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I do feel I must throw in a couple comments myself. Although I cant take credit for it's creation I was there darn near the beginning. VA was an alliance I once loved and served loyally. The days with Conner and Mrott as Lord Protectors were our glory days. I think both Mrott and Conner also summed it up best with what they said and there's no sense in essentially repeating what's already here. It was sad to see the demise of a once great alliance. To hear that Mankiller is Lord Protector of DB4D, well all I can say to that is, I cant believe that the lessons of VA are now going to take down another alliance. The only good thing to come from this is that the VA name will cease to exist, the shame that it began to represent will be gone.

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[quote name='boskosbigdawgs' timestamp='1313110790' post='2778096']
I do feel I must throw in a couple comments myself. Although I cant take credit for it's creation I was there darn near the beginning. VA was an alliance I once loved and served loyally. The days with Conner and Mrott as Lord Protectors were our glory days. I think both Mrott and Conner also summed it up best with what they said and there's no sense in essentially repeating what's already here. It was sad to see the demise of a once great alliance. To hear that Mankiller is Lord Protector of DB4D, well all I can say to that is, I cant believe that the lessons of VA are now going to take down another alliance. The only good thing to come from this is that the VA name will cease to exist, the shame that it began to represent will be gone.
[/quote]

Then you should be pleased to know that there is no such a thing as a Lord Protector in DB4D, and my position as leader of of the alliance has not changed. We do appreciate your genuine concern though. :)

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[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313111535' post='2778111']
Then you should be pleased to know that there is no such a thing as a Lord Protector in DB4D, and my position as leader of of the alliance has not changed. We do appreciate your genuine concern though. :)
[/quote]


Not much of a difference between you two. Although, we both know Wifey runs things, just like she pulled Erixxx's strings in VA. Common denominator...neither of you have a lick of leadership qualities and added together, you have 1/2 a set of cojones.

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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313116168' post='2778225']
Not much of a difference between you two. Although, we both know Wifey runs things, just like she pulled Erixxx's strings in VA. Common denominator...neither of you have a lick of leadership qualities and added together, you have 1/2 a set of cojones.
[/quote]

Cool story bro :lol1:

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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313116168' post='2778225']
Not much of a difference between you two. Although, we both know Wifey runs things, just like she pulled Erixxx's strings in VA. Common denominator...neither of you have a lick of leadership qualities and added together, you have 1/2 a set of cojones.
[/quote]

Awwww how cute. It looks like little old connor is taking this one to the cheeks lol
Your idea of "leadership" is being a lapdog, so no, we don't have that which you consider to be leadership qualities.

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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313034972' post='2777225']
VA died the day we settled for Erixxx as a leader.
[/quote]
I might get behind you guys if one of you didn't appoint him and then start pointing fingers when it didn't go down the way you planned

[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313030499' post='2777158']
No, I'm saying it was acceptable for VA to choose to opt out of defending an "ally" who themselves opted out of defending them previously. Especially when said "ally", in both situations was acting only in the interest of a party unrelated to VA. Not everybody appreciates being used. Having a strong opinion, and "dictating" are two different things.
[/quote]
You are wrong. You don't opt out of defending an ally when they request your help, ever, unless your alliance is horrible. Just as I told them when I was there, if they didn't want to fight for TPF, they should have canceled the treaty. The treaty was not canceled, they STILL didn't fight even after saying they would, and at that point I knew I had to leave.

Edited by wanderofys
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[quote name='mrott' timestamp='1313024426' post='2777077']
Praise the Lord, VA can finally be put to rest. This alliance has long since been dead and has been just dragged through the mud for the longest time. This at one point used to be a relatively grand alliance, particularly relating back to the days around SSSW18 and DefCon. VA was at the very least a force to be recognized. It began to dwindle and die then. How long ago was that? A long effing time ago. It has since continued to dwindle and good quality gov just couldn't be found. The alliance made do with what it had and it continued to dwindle. Finally the fallout began and that was when the alliance should have been dismantled. It wasn't... I even stuck around hoping it could be saved and brought back. I knew it was a dim shot in hell but after all my time invested it was worth it to me. In the end I through in the towel as well. I had no choice. VA was dead to me as well as to anyone that actually knew what VA truly really was at its prime.

Interestingly enough, upon my resignation I made a prediction. I don't recall exactly what all was in it, but I do know that I stated outright that TPF would cancel it's treaty with VA (happened not all that long ago) and VA would merge with DB4D. Am I good? No... I'm just not blind. The individuals leading VA were too concerned what DB4D gov had to say rather than digging deep to find their own balls to make their own decisions on what they should do when it comes to honoring treaties and such and in turn allowed DB4D to dictate how the VA gov should run the alliance.

Have you ever let a smaller, less significant dictate how to run your alliance? Well this is the way the VA gov wanted to do it. If you didn't before, do you now understand why they merged?

Honestly I am shocked that NEW agreed to a treaty with them. VA only had one alliance left to turn to and that was DB4D. They must have been desperate since it appears that they are letting mankiller run the show over there. That might be the worst decision yet...and reading through this post alone I have made reference to just a few.

To sum all this up:

- VA has been dead for a long time, glad to finally see it's name no longer disgraced.
- NEW, not to tell you how to run your show since I do respect your alliance and your members, but I would reconsider the treaty.
- To the new "DB4D" I guess we'll be seeing a merger or dismemberment announcement from you in the not so distant future.

o/ those who remember the true VA
[/quote]




You seem bitter..... <_<

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[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1313180159' post='2778766']
You seem bitter..... <_<
[/quote]

Well, what do you expect. The people who built the alliance being bitter in the revelation that they put their trust in the wrong person (something they apparently recognized some time ago as they departed, but alas, everybody makes mistakes.) somebody who took actions that ran counter-productive to the ideals that the founders thought the alliance should stand for, and somebody who allowed the alliance to be controlled by what some might refer to as characters of ill repute.

I don't know that JWConner or mrott are bitter, it would seem that things turned out exactly as they predicted they would. The person they put their trust in ran something Conner and mrott (amongst others) put so much time into building the ground, with no less then a more then sufficient amount of help from DB4D. I think it'd be reasonable for them to be bitter, but I think it would appear that they are more relieved then anything.

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[quote name='wanderofys' timestamp='1313144744' post='2778509']
I might get behind you guys if one of you didn't appoint him and then start pointing fingers when it didn't go down the way you planned


You are wrong. [b]You don't opt out of defending an ally when they request your help[/b], ever, unless your alliance is horrible. Just as I told them when I was there, if they didn't want to fight for TPF, they should have canceled the treaty. The treaty was not canceled, they STILL didn't fight even after saying they would, and at that point I knew I had to leave.
[/quote]

You seem to have conveniently forgotten a few facts.

TPF first refused to help VA when VA requested, on the grounds that the nature of their treaty did not obligate them to get involved. How can this be acceptable, yet when VA refuses on those same grounds it's considered unacceptable? VA was only going off of TPF's interpretation of their treaty.

Furthermore, why didn't TPF just cancel if they didn't want to help VA, as you said should be the appropriate action, instead of go on and expect VA to obediently jump to their aid at a later time? As much as you may want to ignore it, double standards were at play.

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[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313188878' post='2778902']
You seem to have conveniently forgotten a few facts.

TPF first refused to help VA when VA requested, on the grounds that the nature of their treaty did not obligate them to get involved. How can this be acceptable, yet when VA refuses on those same grounds it's considered unacceptable? VA was only going off of TPF's interpretation of their treaty.

Furthermore, why didn't TPF just cancel if they didn't want to help VA, as you said should be the appropriate action, instead of go on and expect VA to obediently jump to their aid at a later time? As much as you may want to ignore it, double standards were at play.
[/quote]
You seem to conveniently have been left out of the information loop. TPF was told at first that VA would ride out. When nothing else was heard attempts to contact VA were made to no avail. Then a month or so later we were "informed" that VA was too inactive to participate in a war. Why is it that they could participate in one war and not another?

I think the problem here lies within DB4D and not VA. VA has never before been chafe in the wind until DB4D started pulling her strings. TPF has never sought to pull VA's strings, but we have sought honesty and integrity. That is all we have ever given and that is all we have ever expected. That which you lack will be your undoing.

Edited by Judge X
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I like how of all the people arguing for VA, it's Aryan. That makes me laugh more than anything. That just shows how much DB4D was involved with VA internal affairs, which eventually resulted in VA's downfall.

When VA was at war, and TPF was out, it wasn't that TPF refused to go in. VA never requested TPF's assistance and in discussions with TPF at that time, I was handling military affairs, as there was nobody else taking up the slack. I was the one working with TPF and I was the one who came to an agreement with TPF that in that war, we didn't request TPF's assistance because they'd just gotten their ******* handed to them in a different war. Don't start bawing about how TPF didn't aid or assist VA in that war. It was agreed upon by both alliances that they didn't enter.

Now, in this last war, VA straight LIED to TPF and hid from the war. Erixxxx was asked, in person in chat, if VA would be honoring the treaty....and his response was YES. Not that they didn't have the activity, not that since TPF didn't assist in VA's war that they wouldnt, none of those. he said YES. Him lying and changing his mind is solely based on DB4D and friends not wanting to get beat down. you took mankiller's stance and ran and hid. There's no way to sugarcoat that. Plain and simple, you were scared and you let DB4D dictate your internal decisions.

Oh, and bitter? Not at all. I'm ecstatic that they can't trash my alliance anymore.

And wander, yeah, i agree, we made a horrible decision and we regretted it til we left. We should never have settled for Erixxxx. We both had RL situations where neither could lead anymore, and our best option was Erixxxx, which unfortunately ended up being the downfall of VA. Such is life, we all move on.

And if I didn't make it clear, I'm ******* elated that VA is finally put to rest.

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[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1313194811' post='2778968']
You seem to conveniently have been left out of the information loop. TPF was told at first that VA would ride out. When nothing else was heard attempts to contact VA were made to no avail. Then a month or so later we were "informed" that VA was too inactive to participate in a war. Why is it that they could participate in one war and not another?

I think the problem here lies within DB4D and not VA. VA has never before been chafe in the wind until DB4D started pulling her strings. TPF has never sought to pull VA's strings, but we have sought honesty and integrity. That is all we have ever given and that is all we have ever expected. That which you lack will be your undoing.
[/quote]

You are missing the first part all together. When VA had planned to go to war in defense of WFF during the NEW conflict, VA asked TPF for assistance. That's when TPF decided they weren't going to defend VA if VA defended WFF. Why is this part being ignored?

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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313196342' post='2778981']


Oh, and bitter? Not at all. I'm ecstatic that they can't trash my alliance anymore.


[/quote]


Well it stopped being your alliance once you left it. If you truly supported VA, you would've stayed and not ran away to TPF when things weren't going your way. I don't know why you are making such a big deal about this since you left under your own will.... you're the one who chose to leave, but yet you still call VA YOUR alliance. sir that is just ridiculous. you are just trying to start a fight.

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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313196342' post='2778981']
I like how of all the people arguing for VA, it's Aryan. That makes me laugh more than anything. That just shows how much DB4D was involved with VA internal affairs, which eventually resulted in VA's downfall.

When VA was at war, and TPF was out, it wasn't that TPF refused to go in. VA never requested TPF's assistance and in discussions with TPF at that time, I was handling military affairs, as there was nobody else taking up the slack. I was the one working with TPF and I was the one who came to an agreement with TPF that in that war, we didn't request TPF's assistance because they'd just gotten their ******* handed to them in a different war. Don't start bawing about how TPF didn't aid or assist VA in that war. It was agreed upon by both alliances that they didn't enter.

Now, in this last war, VA straight LIED to TPF and hid from the war. Erixxxx was asked, in person in chat, if VA would be honoring the treaty....and his response was YES. Not that they didn't have the activity, not that since TPF didn't assist in VA's war that they wouldnt, none of those. he said YES. Him lying and changing his mind is solely based on DB4D and friends not wanting to get beat down. you took mankiller's stance and ran and hid. There's no way to sugarcoat that. Plain and simple, you were scared and you let DB4D dictate your internal decisions.

Oh, and bitter? Not at all. I'm ecstatic that they can't trash my alliance anymore.

And wander, yeah, i agree, we made a horrible decision and we regretted it til we left. We should never have settled for Erixxxx. We both had RL situations where neither could lead anymore, and our best option was Erixxxx, which unfortunately ended up being the downfall of VA. Such is life, we all move on.

And if I didn't make it clear, I'm ******* elated that VA is finally put to rest.
[/quote]

I love how you twist the truth, I guess that's what makes you a good propaganda minister, heh?

I've already seen the conversation where Mhawk specifically told Erixxx that they won't be defending them, using his interpretation of the treaty as an excuse. That would be highly unnecessary if both had agreed that TPF shouldn't help in the first place. But let's not let logic and facts get in the way of your VA slamming session lol

I'm done with this one now. You may continue to show your class by slamming a disbanded alliance ad nauseum, it is very becoming of you.

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[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313188878' post='2778902']
You seem to have conveniently forgotten a few facts.

TPF first refused to help VA when VA requested, on the grounds that the nature of their treaty did not obligate them to get involved. How can this be acceptable, yet when VA refuses on those same grounds it's considered unacceptable? VA was only going off of TPF's interpretation of their treaty.
[/quote]
Because I thought we were better than that. Apparently we weren't, but I thought we were. I saw the mhawk convo too, I remember it, but I thought we might show who the better alliance was. We didn't.

Edited by wanderofys
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[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313199082' post='2778998']
You are missing the first part all together. When VA had planned to go to war in defense of WFF during the NEW conflict, VA asked TPF for assistance. That's when TPF decided they weren't going to defend VA if VA defended WFF. Why is this part being ignored?
[/quote]

I find this to be very unlikely. Some representative of TPF came to us during the DF-NEW war saying that they would like to help us fighting the war. We appreciated their offer and asked them to stay out since we were no longer sharing any treaty to warrant their assistance.

Now are you telling me that should VA entered to help WFF which is basically helping us, then TPF would have sit out ... ?

Either what you said is not accurate or TPF‘s offer to help us was just an empty promise knowing that we would have said no to the offer anyway.

Do you have proof of the convo? Please send to us in private channel if posting here make you uncomfortable.

JWConnor also stated conflicting statement rebuffing your claim.

Edited by suryanto tan
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[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1313199957' post='2779010']
I'm done with this one now. You may continue to show your class by slamming a disbanded alliance ad nauseum, it is very becoming of you.
[/quote]

I'm not slamming the alliance, per se, more slamming the jackasses that tore it down and were too inept to lead it...aka Erixxx and mankiller. Those were the 2 most active government members and we unfortunately thought activity would lead to competence. Boy, were we wrong. Kinda like how DB4D is ran. :D

Anyways, going back to the whole VA-WFF-NEW war ordeal, it was decided, between VA and WFF, that VA didn't go in. We all decided that not linking TPF to go in was the right move, as they had recently been beaten down. I had no question that TPF would support us if we truly asked them. There was questioning whether it was the right move, politically, to get them involved, but we never asked them and they never said NO. So all this about how TPF refused VA and how that's justification for VA lying to TPF is a bunch of BS. Fact is, TPF never lied to VA. TPF stood with VA even when VA did some pretty stupid things (even when I was leading). Fact is, VA ended this relationship by being distrustful and horrible allies.

That's why I'm ecstatic MY alliance can no longer be dragged through the mud. Because MY alliance long ago ended, yet it's name continued to be tarnished and all the good we did was overshadowed by all the crap done over the past nearly 2 years. I'm not slamming a disbanded alliance. I'm rejoicing in the fact that my alliance can finally rest and the ones who destroyed it are finally gone from it.

Edited by JWConner
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[quote name='JWConner' timestamp='1313343211' post='2780641']


That's why I'm ecstatic MY alliance can no longer be dragged through the mud. Because MY alliance long ago ended, yet it's name continued to be tarnished and all the good we did was overshadowed by all the crap done over the past nearly 2 years. I'm not slamming a disbanded alliance. I'm rejoicing in the fact that my alliance can finally rest and the ones who destroyed it are finally gone from it.
[/quote]


But.... its not your alliance anymore... soooooooo i dont know where your going with this.... and how do you know how DB4D is ran? please explain that one.

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[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1313369042' post='2780956']
This is funny. My apologies to JWConner for what happened to VA. I feel for you.
[/quote]

lol, yeah. I took a lot of the flack over the past 2 years for things that happened with VA, when I wasn't the one really calling the shots. I was just the one the public saw as the one calling the shots.


And Steinfeld, I know plenty on how things are ran in DB4D. You know how I know? Because they influenced how Erixxxx led VA. Kinda simple, eh?

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