STA September Press Conference

[Tygaland]

[quote name='gambona' timestamp='1315625692' post='2797778']
Pez, how do you feel about Tyga insinuating you have no authority within STA and that your word means nothing?
[/quote]

Tyga, how do you feel about your words being twisted and used out of context to make a lame political point?

It is diappointing but not surprising. People with no idea how the STA functions and no desire to find out will often make comments such as the above in order to score points.

The facts of the matter are that such decisions are to domain on the Supreme Chancellor. Member sof the Consilium Tigris, of which Pez was one (she is now Chancellor, 2nd in charge), are responsible for the administration of their department with any decisions that affect the alliance as a whole to be decided by the Supreme Chancellor after consultation with the Consilium Tigris and/or membership of the alliance depending on the Supreme Chancellor's discretion.

During the episode in question Pez decided to accept an apology offered by Chefjoe the moment he posted the apology. The acceptance of this apology was something that affected the alliance as a whole as was therefore required to be referred to the Supreme Chancellor to discuss with the Consilium Tigris and/or the membership of the alliance as deemed necessary. In the six minutes between Chefjoe's post and Pez's acceptance there was no referral, no discussion and no decison made by the Supreme Chancellor. The two day gap between Chefjoe's post and my reply was the time I took to discuss the issue with the Consilium and the membership before making a decision. How crass of me. The fact that no one from Valhalla bothered to reply to my outlining of our decision and the reasons for that decision for over two months shows how keen they were to discuss the matter. It was a means to an ends for them and once the need for the apology to be accepted vanished they didn't bother pursuing it any further.

As the then Consilium Tigris member looking after foreign affairs Pez was within her powers to solicit the apology from Chefjoe and to discuss that apology with him. What was outside her role was accepting that apology on the alliance's behalf.

I hope that clarifies the issue with regards to Pez and her role in the alliance at the time and the powers she held whilst in that role.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Tygaland

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315616695' post='2797667']
At the moment the STA will be content to be its boring self. I'm sure all you bloc-members are crunching numbers and formulating CBs to bring the next curbstomp into fruition. I don't want to tread on anyone's toes there.
[/quote]
Why do you feel like you need to be content to just be "boring?" Why is it that you don't want to tread on anyone's toes? If everyone on this planet left STA and her allies alone would you be content to just simply exist? Is that in the end all you want to do?

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1315635101' post='2797900']
Why do you feel like you need to be content to just be "boring?" Why is it that you don't want to tread on anyone's toes? If everyone on this planet left STA and her allies alone would you be content to just simply exist? Is that in the end all you want to do?
[/quote]

Drama arises on its own, I have never been one to believe in creating drama for drama's sake. My reference to the STA as "boring" was tongue-in-cheek reference to your "sit on the sidelines" comment. I don't consider the STA to be boring. We say what we think and that honesty tends to ruffle more than a few feathers.

As for stepping on toes just for the sake of it, I don't see the point in doing that for the reason I mentioned earlier about committing suicide. While I realise it is in yours and your allies interests to have a conga-line of smaller alliances thrown themselves on the sacrificial altar so you can tear the alliance a new one to satisfy your bloodlust, it is not really in the best interests of the small alliances to do so.

Your demand that they should strikes me as odd.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Tygaland

[pezstar]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315616350' post='2797665']
I already pointed out the facts. Pez had no authority nor mandate to accept your apology and the fact that she accepted it 6 minutes after you posting it gives the appearance the whole thing was a set up between yourself and Pez. The STA has always required an official apology from Valhalla as an alliance not a rambling anecdote from yourself. Those are the facts of the matter. There is no formal and official apology on our forum, just your rambling anecdote of excuse-making and belittlement of the issues between our alliances.



My ".gov" had no authority to do what she did. You and everyone who has acted as a Valhallan diplomat to the STA is aware of what we require. The fact that you and Pez thought you could sneak around it does not change that requirement at all. You have not met that requirement.

As far as childish tantrums are concerned, I'm unaware of throwing one. It is you hurling abuse at me here not the other way around.



Indeed I am. We have always required and always will require a formal and official apology from Valhalla to move on, That is the one constant in the entire episode. Well, one of two, The other is you dancing around in circles trying to avoid offering such an apology.
[/quote]

Just for the record, I don't have logs available at the moment, but my recollection is that I said something along the lines of "That looks great, thanks", and not "Apology accepted!", and it was more like "Let's see what the rest of the alliance says."

Edit: oh, wait. I do have them.

[quote][17:54] <chefjoe> *Link to the post*
01[17:55] <pezstar> Oh man. that is perfect.
[17:55] <chefjoe> short but sweet and honest
[17:55] <chefjoe> cant do much more
01[17:56] <pezstar> EVERYONE in our private forum area said "if it's sincere, we'll accept, but I'll bet a billion dollars he doesn't make a real apology and places the blame on us"
01[17:56] <pezstar> And I know you're not dumb enough to do that, so I am feeling a little smug today. [/quote]

[Tygaland]

I think Chefjoe is referring to your reply in the Valhalla embassy on our forum which he took to be an acceptance of the apology. To me it appeared to be a personal acceptance of the apology offered but, as I said earlier, only you can really say whether that is the case or not.

As Chefjoe considered it an acceptance on behalf of the alliance and has decided to use this to attack me in the discussion here, I felt the need to point out to him and assorted hangers-on that, in your role at the time, it was not possible for you to accept his apology on behalf of the alliance.

I realise that I am wasting my breath in doing so, but there you have it.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Tygaland

[Kzoppistan]

Tell us a story, Tyga.

/gets cup of hot coca.

Tell us about the time you nuked somebody and started a world war. It was before the time of a lot of folks and I never got the backstory.

[Lord Levistus]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315657264' post='2797994']
I think Chefjoe is referring to your reply in the Valhalla embassy on our forum which he took to be an acceptance of the apology. To me it appeared to be a personal acceptance of the apology offered but, as I said earlier, only you can really say whether that is the case or not.

As Chefjoe considered it an acceptance on behalf of the alliance and has decided to use this to attack me in the discussion here, I felt the need to point out to him and assorted hangers-on that, in your role at the time, it was not possible for you to accept his apology on behalf of the alliance.
[/quote]

...and if it were and the general membership were ok with it, you'd still tear it up because you want Valhalla to lick your boots and beg for your grace?

You [b]are[/b] a pompous ass. I'll stop wasting my time trying to keep things civil.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1315671312' post='2798096']
...and if it were and the general membership were ok with it, you'd still tear it up because you want Valhalla to lick your boots and beg for your grace?

You [b]are[/b] a pompous ass. I'll stop wasting my time trying to keep things civil.
[/quote]

Yes, it is always riveting to see someone make up a story and then get annoyed about it.

The fact is that had we received a formal apology from Valhalla then it would have been and still would be accepted. As of yet, we have not received it. I have no inclination to have you "lick my boots", I am just waiting on what we have always required to move on. Other alliances stepped up long ago and we have moved on so I'm not sure what precedent you are relying on for your fantasy.

But, if you need to make up stories to justify your alliance's reluctance to step up and take responsibility for its actions, then there is little I can do about that. Knock yourself out.

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1315429230' post='2796475']
I didn't think they were bad at all. I thought we had begun the process of moving on. Here's the backstory.

NV and Valhalla were working well together, and after a long time of building relations, both parties were interested in a treaty. Months ago, NV said they weren't willing to cause strain to our relationship by signing with Valhalla. A few months after that, post war and post STA getting our house back in order, we were discussing some things internally and decided that we'd be willing to let everything go with Valhalla and drop the long-time feud with them if they'd issue an apology in their embassy on our forum. Meanwhile, we gave NV our blessing to treaty Valhalla, and assured them that it wouldn't be an issue for us. Chefjoe came and apologized, Tyga (as well as what I would characterize as about half of the alliance, if I had to guess) felt like the apology was half-assed and meaningless, and that it didn't actually address the issues. The other half either didn't care at all, or just wanted to let it go. He posted as much in response, and we heard nothing in response for a couple of months. Meanwhile, we told NV that regardless of the apology situation, they still have our blessing to go ahead with their treaty. We didn't really care all that much, so we didn't approach Valhalla about it because we're sort of sick of the drama llama, and ultimately, NV deserves the chance to build a relationship with their new ally. A week or so ago, I guess someone at Valhalla decided to check in in their embassy. Bud posted something that was sort of non-sensical, and some of our members responded and there was a short (like, less than a page) of back and forth. I don't think the thread has really seen any action in a few days now.

As far as I was aware, STA and Valhalla were happy to have a peaceful, quiet co-existence without the need to be jerks to each other. Apparently, Chefjoe was on a different page. I suppose it's ok. Feuds are fun.

*Shakes fist at Valhalla* You bad guys! You very bad guys!
[/quote]

Not surprised at this. Val behaved pretty much the same way when we tried to patch things up with them after PEACE/Poseidon broke down.

Question - Going off the Bloc question by [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=29537"]Duke Nukem[/url]; since you're close to NV do you think you'd be a good fit in AZTEC?

[pezstar]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1315692553' post='2798302']


Question - Going off the Bloc question by [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showuser=29537"]Duke Nukem[/url]; since you're close to NV do you think you'd be a good fit in AZTEC?
[/quote]

No for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that we just aren't active enough at the moment to participate in bloc politics.

[Azaghul]

Tyga has a habit of being an ass to people visiting the STA boards. This is nothing new. STA is lucky that it has other more reasonable gov members.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Azaghul

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315694642' post='2798324']
Tyga has a habit of being an ass to people visiting the STA boards. This is nothing new. STA is lucky that it has other more reasonable gov members.
[/quote]

The Negative Nancy's are trying their hardest to derail this thread aren't they? But we must muddle on despite them so here's an actual question then.

I posed a similar question to Ragnarok - If Planet Bob continues on it's current course of decline how long to you see yourself "hanging on"? To the bitter end, or do you see STA taking it's leave before the ABobcalypse?

Edited September 10, 2011 by LeonidasRexII

[Azaghul]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1315697612' post='2798348']
The Negative Nancy's are trying their hardest to derail this thread aren't they? But we must muddle on despite them so here's an actual question then.

I posed a similar question to Ragnarok - If Planet Bob continues on it's current course of decline how long to you see yourself "hanging on"? To the bitter end, or do you see STA taking it's leave before the ABobcalypse?
[/quote]
How can you derail something that never had a well defined purpose?

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315694642' post='2798324']
Tyga has a habit of being an ass to people visiting the STA boards. This is nothing new. STA is lucky that it has other more reasonable gov members.
[/quote]

Take note, Feanor Noldorin, this is a prime example of how honesty ruffles feathers. Apparently telling an allaince that demanding 15 million and 250 tech for a broken trade circle is excessive and should be reconsidered is "being an ass" to people.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Tygaland

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315697894' post='2798354']
How can you derail something that never had a well defined purpose?
[/quote]

Not so much a derailment as the traditional monthly talking point from MK. Like a rooster that crows once a month.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Tygaland

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315697894' post='2798354']
How can you derail something that never had a well defined purpose?
[/quote]

You think that a thread titled STA Press Conference with "If you have a question post away" stated in the OP isn't well defined?

[Tygaland]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1315702813' post='2798390']
You think that a thread titled STA Press Conference with "If you have a question post away" stated in the OP isn't well defined?
[/quote]

We may have to open another monthly thread titled "Complain about Tyga" to assist them with their therapy.At least the purpose will be defined.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Tygaland

[Baltus]

Who is your favorite SF and Mj member? What are your thoughts on PB/DH? Coke or Pepsi?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315701977' post='2798382']
Take note, Feanor Noldorin, this is a prime example of how honesty ruffles feathers. Apparently telling an allaince that demanding 15 million and 250 tech for a broken trade circle is excessive and should be reconsidered is "being an ass" to people.
[/quote]
Yes it was only your disagreement, it had nothing to do with you being very abrasive even after we honestly tried to explain our position and admitted that we had handled it poorly, and insisting on seeing evil motives in everything we did, like people do when trying to show someone up on these boards. We had plenty of others that were unhappy with us in that situation that we talked with about it without that kind of crap, and guess what, those conversations for the most part ended well.

The truth is that if anyone does anything "wrong" in your eyes there is very little that they can do to make it up to you. A reasonable apology isn't enough, they have to grovel at your feet and even that might not be enough.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315702319' post='2798384']
Not so much a derailment as the traditional monthly talking point from MK. Like a rooster that crows once a month.
[/quote]
We'll be sure to pick someone else aside from Valhalla to start it first next month, just to keep it interesting. Maybe TOP, I'm sure TOP will enjoy going after a Polar ally.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1315702813' post='2798390']
You think that a thread titled STA Press Conference with "If you have a question post away" stated in the OP isn't well defined?
[/quote]
It isn't about any specific issue. That isn't a criticism, just a general comment. The issues that have been brought up qualify as much as any.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315711042' post='2798463']
Yes it was only your disagreement, it had nothing to do with you being very abrasive even after we honestly tried to explain our position and admitted that we had handled it poorly, and insisting on seeing evil motives in everything we did, like people do when trying to show someone up on these boards. We had plenty of others that were unhappy with us in that situation that we talked with about it without that kind of crap, and guess what, those conversations for the most part ended well.
[/quote]

You handled it poorly, yes. Did you do anything to rectify it? No. As I said, honesty ruffles enough feathers without creating fake drama.

[quote]
The truth is that if anyone does anything "wrong" in your eyes there is very little that they can do to make it up to you. A reasonable apology isn't enough, they have to grovel at your feet and even that might not be enough.
[/quote]

That is false. Ask TPF or NPO as to whether apologies are accepted by me or not. In your case you made no effort to apologise nor rectify the error you made. Instead you used the fact that the aggrieved party dared complain as justification for your continued pursuit of the money and reps you were aware you were not entitled to. And I'm the pompous ass!

[quote]
We'll be sure to pick someone else aside from Valhalla to start it first next month, just to keep it interesting. Maybe TOP, I'm sure TOP will enjoy going after a Polar ally.
[/quote]

I wasn't talking about Valhalla. I was talking about you.

[quote]
It isn't about any specific issue. That isn't a criticism, just a general comment. The issues that have been brought up qualify as much as any.
[/quote]

It is a press conference to ask questions of our alliance, it has a fairly obvious and well established purpose . You use it as a forum for your monthy reposting of your complaints about me which is your prerogative but not really in line with the purpose of the press conference.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Tygaland

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315711860' post='2798476']
You handled it poorly, yes. Did you do anything to rectify it? No. As I said, honesty ruffles enough feathers without creating fake drama.[/quote]
"Honest" doesn't mean attributing bad motives to everything someone does and deliberately being abrasive. That was you creating the drama.

[quote]That is false. Ask TPF or NPO as to whether apologies are accepted by me or not. In your case you made no effort to apologise nor rectify the error you made. Instead you used the fact that the aggrieved party dared complain as justification for your continued pursuit of the money and reps you were aware you were not entitled to. And I'm the pompous ass![/quote]
We didn't apologize to you because we hadn't done anything to you.

Like you though, NSO was more interested in public one-upmanship than a satisfactory resolution to the issue, which is why it ended the way it did.

[quote]I wasn't talking about Valhalla. I was talking about you.[/quote]
And yet Valhalla was the one that started our "monthly talking point from MK". We must have mind control.

[quote]It is a press conference to ask questions of our alliance, it has a fairly obvious and well established purpose . You use it as a forum for your monthy reposting of your complaints about me which is your prerogative but not really in line with the purpose of the press conference.
[/quote]
I looked through the last couple of them (going back to February). I personally rarely posted in them, and in only one did any other MK member use it to bash you about something and it was another member of STA.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315713569' post='2798501']
"Honest" doesn't mean attributing bad motives to everything someone does and deliberately being abrasive. That was you creating the drama.
[/quote]

Honesty means calling it as you see it. When people make no move to correct an error then you are hard-pressed not to see malice in the motive.

[quote]
We didn't apologize to you because we hadn't done anything to you.

Like you though, NSO was more interested in public one-upmanship than a satisfactory resolution to the issue, which is why it ended the way it did.
[/quote]

I wasn't asking for an apology for me. I was talking about an apology for your error to the aggrieved party and a move to rectify that error. None of which MK did. Again, you blame the victim of your incompetence an dpride for the fate your error bestowed on them and people call me a pompous ass. Unbelievable.

[quote]
And yet Valhalla was the one that started our "monthly talking point from MK". We must have mind control.
[/quote]

No, you piped in here yet again with you usual dig at me. That is what I'm referring to.

[quote]
I looked through the last couple of them (going back to February). I personally rarely posted in them, and in only one did any other MK member use it to bash you about something and it was another member of STA.
[/quote]

You did post in them though and what was it you said?

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1315713983' post='2798506']
Honesty means calling it as you see it. When people make no move to correct an error then you are hard-pressed not to see malice in the motive.

I wasn't asking for an apology for me. I was talking about an apology for your error to the aggrieved party and a move to rectify that error. None of which MK did. Again, you blame the victim of your incompetence an dpride for the fate your error bestowed on them and people call me a pompous ass. Unbelievable.[/quote]
When your intention is to make someone look bad, rather than resolve the issue, you usually don't resolve the issue. How you approach someone matters, and isn't something to brush under the rug.

[quote]No, you piped in here yet again with you usual dig at me. That is what I'm referring to.

You did post in them though and what was it you said?
[/quote]
I saw only one post of mine and it wasn't a dig at you.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1315717339' post='2798548']
When your intention is to make someone look bad, rather than resolve the issue, you usually don't resolve the issue. How you approach someone matters, and isn't something to brush under the rug.
[/quote]

You made yourselves look bad by screwing up then refusing to remedy the results of your screw up. Even to this day you persist in blaming the victims of your screw-up for daring complain. Yet, people call me a pompous ass.

[quote]
I saw only one post of mine and it wasn't a dig at you.
[/quote]

When referring to "you" in the first line I was referring to MK as can be seen from the comment I was replying to. The second was asking you what you said as you stated you rarely posted in the press conferences which implied you had posted.

Looking back on the last few press conferences the same topic (Tyga is a big meanie) has been raised three times, once by you here, once by lebubu and one by Beefspari of GOONS. There was a fourth raising of the topic by New Frontier but he is not connected to MK in anyway so I only mention it for completeness. It is a fairly common topic raised by MKers or their allies since the NSO issue. I haven't delved back any further than that because I think that is enough to back my point here.

[Pingu]

Q: Why is Tyga such a big meanie? Is it all the Twinkies(TM)?