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Vague Spy Roll Requests...


Captain Enema
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I'm starting to believe people are using spy rolls as a free pass to do whatever they want to someone.

I think that spy rolls ought to be accompanied with a specific statement on how the person intends to carry ought this plan of action.

And fabricating evidence with a spy roll? Why do you need a spy roll to do that for? Just fire photoshop and go to work.

Spy rolls need to be for specific actions that are carried out against another person or nation.

Not this randomly vague business that when it fails the person gets off scot free because there is no rp tied to it.

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Some stuff doesn't require anything at all. "Fabricating evidence" means making it up to snuff to inspection: for instance, you can literally "backtrace" a Photoshop if done poorly. And if you just fail to make good evidence, why even go forward to put it out?

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It still makes no sense that you'd use a spy roll to fabricate evidence unless you were entering into the country to do something sneaky.

Then it's a bit more than fabricating evidence.

They need be specific in what they are asking to do. I'm of the belief most of this stuff doesn't really require a spy roll, they just need to RP the damn thing and be done with it.

Now if they are photoshopping pictures of soldiers bayoneting babies then by all means a spy roll could be a good determination if your nations labs are up to spec enough to decide if they are legit or not.

That or hire the CNRP version of Bros to sign off on the photos.

Like I said before.. there is just too many vague requests without specifics. I'd like to see more of the exactly how something is going to be performed.

And then see it performed and if the RP warrants it.. the action succeed.

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[quote name='Justinian the Mighty' timestamp='1313121720' post='2778337']
I agree, sometimes spy roll requests are really broad. I think this has been brought up before and the consensus was to have rp first then request spy rolls. That way there are consequences for failed rolls instead of just rewards.
[/quote]

This.

RP, as in preperation for the infiltration or whatever, should be done before the spy roll. It would also make for interesting RP if the spy is caught.

Edited by Aggressivenutmeg
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1) Spy rolls always should have to be done with the resources of a nation state behind them. Odds are a result of your in game nation strength, therefore it must be tied to it. If this is a private intel agency working for a nation state so be it, if its a government intel agency of the nation state so be it. It always must be retraceable in the cases of failure, plus maybe some additional spy rolls.

2) Neither offense or defense should be perfect, there should be multiple spy rolls for high level infiltration or frame jobs.

3) Nobody is required to believe a spy roll produced frame job, but there should be a reason for not believing it too (no blind contrarianism).

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[quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' timestamp='1313124204' post='2778375']
So are you CNRP's version of the Tea Party?
[/quote]
No, I'm emulating Executiveminister a few months ago

[quote] It always must be retraceable in the cases of failure[/quote]
There are some things you can't really just "trace", and things that could ordinarily be traced but simply can't due to good RP or proper preventative measures. An arbitrary rule making everything traceable is a terrible idea, especially coming from you

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I just want to see some specifics behind the requests in form of some sort of supporting role play.All to often I see random requests on the GM thread with no apparent connection to any sort of rp. If it fails, we see nothing about it ever again.

I'd rather see the

Screen shot
link to the supporting rp
and a explanation of what is going to happen if needed.

How where and when isn't too much to ask when these requests are being used to adversely affect another person's nation and role play.

That's not big government by the way, that's just rp, but I'll agree that maybe that's too much to ask from some folks.

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[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1313125193' post='2778387']
No, I'm emulating Executiveminister a few months ago


There are some things you can't really just "trace", and things that could ordinarily be traced but simply can't due to good RP or proper preventative measures. An arbitrary rule making everything traceable is a terrible idea, especially coming from you
[/quote]

No offense or defense can be considered perfect. If I as the spy roller out RP the spy rollee thats fine, the reverse also has to be true.

As a note most of my covert strikes have not had any spy rolls but were rather well planned military operations, against opponents with piss poor planning.

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[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1313125955' post='2778404']
No offense or defense can be considered perfect. If I as the spy roller out RP the spy rollee thats fine, the reverse also has to be true.

As a note most of my covert strikes have not had any spy rolls but were rather well planned military operations, against opponents with piss poor planning.
[/quote]

Nothing is 100% perfect, but you can get to 99.99% or to the point where the only way to find out what happened is with metagaming. This, of course, requires well-planned operations and usually also relies on piss-poor planning by your opponents, but [b]mandating an OOC rule[/b] that everything must have a hole in it to be found out is flawed. Especially if you have to point out to everyone just what exactly is traceable, and then come the arguments of whether or not they would have traced it back without metagaming, etc., etc.

We already do a well-enough job as a community policing ourselves. Unless there are situations in which someone did something and then bailed out that would have required an RP'd failure (like infiltrating a nation; not just taking pictures or fabricating evidence) and we failed to act on it, then this is an entirely made-up crisis.

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[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1313126488' post='2778418']
As all of us are incompetent at planning actual covert operations, its safe to say any of us who RP an operation will have holes in our operational planning. Its up to both to outwit the other in that context.
[/quote]

Then I see no need for a rule.

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There really is no need for a new rule as a ruling has already been made in the past supporting sufficient rp for a roll, however the community seemed to want a more loose approach again. If it is the community's desire we will happily enforce the original ruling again to require sufficient rp for a roll.

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Fair enough, but be warned, any spy rolls used against me will be accompanied by sufficient role play to justify the results of the role or the roller can stuff it up his/her hind parts.

I'm all for looser community standards, but not at the expense of being forced to rp damages due to some lazy slacker making a screen shot of their spy attempt screens and posting it on the GM thread.

Not on, not happening, no way.. no how.

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