Announcement from Non Grata

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315632392' post='2797859']
Moralists whining =/= PR disaster[/quote]

Moralist whining is a symptom. Surprising you don't make the connection.

After all, at the end of the day Vox had a heavy Moralist component.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315658941' post='2798012']
You can't even get the alliance name right so why should I worry?
[/quote]
Yarp, very hungover. Still doesn't excuse the point: You're advocating a point that individual initiative shouldn't be hampered by considerations of inter-alliance policy.
Raiding, like tech-dealing, is an individual initiative. Either you would support me raiding MCXXCXAetc or your arguement is pretty clearly nonsense.

[Bob Ilyani]

Read through this entire thread and the only thing that I've learned (more like re-iterated but whatever) is that Methrage should just stop posting.

[janax]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1315663187' post='2798033']
Actually we offered very simple monetary reparations for anyone before attacking. It was not our first reflex to attack. The first time you attacked us we called it a mistake on the tech dealers part and ignored it, passing it off as a bout of ignorance of your situation. The second time when it became a pattern we got a bit angrier and decided that it was happening with too alarming a frequency.


Stop exaggerating this.
[/quote]

Actually you wanted 30 million.

[Kryievla]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315627096' post='2797799']
I think it has already, simultaneously decreasing public opinion of Non Grata while improving opinion of me with those who aren't already allied with you guys.

[/quote]

My opinion of you was neutral before; after seeing you admit to deliberately trapping people in compromising situations for your own gratification, it has lessened.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Kryievla

[Alterego]

I dont recognise your authority to tell me what to do. As such I will ignore this attempt to force your will on myself or my alliance under threat of attack.

Being owned so much that you have to make blanket threats to tech buyers makes you look like sissys.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1315667532' post='2798063']
Moralist whining is a symptom. Surprising you don't make the connection.

After all, at the end of the day Vox had a heavy Moralist component.
[/quote]
It can be a symptom, but often times those complaining about something will project their outrage onto other people and claim that something is a PR disaster and try to make that the conventional wisdom, so that people will think that it was one and a bad move, when it really wasn't.

This is one of those cases.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1315671477' post='2798102']
I dont recognise your authority to tell me what to do. As such I will ignore this attempt to force your will on myself or my alliance under threat of attack.

Being owned so much that you have to make blanket threats to tech buyers makes you look like sissys.
[/quote]
Making "blanket threats" against aiding someone at war with you (regardless of the reason for the aid) is standard operating procedure, especially against rogues. You choose to ignore such threats at your peril.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1315669382' post='2798077']
Actually you wanted 30 million.
[/quote]

Actually we wanted 30 million and 1000 tech from Methrage which others were happy to help pay off. We let him and nicholai go with white peace after his first week of war against us, then he restocked and attacked us again. Considering the damages he did in the week before the white peace and the damages done to us from the time of re-declaration, this is more than reasonable in my opinion. That amount isn't far of from actual damages and alliances often use some kind of multiplier.

If Methrage really wanted, he could have easily taken the peace with the reps we demanded. We have nothing more than patient with him and with the people that aided them (minus our MoD who went a bit out of line in one negotiation he should never been in).

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315625467' post='2797776']
In the post I quoted they said doing tech deals to them is considered aid - that to pretty much everyone means don't do tech deals

I would honestly bet that meth rage could send aid messages to NG members and probably get one to bite

The bottom line is it's not on every alliance to communicate NG's edict therefore they can't enforce these reps for legit tech deals
[/quote]

That is like saying that should MCXA get rogued by a random NG member, that NG should not have to do anything at all, that the random NG member should be able to stay a random NG member and MCXA cannot enforce reps or anything of the sort...

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315627712' post='2797806']
We aren't feeling sorry, and even if they see they are at war they are doing a tech deal

Maybe if they are at war they got rogued on who knows for those of us on this board yes we get the idea, but Joe smiley who just bothers when it's time for war doesn't come here to check who is and who isn't ok to deal with

Again sending aid is one thing but if he is doing legit tech deals NG has no right to infringe on nations rights to do tech deals as they see fit

Oh and sir William if their handling of this situation is to show their might than they are severly lacking in that department
[/quote]

heh, remind me to set up tech deals with any alliance that is ever at war with MCXA. Then watch as MCXA demands reps for said tech deals or attempts to attack me or anyone else that engaged in said tech deals.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1315633238' post='2797881']
My concern is how NG will distinguish those who make an honest mistake given Methrage has admitted and is currently sending 200 messages a day in order to stir !@#$ up, ideally towards these type of individuals.

It's not like Methrage is sending these messages to anyone allied to NG.
[/quote]

why should they have to distinguish? If someone sends money to methrage or nicholai, then they should pay reps. Frankly, most nations buying tech have most likely been around for a bit and should know better. Or, this could be the time for other alliance govs to send out their own messages to their alliance members saying, "don't do tech deals with methrage or nicholai as they are rogues".

I would say that it is up to alliance gov members to protect their alliance members. Do your jobs and then you won't get a visit from NG over something as stupid as doing a tech deal with methrage and nicholai.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1315642050' post='2797936']
Not really. Three million is easily replaced. I'm more concerned about the implied threat of military retaliation in the instance that someone who has stated he has and will continue to mislead nations who don't know any better into aiding him in order to fuel his war with Non Grata continues to do so.

Someone who has nothing to lose could easily persuade the average user (ie: the 95% of this game that doesn't use this forum,) into aiding him. That he has specifically targeted alliances with mass personal messages with whom their alliance affiliation would pose a distinct potential to incite an undue amount of drama is much less surprising.

While I understand the pain that nuclear rogues cause (we have dealt with more than our fair share in recent months,) I can't help but feel this will only motivate him to do more of the same, I guess.
[/quote]

Again, you talk about how uninformed nations are. Frankly, you are informed, take time out of your day and inform your alliance mates. It is not that hard. Since we all know you can do that, if you choose to not inform your alliance mates about this, then them claiming ignorance is ridiculous. You are not ignorant of the situation and you or your gov (which I doubt is uninformed as well) should have ensured that MHA is fully aware. That is your gov's job. If they are incapable of performing their job, that is not NG's fault in the least.

[Chickenzilla]

I'm like 50% sure Spycap is my friend from high school and is probably inactive as !@#$. I could be wrong though.

[feestaap1]

So Methrage after a week I would like to ask you the same question...
are you aware that your nation can't go below zero NS? Because it seems you don't know...

Fighting wars till the end won't work in your crusade against alliances!
Forget about it...

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1315638058' post='2797916']
I'm sure the bigger concern is informing your nations there is a tech spammer and scammer on the lose with no life that wants to take your money.


How about we agree that you are thankfully just one member who is allowed to have a singular opinion. But keep on harping on how much you hate us. Maybe [url="http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Alliance=Methuselarity"]this[/url] AA suits you better?
[/quote]

Possibly, but I have no friends there.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1315642646' post='2797943']
It's nice to see we have so many friends like Omniscient, makes things much more interesting. Those that matter in ODN know how we feel about them. I'm not taking an opinion of one member as common perception, and you shouldn't either Omniscient.
[/quote]

If you're saying NG doesn't think badly of NG and it was just a Jacapo comment then apology accepted. Good luck out there.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315645209' post='2797955']
Then I apologize for what I said about ODN in the other thread and saying that you guys were supporting them. Sorry for that.
[/quote]

It's ok. Good luck on your wars.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='feestaap1' timestamp='1315679782' post='2798198']
So Methrage after a week I would like to ask you the same question...
are you aware that your nation can't go below zero NS? Because it seems you don't know...

Fighting wars till the end won't work in your crusade against alliances!
Forget about it...
[/quote]
Did you guys know a nation can't go below zero NS? You guys seemed to be trying with no success and I'm doing about as good as I was doing before getting hit by the sanctions in the beginning of the war, so with all the damage you guys have taken and your nations dismantling themselves to fight me, I haven't taken any lasting damage this war.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315658701' post='2798009']
Sounds perfect because I know it's just an empty idle threat

But nice try to flex nuts
[/quote]

Its a threat? Why would it be a threat? Didn't you just finish telling us it was acceptable behavior?

[Duncan King]

[quote name='Gofastleft' timestamp='1315620668' post='2797703']
Since some people seem unable to understand this concept I think it is important that we clearly say that yes, even sending money to these two for a tech deal is considered sending aid.



[/quote]
I've never understood how there could even be confusion in this case. "Don't aid alliances at war" isn't a very difficult concept.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1315686789' post='2798268']
I've never understood how there could even be confusion in this case. "Don't aid alliances at war" isn't a very difficult concept.
[/quote]

I know right, it's so bafflingly simple. Really just don't get how people are even arguing over it.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Il Impero Romano

[Stewie]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1315686789' post='2798268']
I've never understood how there could even be confusion in this case. "Don't aid alliances at war" isn't a very difficult concept.
[/quote]

Course it is, same as don't declare yourself ruler of 2 nations at once, or half a dozen other concepts which many members of planet bob seem to ignore.

[janax]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1315675937' post='2798148']
Actually we wanted 30 million and 1000 tech from Methrage which others were happy to help pay off. We let him and nicholai go with white peace after his first week of war against us, then he restocked and attacked us again. Considering the damages he did in the week before the white peace and the damages done to us from the time of re-declaration, this is more than reasonable in my opinion. That amount isn't far of from actual damages and alliances often use some kind of multiplier.

If Methrage really wanted, he could have easily taken the peace with the reps we demanded. We have nothing more than patient with him and with the people that aided them (minus our MoD who went a bit out of line in one negotiation he should never been in).
[/quote]

No, 30 million for one person aiding him. Not from Methrage himself.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1315677546' post='2798167']


Again, you talk about how uninformed nations are. Frankly, you are informed, take time out of your day and inform your alliance mates. It is not that hard. Since we all know you can do that, if you choose to not inform your alliance mates about this, then them claiming ignorance is ridiculous. You are not ignorant of the situation and you or your gov (which I doubt is uninformed as well) should have ensured that MHA is fully aware. That is your gov's job. If they are incapable of performing their job, that is not NG's fault in the least.
[/quote]

The counter argument you have presented is that it's my responsibility to inform every nation in every alliance when any nation goes nuke rogue.

I stated that the act of implying the threat of force when methrage's intentions are as clear as days are likely as necessary as it is effective, and that this will only embolden him further and if anything invite random anyone's to step off their team and aid him.

[hizzy]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1315693597' post='2798311']
The counter argument you have presented is that it's my responsibility to inform every nation in every alliance when any nation goes nuke rogue.

I stated that the act of implying the threat of force when methrage's intentions are as clear as days are likely as necessary as it is effective, and that this will only embolden him further and if anything invite random anyone's to step off their team and aid him.
[/quote]

This is true.

Case in point: if methrage ever needs aluminum and/or wheat, i'd be happy trade... or maybe i already am? dun dun duuuuuun

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1315686789' post='2798268']
I've never understood how there could even be confusion in this case. "Don't aid alliances at war" isn't a very difficult concept.
[/quote]

Because reality has little bearing on the OWF.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1315687806' post='2798277']
No, 30 million for one person aiding him. Not from Methrage himself.
[/quote]
Non Grata is starting to remind me of GOONS with how they do reps, seems they picked up a few pointers from them. Guess we'll see what that leads to for Non Grata.

[quote name='d3filed' timestamp='1315667272' post='2798057']
go away methrage
[/quote]
Stop making threads about me then? You guys are what makes sticking around fun.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Methrage

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1315693597' post='2798311']
The counter argument you have presented is that it's my responsibility to inform every nation in every alliance when any nation goes nuke rogue.

I stated that the act of implying the threat of force when methrage's intentions are as clear as days are likely as necessary as it is effective, and that this will only embolden him further and if anything invite random anyone's to step off their team and aid him.
[/quote]

No, the counter argument I presented is that it is your responsibility to inform your alliance members. I stated the governments of the other alliances were responsible for their own membership.

You stated that meth's spamming of ignorant nations is the problem and that the alliance should not be held accountable for those ignorant nations. Frankly, I find that stupid. As stated previously, the govs of most major alliances frequent these boards. It should be a simple matter for those gov members to message their alliance. That would most likely cut down a lot on this so-called "ignorance" claim you were trying to put forth.

If you are incapable or unwilling to inform your alliance not to aid a nuke rogue attacking another alliance, then you should not be in gov.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1315695368' post='2798327']
If you are incapable or unwilling to inform your alliance not to aid a nuke rogue attacking another alliance, then you should not be in gov.
[/quote]
The only alliance that was attacked for doing tech deals by Non Grata didn't even do one with a nuke rogue, they did one with a non-nuclear capable nation with no wonders who is in an alliance, which is why Non Grata is attacking him. None of the ones who did tech deals with me were attacked.

So I guess he needs to alert everyone in his alliance not to do tech deals with nations who aren't even nuclear capable, but are in the same alliance as a nuclear capable nation they war with, which ironically doesn't even fit the definition of rogue for most if he's in an alliance.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Methrage

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315695613' post='2798329']
The only alliance that was attacked for doing tech deals by Non Grata didn't even do one with a nuke rogue, they did one with a non-nuclear capable nation with no wonders who is in an alliance, which is why Non Grata is attacking him. None of the ones who did tech deals with me were attacked.
[/quote]

Then you should warn your alliance mate that being in an alliance with you will get him attacked since you are a rogue. Frankly, it is obvious you care only about yourself. You don't care about any actual cause or any other person. You are letting many people get attacked or risk getting attacked simply so you can get some PR time.

You used to be kewl back in the day Meth, when you actually cared. Now you just need to stop.