Announcement from Non Grata

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315621290' post='2797714']
Its a shame to see you guys attacked for doing tech deals.
[/quote]

It's a shame that you knew (to give you some credit here) of the consequences for anyone looking to tech-deal with you but you went ahead and solicited people anyhow (only to later feign outrage at said consequences). Not that you actually care any about those that you lure.

[quote name='The Big Bad' timestamp='1315622678' post='2797738']
I do not know what is worse that you just acknowledged this a legit war or that he seems to be causing you enough trouble that you had to do this. As annoying as the guy is you have to give him credit for reducing a sanctioned alliance to giving him some free PR.
[/quote]

Are you using 'publicity' and 'PR' interchangeably here? Because NG's stance and this notice won't improve the public opinion of Methrage any.

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315622851' post='2797741']
Just curious what gives you the right to dictate who nations can and can't do tech deals with?

Straight up aid I can see, however if he is fulfilling his end of the bargain in a tech deal what gives you this right?
[/quote]

Might makes right (different context than the traditional idiom but it still applies).

And ultimately, given that the tech-deal benefits the seller (that's to say that 100% of the funds are not converted into tech that's then sent out), tech-dealing with an enemy is in the same vein as aiding one (the main difference being that the former involves a return on investment).


And yes, even one Methrage thread is one too many. But some things just need to be said.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1315626612' post='2797793']
Are you using 'publicity' and 'PR' interchangeably here? Because NG's stance and this notice won't improve the public opinion of Methrage any.
[/quote]
I think it has already, simultaneously decreasing public opinion of Non Grata while improving opinion of me with those who aren't already allied with you guys.

Also Non Grata still hasn't attacked anyone who did tech deals with me like they said would happen, here they decided to go after someone who did a tech deal with my alliance mate instead, as they like to pick and choose which wars they think they will win.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Methrage

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Zhaan' timestamp='1315626461' post='2797789']
I have to agree with those stating that your quest to go after anyone engaging in a standard tech deal on grounds of aiding an enemy of NG is ridiculous. [b]First, it's not aid. It's a trade.[/b] See, he's giving something in exchange for the money. He's not receiving it freely. That's how a tech deal works. Secondly, as mentioned, not everyone peruses these forums...let alone every thread in these forums, and may not know you are requesting no one to deal with him. Not that they would be obligated to honor that request, but to declare war against individuals who legitimately may not be aware of this beef is the equivalent of bullying and I doubt it will stand for long. May want to reconsider your position...well, at least your FA position, as this thread has only helped Methrage and lost some credibility for NG.
[/quote]

Well, they did say they would deal with anyone who has secret trades with Meth "appropriately", too. Whatever that means.

[MrHavok]

[quote name='asawyer' timestamp='1315626447' post='2797787']
Why are we constantly feeling sorry for people that can't take three seconds to check if their tech seller is in a war?
[/quote]

We aren't feeling sorry, and even if they see they are at war they are doing a tech deal

Maybe if they are at war they got rogued on who knows for those of us on this board yes we get the idea, but Joe smiley who just bothers when it's time for war doesn't come here to check who is and who isn't ok to deal with

Again sending aid is one thing but if he is doing legit tech deals NG has no right to infringe on nations rights to do tech deals as they see fit

Oh and sir William if their handling of this situation is to show their might than they are severly lacking in that department

Edited September 10, 2011 by MrHavok

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315627096' post='2797799']
I think it has already, simultaneously decreasing public opinion of Non Grata while improving opinion of me with those who aren't already allied with you guys.
[/quote]

I'm not sure why you think one's public opinion has to go up and the other's down (as if it's not possible or not the case that people take issue with NG's stance while still maintaining a low opinion of you), or how you haven't noticed that those that decry NG are predominantly non-allies/far from amiable (if we're going to go with that angle).


edit:

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315627712' post='2797806']
Again sending aid is one thing but if he is doing legit tech deals NG has no right to infringe on nations rights to do tech deals as they see fit
[/quote]

You seem to be missing the point - that NG isn't infringing on anyone's rights but is instead simply looking to cut off funding to a rogue.

Edited September 10, 2011 by SirWilliam

[MrHavok]

You seem to be missing the point - that NG isn't infringing on anyone's rights but is instead simply looking to cut off funding to a rogue.
This post has been edited by SirWilliam: Today, 10:13 PM

No I see your point, however they are threatening other people with war and reps who may not know the situation and thinks they are simply doing tech deals, which goes back to my point that if they don't check the owf then they aren't knowingly aiding meth rage who is at "war"

They see it as cutting off funding. I see it as restricting the flow of services in a legit private deal between two nations and they don't have the right nor the might to enforce that globally

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315628421' post='2797814']
No I see your point, however they are threatening other people with war and reps who may not know the situation and thinks they are simply doing tech deals, which goes back to my point that if they don't check the owf then they aren't knowingly aiding meth rage who is at "war"

They see it as cutting off funding. I see it as restricting the flow of services in a legit private deal between two nations and they don't have the right nor the might to enforce that globally
[/quote]
I'll have to try and instigate a test for this line of thought; i'm sure there are more than a few gents who would feign ignorance of clearly defined protocols and raid MXCA.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1315627761' post='2797807']
You seem to be missing the point - that NG isn't infringing on anyone's rights but is instead simply looking to cut off funding to a rogue.
[/quote]
Who is the rogue again? CA sent no money to me, even for tech deals.

Also funny how all these tech raiding alliances seem to blend together as one big alliance spread across multiple AAs whenever one of them bites off more than they can handle with their raids.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Methrage

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315628421' post='2797814']
No I see your point, however they are threatening other people with war and reps who may not know the situation and thinks they are simply doing tech deals, which goes back to my point that if they don't check the owf then they aren't knowingly aiding meth rage who is at "war"
[/quote]

Them's the breaks.

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315628421' post='2797814']
They see it as cutting off funding. I see it as restricting the flow of services in a legit private deal between two nations and they don't have the right nor the might to enforce that globally
[/quote]

I believe they have every right to protect their alliance against rogues in the manner they see fit.

And I also believe that they have all the might necessary to prevent nations from aiding Methrage or to assess consequences to those that do.

[Charles the Great]

Bath salts

[Omniscient1]

So what I get from this thread and the CSN incident is NG is anti-tech deal. Just another reason to add to my list on why you guys suck. I'll have to give you credit though. At least you have the balls to go get reps. The last group of people who aided an enemy of GOONS just got a stern talking to.

[Charles Stuart]

It's 07 all over again.

[Mr flubb]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315628421' post='2797814']
You seem to be missing the point - that NG isn't infringing on anyone's rights but is instead simply looking to cut off funding to a rogue. This post has been edited by SirWilliam: Today, 10:13 PMNo I see your point, however they are threatening other people with war and reps who may not know the situation and thinks they are simply doing tech deals, which goes back to my point that if they don't check the owf then they aren't knowingly aiding meth rage who is at "war" They see it as cutting off funding. I see it as restricting the flow of services in a legit private deal between two nations and they don't have the right nor the might to enforce that globally
[/quote]

There are reasons why you're wrong.
A) Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law. If i go sell some LSD and get caught, but i didnt know that what i was doing was illegal and just saw it as a normal business transaction, the consequences wont just magically disappear. If you go conduct your business transaction with methrage and you dont know NG has prohibited that, well tough !@#$. Maybe you should have researched your seller seeing every so often we have tech scammers and rouges like methrage.
B) Seeing as you're not in the position to regulate or deregulate aid to methrage, and NG is, your opinion on the matter doesnt count.

NG is doing whats best to kill methrage, something we all want. leave them alone

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1315629751' post='2797826']
So what I get from this thread and the CSN incident is NG is anti-tech deal. Just another reason to add to my list on why you guys suck.
[/quote]

Er, no. Tech deals benefit both the buyer and the seller. If people tech deal Methrage they help him to continue fighting NG. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for them to threaten people with military force if they help a nuke rogue.

[Charles Stuart]

[quote name='Mr flubb' timestamp='1315630849' post='2797835']
There are reasons why you're wrong.
A) Ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.
[/quote]

E-Law at its finest.

[William Blake]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1315622851' post='2797741']
Just curious what gives you the right to dictate who nations can and can't do tech deals with?

Straight up aid I can see, however if he is fulfilling his end of the bargain in a tech deal what gives you this right?

In addition if someone does a deal with him and they are nations that don't check the OWF why is it the responsibility for every alliance to spread your edict on this subject or else suffer your wrath or your extortion demands of reps?

This is your mess I suggest cleaning it up yourself

It's a very slippery slope and a dangerous area when alliances can dictate who tech deals are done with
[/quote]
You realize considering aiding nations at war to be itself an act of war is not a new phenomenon, right? I know it's always been around for the 4 years I've been playing. Not sure what you're complaint is.

[Jacapo Saladin]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1315629751' post='2797826']
So what I get from this thread and the CSN incident is NG is anti-tech deal. Just another reason to add to my list on why you guys suck. I'll have to give you credit though. At least you have the balls to go get reps. The last group of people who aided an enemy of GOONS just got a stern talking to.
[/quote]


Don't give 3 mil to a bill locked rogue and we won't have an issue. He couldn't wipe his own ^*@ before they gave him that money, but he was able to launch more wars with it. There is a direct correlation there and it isn't just a friendly tech deal.


We are against people who deliberately fund those who seek to destroy us and have attacked us on more than one occasion.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='Mr flubb' timestamp='1315630849' post='2797835']
NG is doing whats best to kill methrage, something we all want. leave them alone
[/quote]
I thought people were [i]against[/i] driving people from Bob?

Edited September 10, 2011 by Gibsonator21

[Mr flubb]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1315631103' post='2797841']
I thought people were [i]against[/i] driving people from the game?
[/quote]

>_>

Let me rephrase, We All want methrage to go away for awhile

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Mr flubb' timestamp='1315631279' post='2797842']
>_>

Let me rephrase, We All want methrage to go away for awhile
[/quote]
Some might agree with you, others don't. Which is why Non Grata will never succeed in their mission this war.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Methrage

[Mr flubb]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315631544' post='2797844']
Some might agree with you, others don't. Which is why Non Grata will never succeed in their mission this war.
[/quote]

Yes, this war is NG's mission. They will stop at absolutely nothing until you're destroyed. Their whole existence is on killing you and driving you off of bob..... Why dont you just admit they're better than you and surrender?

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Mr flubb' timestamp='1315631882' post='2797847']
Yes, this war is NG's mission. They will stop at absolutely nothing until you're destroyed. Their whole existence is on killing you and driving you off of bob..... Why dont you just admit they're better than you and surrender?
[/quote]
Because they are so fail they can't even do that right, they're failing badly and bringing it to the attention of everyone that they are failing and can't defeat a 2 man AA.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1315630880' post='2797836']
Er, no. Tech deals benefit both the buyer and the seller. If people tech deal Methrage they help him to continue fighting NG. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for them to threaten people with military force if they help a nuke rogue.
[/quote]

[quote name='Jacapo Saladin' timestamp='1315631085' post='2797840']
Don't give 3 mil to a bill locked rogue and we won't have an issue. He couldn't wipe his own ^*@ before they gave him that money, but he was able to launch more wars with it. There is a direct correlation there and it isn't just a friendly tech deal.


We are against people who deliberately fund those who seek to destroy us and have attacked us on more than one occasion.
[/quote]

Sure, I agree if you aid a rogue you should get smacked around. You guys do have a very sucky tech deal policy in general though. I'm actually kind of surprised at the love for Methrage in this thread. I mean I know people like the underdog, but last I checked no one liked Methrage.

[Mr flubb]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1315631988' post='2797849']
Because they are so fail they can't even do that right, they're failing badly and bringing it to the attention of everyone that they are failing and can't defeat a 2 man AA.
[/quote]

No, im pretty sure the main purpose of this was to say "hey, you know that methrage guy? well, if you aid him in any way shape or form, we gonna come after you" Not, "HOLY !@#$@#$ !@#$! THIS METHRAGE GUY IS KICKING OUR ASS!"

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Zhaan' timestamp='1315626461' post='2797789']
I have to agree with those stating that your quest to go after anyone engaging in a standard tech deal on grounds of aiding an enemy of NG is ridiculous. First, it's not aid. It's a trade. See, he's giving something in exchange for the money. He's not receiving it freely. That's how a tech deal works. Secondly, as mentioned, not everyone peruses these forums...let alone every thread in these forums, and may not know you are requesting no one to deal with him. Not that they would be obligated to honor that request, but to declare war against individuals who legitimately may not be aware of this beef is the equivalent of bullying and I doubt it will stand for long. May want to reconsider your position...well, at least your FA position, as this thread has only helped Methrage and lost some credibility for NG.
[/quote]
They could also, you know, check his war screen.

I've got a good "trade" though, since apparently something being a "trade" means it can't be "aid". I guess I'll start doing 15mill/1tech deals with rogues that I like.