help the situation. A cruel twist of fate saw NPO pre-empted on the very day that we were going to accept Legions offer. Legion have some damn nice people in their membership and while lots of people on Bob don't give a hoot about that, we do. Friends > Infra. They didn't fight with us no, but they didn't shirk their obligations to us for one second either.

[Ellis]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316666282' post='2805734']
Where did the whole rep payment thing come from? We paid our reps in full.
[/quote]

No you didn't

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1316666993' post='2805745']
What reasoning? I kept track of the reps payments and as far as I know they're paid.

Personally I'm not aware of any fit that was thrown. The first offer was for us to pay 2 billion, and we refused, but eventually ended up in the 500 million range.
[/quote]

Considering we took 501mil of your reps, I certainly hope it was more than that.

[Systemfailure]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1316692986' post='2805847']
Considering we took 501mil of your reps, I certainly hope it was more than that.
[/quote]
if it wasn't more then that...

+2 Legion respect

[Lusitan]

What's there not to hate?

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1316692986' post='2805847']
No you didn't



Considering we took 501mil of your reps, I certainly hope it was more than that.
[/quote]
You took on half their reps Ellis, but they have sent you 11 packages of 3m 50 tech since to repay you

[R3nowned]

Legion. The alliance made of fail... Since... Always? As long as I've been around anyway.

I watched them fail again and again, wondering and hoping that they'd get better, but as the years passed, they've arguably gotten worse. I really don't understand why MASH picked them to merge into... Valhalla would've been a better choice