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[quote name='Natan' timestamp='1312445195' post='2771676']
To Xiph, one of your main criticisms is the way you treat alliances, often allies of allies, and then expect them to just fall into line when it comes to war, putting their nations on the line for you just because they are allied to one of your allies. What would you say to this?[/quote]

I'd say it's trumped up nonsense, tbh. You're intimately aware of the fight Roq and I had, but that was probably the only time I've lost my cool like that - and I apologized fairly fast for it. Beyond that, I don't think I've treated 'allies of my allies' like !@#$ - certainly no more than you or several others that jump to mind. We both know what I'm talking about on that one. :P

[quote]You wouldn't have tried to avoid the RoK fiasco (including both RoK and RIA) by keeping the original polaris declaration SF based, as originally planned? Or abiding by actual coalition plans instead of just attacking whoever you wanted? [/quote]

A) VE had the CB, not SF. There was no way in hell SF was ever going to lead on that war - only GOD, max.
B) If the question is "If you had a time machine" then yes, I'd certainly try and head off the RoK fiasco by talking to Taut about it directly, earlier. But if we're presuming I knew as much as I did then - what issues might I have just not bothered with? Then that's what I answered.

[quote]In hindsight, would you have done anything differently with the RnR-UINE war (the one before the one where VE declared on polaris) or the NEW war?[/quote]

UINE? Yeah, I would've liked to see R&R roll them the first time. It did seem truly pointless that it just ended up happening anyway. NEW? No. That was so far out of everyone's hands, it's hard to regret anything about it.

[quote]Who do you think SF's top three most important OTPs are? Why? [/quote]

What on Earth is an OTP?

[quote]Do you view SF and XX as a single entity? One that can not be broken up (in the next war, not forever) regardless of where the war starts? [/quote]

No, but I view it as a good working relationship.

[quote]What alliance or treaty will come into play most for SF next war?[/quote]

VE-GOD or CSN-GOONS.

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312444777' post='2771673']
To all leaders: what are your thoughs on NG? Just be frank and open about it.
Also, where do you see PB going? There's a lot of speculations about PB as a unified entity and I'm wondering what you guys think about it.
[/quote]

My only interaction with NG has been through one of your Tri's. And it was so he could complain about tech deals, it was annoying and obnoxious... over 6 tech deals... it was top 10 most stupid conversations I've ever had to endure. But I'm going to chalk it up to an off day. NG as a whole? Don't know you as your respectively whole selves now, could you be different? Sure. Are you? Unlikely.
I'm going to go with not a fan, though Mixer seems pretty awesome.

PB? Couldn't tell you. From the outside, seems pretty unified based on last war. Present day? Seems like FA is all over the place, but a united core nevertheless. Of course, we all know whose getting pressure on their treaties and who isn't lately.

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[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1312444777' post='2771673']
To all leaders: what are your thoughs on NG? Just be frank and open about it.
Also, where do you see PB going? There's a lot of speculations about PB as a unified entity and I'm wondering what you guys think about it.
[/quote]
With regard to NG, I think I'm sort of in the awkward position that almost every alliance RIA has found itself having some political issue with in the last year or so wound up merging into your alliance. I'm fairly certain you guys don't really like us. I don't think my members are particularly enamored by you. Personally, I very much doubt we'll ever be very close as alliances, but at this point, I otherwise don't really care at all. If you don't try to harm us, I'd be pretty content more or less ignoring you. Do I have any of that wrong in your opinion?

PB, I don't know. I think a number of PB alliances want to go in different directions. That could result in pretty much anything happening, with PB all going in one of a few directions, or breaking up. I don't know enough to speak to the possibility of that happening either way. If I had a firm guess as to what PB will do, I'd tell you, but I'd pretty much have to flip a coin to put down a hard answer.

I guess that is some sort of an answer.

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[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1312440347' post='2771613']
Because we're more cohesive now. Same as when RoK pulled out. We're tighter than ever with just us four.
[/quote]

So Fark and RoK were more of destabilising influences? In the case of RoK, i can get the FA directions being at odds or not in complete concert with rest of SF might make them out to be somewhat destabilising, but Fark?

-----

Also, any truth the older whispers about Xiph & iClean looking for ways and means to roll RoK? Or to get them rolled? Post RoK's exit from SF.
-----

@Delta, how much of the NG/SF animus is based on issues PC might have had with former SF signatories? Is there any impact from that history on current SF interaction with or on opinion of NG?

Edited by Alfred von Tirpitz
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[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1312442950' post='2771650']
Because there's been quite a bit of false stories floating around lately that happen to involve us. I've always been a fan of transparency - no use beating around the bush, I'd rather the truth be out there, for good and bad.
[/quote]

Wouldn't be easier to SF specify what stories are floating around and why they are false? Don't get me wrong, I wish that what you are doing here used to happen with more frequency and all blocs and alliances did it, I'm not the back channels type and never was so I really appreciate this move, but since SF looks interested in clarifying one specific issue, so couldn't we get it straight? What false stories are being released by people like Ardus? And, if possible, who besides Ardus is fabricating them? I believe we can at least determine the objective behind it? Isolate SF to allows your destruction?

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[quote name='Liz Girard' timestamp='1312445876' post='2771681']
My only interaction with NG has been through one of your Tri's. And it was so he could complain about tech deals, it was annoying and obnoxious... over 6 tech deals... it was top 10 most stupid conversations I've ever had to endure. But I'm going to chalk it up to an off day. NG as a whole? Don't know you as your respectively whole selves now, could you be different? Sure. Are you? Unlikely.
I'm going to go with not a fan, though Mixer seems pretty awesome.

PB? Couldn't tell you. From the outside, seems pretty unified based on last war. Present day? Seems like FA is all over the place, but a united core nevertheless. Of course, we all know whose getting pressure on their treaties and who isn't lately.
[/quote]

Let's all post those logs and see who was acting like a little !@#$ ok? Also, you are a big fat liar. I changed my mind, I'm going to explain the problem in a bit more detail. These were not 6 techdeals, these were 30-35 techdeals you engaged without notifying any of us in advance. You didn't know if those dealers were already taken up by NG, or that if they were waiting for something else. Normally, alliance-wide techdeals are agreed upon by the receiving alliance too. I think that's pretty much how it works. Besides that, the real reason I came to you wasn't even related to the techdeals directly but were related to us suspecting WE had a spy/leak in our ranks. If you were able to properly read what I told you in a query instead of being offended by me claiming WE had a leak in our alliance.

No you just took that as me trying to state that you were spying on us and then acting like yourself, a whiny !@#$%*. I had no problems with CSN until I spoke to you. You are worse than Xiph and Delta combined.

Edited by kriekfreak
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[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1312445935' post='2771683']
So Fark and RoK were more of destabilising influences? In the case of RoK, i can get the FA directions being at odds or not in complete concert with rest of SF might make them out to be somewhat destabilising, but Fark?[/quote]

The issue with regards to FARK was that they had a fundamental difference in opinion on whether to be 'out front' or kick it in the shadows for the SG period [or whether there even was a SG]. Hoo, me, Delta and all preferred to be out front doing things and FARK was just not liking it. I know it nearly drove RoK out of the bloc a couple of times, so I think it's safe to say that it was destabilizing. To their credit, they knew leaving but remaining allied to us would make for a much friendlier relationship all around, and it has.

[quote]Also, any truth the older whispers about Xiph & iClean looking for ways and means to roll RoK? Or to get them rolled? Post RoK's exit from SF.
[/quote]

[i]Hell[/i] no. Balder was upset, but it was hurt - not anger. Same for me.

[quote]so couldn't we get it straight? What false stories are being released by people like Ardus? And, if possible, who besides Ardus is fabricating them? I believe we can at least determine the objective behind it? Isolate SF to allows your destruction? [/quote]

You've seen a few in here: that I told Sardonic MK was signing with DT [I didn't] and that I spread some rumor about Gre and MK [also didn't]. But we hear the fabrications piecemeal - they occur largely in private QnA's SF isn't privy to. But we know people can tell it doesn't sound right, so this is a chance for them to check it. And yes, I think the motive behind faking is rather clear.

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For all:
How would you rate your performance in the last war?

Given that CSN seem to have some magical sway over GOONS, what are the other three member's opinions of them?


For GOD:
Do you feel that your freedom to attack who you wanted rather than who you were needed to (assuming some disagreement over that) was shared by other members of the coalition?

If not, and again assuming that there was some kind of disagreement over who was needed where, would you accept an alliance in a future coalition doing the same based on where they thought they were/weren't needed and not where you thought they should go?


For RIA:
Six months after the event do you still think that your decision to fight on both sides was the right/reasonable one?

Do you feel that any relationships or potential ones were damage or improved by doing so?


For R&R:
How long can you realistically remain a member of two major military blocs moving forward?

Do you see any difference from being in SF/LEO and SF/XX?

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Xiphosis: I'll spare you some time and note to you that we actually don't care if you think your accusations are true. Here's the frank reality of your situation: for awhile, you had a fair amount of political capital, and you abused it to callously threaten others whenever one of your numerous fits of paranoia and megalomania came upon you. Now you're political persona non-grata and a liability to your allies, and you're furiously backpedaling as a result. Your participation in this thread is in keeping with that, and I suspect it'll meet with as much success as the numerous other highly-transparent acts of false contrition perpetrated by yourself and your ambassadors in the recent past.

Buenos noches.

Edited by Crymson
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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1312448203' post='2771694']
Xiphosis: I'll spare you some time and note to you that we really don't care if you think your accusations are true. Here's the frank reality of the situation: for a time, you had political capital and you used it to threaten us and many others; now you're political persona non-grata and a liability to your allies, and you're[b] furiously backpedaling[/b] as a result. I doubt you'll meet with much success. But in the meantime, thank you for the entertainment you're providing to so many people here.

Buenos noches!
[/quote]

To be fair he [u]still [/u]wants to force an alliance to disband.

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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1312448203' post='2771694']
Xiphosis: I'll spare you some time and note to you that we actually don't care if you think your accusations are true. Here's the frank reality of the situation: for awhile, you had a fair amount of political capital, and you abused it to callously threaten others whenever one of your numerous fits of paranoia and megalomania came upon you. Now you're political persona non-grata and a liability to your allies, and you're furiously backpedaling as a result. I doubt you'll meet with much success. But in the meantime, you should feel good about yourself for the quality entertainment you're providing to so many people in this thread.

Buenos noches!
[/quote]
First, if he were backpedaling, you wouldn't have been arguing with him. I don't think you actually know what the word means. Second, hello, pot. The fact that you can't read irony in your own post is a tragedy, especially when you actually [I]did[/I] backpedal pre-BiPolar on almost every issue we ever argued on before when trying to cuddle up to SF, and then promptly reverted back to type when that didn't work.

Edited by Delta1212
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[quote name='Kowalski' timestamp='1312447620' post='2771691']
For all:
How would you rate your performance in the last war?[/quote]

We did good, I'll let the others talk about their individual performances - I didn't watch.

[quote]Given that CSN seem to have some magical sway over GOONS, what are the other three member's opinions of them?[/quote]

As was said endlessly by both the GOONS and GOD posters in our cancellation thread, we really were tight and I still like them a lot. It just frayed my relationship with Sardonic.

[quote]For GOD:
Do you feel that your freedom to attack who you wanted rather than who you were needed to (assuming some disagreement over that) was shared by other members of the coalition? [/quote]

Eh, yeah. PB coordinated that war - Umb and VE especially - they did choose their targets, and others [like FAN] did as well. A large part of it was strategic, there's no denying that, but I don't think we hurt much by going where we did, honestly. Do you?

[quote]If not, and again assuming that there was some kind of disagreement over who was needed where, would you accept an alliance in a future coalition doing the same based on where they thought they were/weren't needed and not where you thought they should go?[/quote]

Don't know if you're aware of this, but this has happened frequently in every war I've been apart of back to UJW. It's just not something people shout from the roof tops.

[quote]Does R&R's membership in XX put any strain on their relationship with SF?[/quote]

We thought it would, but no, not so far.

[quote]Thoughts on PF?[/quote]

"Yay, more folks TOP will try and throw at us." Also "Why is OMFG in a new Citadel weren't they allied to Legion back during the original one? So confused." - but Umb and others have answered that [long relationship with TOP, etc].

[quote]I feel dirty saying this, but this thread is making me more sympathetic towards Xiph. He makes some good points about disbandment.[/quote]

Resisting temptation to post a picture of Austin Powers.

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I wish people would give me more time to edit my posts before responding to them. Geeze :unsure:

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1312448693' post='2771696']
First, if he were backpedaling, you wouldn't have been arguing with him. I don't think you actually know what the word means. Second, hello, pot. The fact that you can't read irony in your own post is a tragedy, especially when you actually did [I]did[/I] backpedal pre-BiPolar on almost every issue we ever argued on before when trying to cuddle up go SF, and then promptly reverted back to type when that didn't work.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but I can't hear you. You'll have to speak into the microphone.

Edited by Crymson
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[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1312447379' post='2771688']
The issue with regards to FARK was that they had a fundamental difference in opinion on whether to be 'out front' or kick it in the shadows for the SG period [or whether there even was a SG]. Hoo, me, Delta and all preferred to be out front doing things and FARK was just not liking it. I know it nearly drove RoK out of the bloc a couple of times, so I think it's safe to say that it was destabilizing. To their credit, they knew leaving but remaining allied to us would make for a much friendlier relationship all around, and it has.
[/quote]

To be honest, Fark might exit arose on my radar about the time WickedJ decided to use an online log pasting service instead of quote tags.

Edited by Alfred von Tirpitz
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[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1312448801' post='2771700']
To be honest, Fark might exit arose on my radar about the time WickedJ decided to use an online log pasting service instead of quote tags.
[/quote]

Yeah, there were lots of times where people wanted to leave because of each other - usually GOD/RoK on one side, FARK on the other, and RIA mediating. Went on for like a year, and I think we were all happy to be done with that squabble. I know Hoo and I were.

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[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312447030' post='2771685']
Let's all post those logs and see who was acting like a little !@#$ ok? Also, you are a big fat liar. I changed my mind, I'm going to explain the problem in a bit more detail. These were not 6 techdeals, these were 30-35 techdeals you engaged without notifying any of us in advance. You didn't know if those dealers were already taken up by NG, or that if they were waiting for something else. Normally, alliance-wide techdeals are agreed upon by the receiving alliance too. I think that's pretty much how it works. Besides that, the real reason I came to you wasn't even related to the techdeals directly but were related to us suspecting WE had a spy/leak in our ranks. If you were able to properly read what I told you in a query instead of being offended by me claiming WE had a leak in our alliance.

No you just took that as me trying to state that you were spying on us and then acting like yourself, a whiny !@#$%*. I had no problems with CSN until I spoke to you. You are worse than Xiph and Delta combined.
[/quote]
They were six tech deals. Between Non Grata and the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations, there were six tech deals. Flat out. Any more than that and you were dealing with another alliance; not us. Notifying an alliance that you are going to tech deal with them is only something that's done formally if it's going to be done in mass. At least, that's how I've always done it. Not every single tech deal is arranged between two governments.

What Liz got out of that conversation was that you accused us of accepting material from a spy, which is a pretty good CB these days. She explained how our buyers found the NG sellers in your second query. Then you started rambling about how we didn't know NG internal structure.

First logs:

[spoiler][15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <arexes2[NG]> double click
[15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <Liz> Excuse me?
[15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <arexes2[NG]> just double clicking your name so that a query starts you know
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <Liz> Oh.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> so
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> I take it you have read the eaton logs?
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <Liz> I have.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> aight
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> I'm not sure I communicated the problem properly with him
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> so I'll give a recap
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> it appears that someone has given one or multiple guys our techseller list
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> we don't normally techdeal with people outside of ourselves and primary allies
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <Liz> We actually don't have an NG seller list.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> I believe you
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <Liz> I'm Director of Finance as well, so I'd know.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> let me link to the thing
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?Page=4&searchstring=Declaring_Alliance,Receiving_Alliance&search=Non%20Grata
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> seems Ruler: Ivanku was the first to aid
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> so I'm trying to find out how and why those CSN nations started sending techdeals to our nations
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> I'd suggest reiterating to members not to accept deals, our buyers just randomly go through aid screens.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> because we might have a spy who is leaking the list to you
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> (you as in CSN)
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> I think you may be overstepping some boundaries here.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> You're throwing some wild accusations around now.
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> what?
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> A spy? Leaking a list to me?
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> did you acutally read what I say
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> I didn't say that you send someone or anything
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> lol
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> or imply even
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <Liz> Well, I think one way to sum this is I'll let my guys know not to go looking for your guys. And i'd suggest letting yours know your tech selling policy.
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> I have messaged both the NG nations
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> and the CSN nations
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> to cancel the deal
[15:11] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> I can't promise timely delivery of tech or any at all
[15:11] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> So because your members failed to follow your policy, you're going to take my membesr money and run for deals already accepted?.
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> no
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> those that have been accepted will be completed
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> I'd suggest the tech be delivered or the money returned then.
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> That's fine.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <arexes2[NG]> any future money send to us will be considered gifts
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> If it's a proper tech deal with the aid reason, I wouldn't bank on that.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> I'll make a notice of NG tech sellers.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <arexes2[NG]> I'm telling you now
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> But make sure your members know your policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> I'm telling you now.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> so if you don't proper educate your own members
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> Make sure your members know your policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> It's not CSN's responsibility to know yours.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> I'll make a notice regarding NG sellers.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> it's our alliance
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> not yours
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> Exactly. Know your own policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> so it's not our fault if some aid gets accepted
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> just don't send us any
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> and we'll be fine[/spoiler]


Second logs:

[spoiler][16:41] <arexes[NG]> sup
[16:42] <Liz> Packing. You?
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> nm
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> so euhm
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> Wanna try again from yesterday?
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> your members told me you ordered the techdeals
[16:43] <Liz> Welp, I am the director of Finance. So yeah, I did.
[16:43] <Liz> They should be directed to read our announcement regarding NG deals though.
[16:43] <Liz> Looks like most are cancelling.
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> Why?
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> Why and how did you select those NG dealers?
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> It just doesn't make sense to me
[16:44] <Liz> I went through aid screens.
[16:44] <Liz> Looked through the AA for sellers who had deals going so I knew they'd be reliable, then looked for sellers with slots.
[16:44] <Liz> and doled them out.
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> and you didn't think those dealers would have active deals?
[16:45] <Liz> I looked for that as we..
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> that were perhaps waiting for internal aid?
[16:45] <Liz> well*
[16:45] <Liz> What makes you think I know your interal struture?
[16:45] <Liz> Or care for it for that matter? I looked for sellers. Found them. Used them.
[16:45] <Liz> I know your policy now. I won't actively be looking for NG deals.
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> how did you know they sell?
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> did you pm them personally?
[16:45] <Liz> They had tech deals ongoing?
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> asked them if they wanted a deal?
[16:46] <Liz> Members PMed a few, yeah.
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> if they had techdeals ongoing, you couldn't have aided them
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> could you?
[16:46] <Liz> You could if their slots werent full
[16:46] <Liz> which clearly, they werent..
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> and don't you think NG was starting another stint?
[16:46] <Liz> Dude, are you always this much of a prick?
[16:47] <Liz> I'm not sure what the problem is
[16:47] <Liz> This was over yesterday.
[16:47] <Liz> Do you have other accusations to throw around? Because I'm pretty done now.
[16:47] <arexes[NG]> accusations?
[16:47] <arexes[NG]> where do I accuse you of something?
[16:47] <Liz> What is the point of this query?
[16:47] <Liz> Do you need something?
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> the point of this query is to inquere how this happened
[16:48] <Liz> You got that yesterday.
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> no
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> you didn't say anything about it yesterday
[16:48] <Liz> Well, i guess you'll be left wondering then.
[16:48] <Liz> Adieu.
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> goodbye?[/spoiler]

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[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1312449952' post='2771704']
They were six tech deals. Between Non Grata and the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations, there were six tech deals. Flat out. Any more than that and you were dealing with another alliance; not us. Notifying an alliance that you are going to tech deal with them is only something that's done formally if it's going to be done in mass. At least, that's how I've always done it. Not every single tech deal is arranged between two governments.

What Liz got out of that conversation was that you accused us of accepting material from a spy, which is a pretty good CB these days. She explained how our buyers found the NG sellers in your second query. Then you started rambling about how we didn't know NG internal structure.

First logs:

[spoiler][15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <arexes2[NG]> double click
[15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <Liz> Excuse me?
[15:08] <Liz> [15:04] <arexes2[NG]> just double clicking your name so that a query starts you know
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <Liz> Oh.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> so
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> I take it you have read the eaton logs?
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <Liz> I have.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> aight
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> I'm not sure I communicated the problem properly with him
[15:08] <Liz> [15:05] <arexes2[NG]> so I'll give a recap
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> it appears that someone has given one or multiple guys our techseller list
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> we don't normally techdeal with people outside of ourselves and primary allies
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <Liz> We actually don't have an NG seller list.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> I believe you
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <Liz> I'm Director of Finance as well, so I'd know.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:06] <arexes2[NG]> let me link to the thing
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?Page=4&searchstring=Declaring_Alliance,Receiving_Alliance&search=Non%20Grata
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> seems Ruler: Ivanku was the first to aid
[15:08] <Liz> [15:07] <arexes2[NG]> so I'm trying to find out how and why those CSN nations started sending techdeals to our nations
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> I'd suggest reiterating to members not to accept deals, our buyers just randomly go through aid screens.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> because we might have a spy who is leaking the list to you
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> (you as in CSN)
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> I think you may be overstepping some boundaries here.
[15:08] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> You're throwing some wild accusations around now.
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> what?
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <Liz> A spy? Leaking a list to me?
[15:09] <Liz> [15:08] <arexes2[NG]> did you acutally read what I say
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> I didn't say that you send someone or anything
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> lol
[15:09] <Liz> [15:09] <arexes2[NG]> or imply even
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <Liz> Well, I think one way to sum this is I'll let my guys know not to go looking for your guys. And i'd suggest letting yours know your tech selling policy.
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> I have messaged both the NG nations
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> and the CSN nations
[15:11] <Liz> [15:10] <arexes2[NG]> to cancel the deal
[15:11] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> I can't promise timely delivery of tech or any at all
[15:11] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> So because your members failed to follow your policy, you're going to take my membesr money and run for deals already accepted?.
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> no
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <arexes2[NG]> those that have been accepted will be completed
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> I'd suggest the tech be delivered or the money returned then.
[15:12] <Liz> [15:11] <Liz> That's fine.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <arexes2[NG]> any future money send to us will be considered gifts
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> If it's a proper tech deal with the aid reason, I wouldn't bank on that.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> I'll make a notice of NG tech sellers.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <arexes2[NG]> I'm telling you now
[15:14] <Liz> [15:12] <Liz> But make sure your members know your policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> I'm telling you now.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> so if you don't proper educate your own members
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> Make sure your members know your policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> It's not CSN's responsibility to know yours.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> I'll make a notice regarding NG sellers.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> it's our alliance
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> not yours
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <Liz> Exactly. Know your own policy.
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> so it's not our fault if some aid gets accepted
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> just don't send us any
[15:14] <Liz> [15:13] <arexes2[NG]> and we'll be fine[/spoiler]


Second logs:

[spoiler][16:41] <arexes[NG]> sup
[16:42] <Liz> Packing. You?
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> nm
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> so euhm
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> Wanna try again from yesterday?
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> your members told me you ordered the techdeals
[16:43] <Liz> Welp, I am the director of Finance. So yeah, I did.
[16:43] <Liz> They should be directed to read our announcement regarding NG deals though.
[16:43] <Liz> Looks like most are cancelling.
[16:43] <arexes[NG]> Why?
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> Why and how did you select those NG dealers?
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> It just doesn't make sense to me
[16:44] <Liz> I went through aid screens.
[16:44] <Liz> Looked through the AA for sellers who had deals going so I knew they'd be reliable, then looked for sellers with slots.
[16:44] <Liz> and doled them out.
[16:44] <arexes[NG]> and you didn't think those dealers would have active deals?
[16:45] <Liz> I looked for that as we..
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> that were perhaps waiting for internal aid?
[16:45] <Liz> well*
[16:45] <Liz> What makes you think I know your interal struture?
[16:45] <Liz> Or care for it for that matter? I looked for sellers. Found them. Used them.
[16:45] <Liz> I know your policy now. I won't actively be looking for NG deals.
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> how did you know they sell?
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> did you pm them personally?
[16:45] <Liz> They had tech deals ongoing?
[16:45] <arexes[NG]> asked them if they wanted a deal?
[16:46] <Liz> Members PMed a few, yeah.
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> if they had techdeals ongoing, you couldn't have aided them
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> could you?
[16:46] <Liz> You could if their slots werent full
[16:46] <Liz> which clearly, they werent..
[16:46] <arexes[NG]> and don't you think NG was starting another stint?
[16:46] <Liz> Dude, are you always this much of a prick?
[16:47] <Liz> I'm not sure what the problem is
[16:47] <Liz> This was over yesterday.
[16:47] <Liz> Do you have other accusations to throw around? Because I'm pretty done now.
[16:47] <arexes[NG]> accusations?
[16:47] <arexes[NG]> where do I accuse you of something?
[16:47] <Liz> What is the point of this query?
[16:47] <Liz> Do you need something?
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> the point of this query is to inquere how this happened
[16:48] <Liz> You got that yesterday.
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> no
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> you didn't say anything about it yesterday
[16:48] <Liz> Well, i guess you'll be left wondering then.
[16:48] <Liz> Adieu.
[16:48] <arexes[NG]> goodbye?[/spoiler]
[/quote]

No I think you are mistaken by techdealers and techdeals. Yes 6 techdealers were selected out of the blue who each have 5 slots, that equals 30 deals. Most of them were cancelled [b]after[/b] I told both CSN as NG nations to cancel the aid. I normally don't care much if individuals deals are being started by individual nations. I do however mind if alliance leaders browse my AA to find more than a handful of techdeals without asking us.

I'm also going to point out that Liz refused to contact me about it before I even talked to her (that's before those 'first' logs were posted). I needed to hear that from Sardonic.

Edited by kriekfreak
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Could you name 3 alliances that you feel could become suitable additions to join Superfriends?

Asume here that obvious barriers were removed - i.e. they were to leave their existing blok or say cancel that one non-alliagned treaty etc.

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[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1312450254' post='2771705']
No I think you are mistaken by techdealers and techdeals. Yes 6 techdealers were selected out of the blue who each have 5 slots, that equals 30 deals. Most of them were cancelled [b]after[/b] I told both CSN as NG nations to cancel the aid. I normally don't care much if individuals deals are being started by individual nations. I do however mind if alliance leaders browse my AA to find more than a handful of techdeals without asking us.
[/quote]
You presume we filled all of their slots. We didn't. We sent, at most, 10 offers. That's literally all I saw when I signed on that day, so unless you can prove that to me then I'll have to stick to what I know. And what I know is that we currently have six deals in progress.

Edit:

[spoiler][img]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8831/ngcsntechdeals.png[/img][/spoiler]


[quote]I'm also going to point out that Liz refused to contact me about it before I even talked to her (that's before those 'first' logs were posted). I needed to hear that from Sardonic. [/quote]

What?

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1312450508' post='2771706']
Could you name 3 alliances that you feel could become suitable additions to join Superfriends?

Asume here that obvious barriers were removed - i.e. they were to leave their existing blok or say cancel that one non-alliagned treaty etc.
[/quote]
I can't think of anyone else that I'd invite to SF at the moment.

Edited by Gibsonator21
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[quote name='Liz Girard' timestamp='1312445876' post='2771681']
My only interaction with NG has been through one of your Tri's. And it was so he could complain about tech deals, it was annoying and obnoxious... over 6 tech deals... it was top 10 most stupid conversations I've ever had to endure. But I'm going to chalk it up to an off day. NG as a whole? Don't know you as your respectively whole selves now, could you be different? Sure. Are you? Unlikely.
I'm going to go with not a fan, though Mixer seems pretty awesome.

PB? Couldn't tell you. From the outside, seems pretty unified based on last war. Present day? Seems like FA is all over the place, but a united core nevertheless. Of course, we all know whose getting pressure on their treaties and who isn't lately.
[/quote]

Well sometimes contacts dont work I guess.

It must have been a funny coincidence then that these 6 dealers (6x5 slots) were dealers listed on an internal and confidential list and you as a leader got them to tech deal.


+ Xiph I sar that you quoted me but then edited me out? Could answer my questions stated on page 4?

Edited by erikz
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[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1312449552' post='2771703']
Is RIA really like that in private, especially on their own forums? Do the rest of you literally find that funny?
[/quote]

No, not in private. They're normal. And I don't think they're trying to be funny, tbh.

[quote]We were so young. So stupid.[/quote]

Happens, man. Growing pains. Random tangent - do you remember a Beaumont? [Edit: I know him by another name, whoops]

[quote]
Could you name 3 alliances that you feel could become suitable additions to join Superfriends?

Asume here that obvious barriers were removed - i.e. they were to leave their existing blok or say cancel that one non-alliagned treaty etc.[/quote]

VE, NV and Umb would probably all fit personality-wise.

Edited by Xiphosis
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[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1312450871' post='2771708']
You presume we filled all of their slots. We didn't. We sent, at most, 10 offers. That's literally all I saw when I signed on that day, so unless you can prove that to me then I'll have to stick to what I know. And what I know is that we currently have six deals in progress.

Edit:

[spoiler][img]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8831/ngcsntechdeals.png[/img][/spoiler]
[/quote]

You FILLED all of their slots. Do you think we would even notice if it were just 10 offers? Do you really think I'm going to make screenshots of all our aid screens? I find it really funny that you are now going to deny it because those guys ended up cancelling the aid. Pretty amateurish.

I just found one of my guys copied 1 page of an aidscreen already listing 13 NG aid deals. I'll put them up soon as 'evidence'.

[img]http://i56.tinypic.com/21judf5.png[/img]

[img]http://i55.tinypic.com/2d8rm2a.png[/img]
Last shot is proof that they filled at least 1 guy's almost all slots. Why wouldn't CSN fill all the slots anyway of those 5-6 dealers?

Edited by kriekfreak
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