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Conformist Maryland
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I was cruising the old forums and I came across [url="http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/index.php?showtopic=79932&hl="]The Moldavi Rebellion[/url], good heaves that brought back memories. It got me thinking....What if?
What if Moo kept his head down and did not try to reclaim the throne?
What if Moldavi were to serve as Emperor of the NPO once more for the next year?
What would have changed?
What would have remained the same?

Obviously this is not important as we can not go back and change history, but it is interesting to think about regardless. Thought it could stir up some good conversation.

Discuss.

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The Q would be dissolved sooner, the noCB war could took long to happen and would have turned in a war against "The Orders" and I wouldn't have joined NpO since I did it in the middle of noCB war, I'm sure that some people would be happy if that had happened.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1310400861' post='2754414']
The NPO's war-by-proxy on Polaris -- the 'noCB War' -- would not have happened. No Vox 2.0. Probably no Karma, either. Beyond that it's very difficult to say.
[/quote]
Karma would have happened eventually, remember how many people in CN had never seen Pacifica never not on top, they had the largest target on their back out of anyone, they might have been able to make Karma into a closer war, a la GW2, but that war was happening.

edit: and I do agree with D34th, Q would have broken up, the only reason certain alliances remained in it as long as they did was Moldavi abdicating the throne.

Edited by Mogar
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[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1310413030' post='2754502']
The Q would be dissolved sooner, the noCB war could took long to happen and would have turned in a war against "The Orders" and I wouldn't have joined NpO since I did it in the middle of noCB war, I'm sure that some people would be happy if that had happened.
[/quote]
[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1310415420' post='2754520']
Karma would have happened eventually, remember how many people in CN had never seen Pacifica never not on top, they had the largest target on their back out of anyone, they might have been able to make Karma into a closer war, a la GW2, but that war was happening.

edit: and I do agree with D34th, Q would have broken up, the only reason certain alliances remained in it as long as they did was Moldavi abdicating the throne.
[/quote]
Continuum didn't exist when all that went down. The Unjust War was still a month or so away.

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[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1310419504' post='2754540']
Continuum didn't exist when all that went down. The Unjust War was still a month or so away.
[/quote]
WUT was what i meant, Moldavi was GOONS last ditch shot at keeping themselves alive, I recall convos with Daemon banned member and Alastor hoping Moo would just accept it.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1310400861' post='2754414']
The NPO's war-by-proxy on Polaris -- the 'noCB War' -- would not have happened. No Vox 2.0. Probably no Karma, either. Beyond that it's very difficult to say.
[/quote]

if there was no 'noCB War' my understanding is that there would be no SNAFU and probably no Hydra as the founders would have stuck around and taken over Tempest. not that anyone cares but us.

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[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1310426804' post='2754582']
NPO would be in a much better position than they are now, I'll tell you that damn much.
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

I am unsure if the UjW would have happened at all or if it would have went down the way it did so likely NoCB, Karma would never have happened since a fair amount of the NPO hate is based on grudges spanning those Wars. Yes there would have been a war or at least a few wars where people would line up to take a shot out of the Orders but I can't see them being much more then the normal wars of GW2 and 3.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1310400861' post='2754414']
The NPO's war-by-proxy on Polaris -- the 'noCB War' -- would not have happened. No Vox 2.0. Probably no Karma, either. Beyond that it's very difficult to say.
[/quote]

You're absolutely wrong on this. The NPO did everything it could to protect Polar and prevent what came to be known as the War of the Coalition. Moo's decision to protect Polaris from the rest of Q after canceling the OoO cost the NPO a tremendous amount of political capital with its allies and its position as de-facto leader of the game's most powerful bloc, and it played a part in Q's gradual decline after the war. Moo paid a lot in his attempts to keep Polaris safe. His efforts only ended when it became clear that he'd need to choose between Q and Polar and lose one of them.

If not for the NPO, the WotC would have happened some time earlier.

Edited by Crymson
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[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1310420180' post='2754543']
WUT was what i meant, Moldavi was GOONS last ditch shot at keeping themselves alive, I recall convos with Daemon banned member and Alastor hoping Moo would just accept it.
[/quote]

Wait, didn't GOONS support Moo in that? So why would they have hoped he's just accept it?

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My opinion on what would have happened:

1) Q wouldn't have existed.
2) Ivan would have alienated many alliances with his overbearing and hostile attitude.
3) NPO would have lots its position of power much earlier.

As the game's top dog and a fairly aggressive alliance in keeping itself in power, the NPO was bound to fall eventually. The sheer number of enemies it made over the years virtually guaranteed that. I think Moo did a fair job of extending the NPO's reign--before his unfortunate mistake in declaring war on OV--as he was a fairly good diplomat.

As for the claims that the NPO "lost" the moment it dropped Polaris, I think those are utter nonsense. The NPO had a choice between Q and Polaris. By the time the OoO was cancelled, the rest of Q detested Polaris and wanted the latter crushed, and, for some time, the NPO was the only thing standing in the way. Moo could decide to keep Polaris, an alliance with myriad enemies and a leader who was at times openly hostile toward the NPO, or Q, the game's main power. In the event, he tried to do both, but I think that giving up Polaris rather than giving up eleven other alliances was the better decision.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1310400861' post='2754414']
The NPO's war-by-proxy on Polaris -- the 'noCB War' -- would not have happened. No Vox 2.0. Probably no Karma, either. Beyond that it's very difficult to say.
[/quote]

This is what I was thinking.

Needles to say, things would be majorly different. And the top alliances would look a lot different than they do now.

Edited by Scorponok
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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310433934' post='2754616']
My opinion on what would have happened:

1) Q wouldn't have existed.
2) Ivan would have alienated many alliances with his overbearing and hostile attitude.
3) NPO would have lots its position of power much earlier.

As the game's top dog and a fairly aggressive alliance in keeping itself in power, the NPO was bound to fall eventually. The sheer number of enemies it made over the years virtually guaranteed that. I think Moo did a fair job of extending the NPO's reign--before his unfortunate mistake in declaring war on OV--as he was a fairly good diplomat.

As for the claims that the NPO "lost" the moment it dropped Polaris, I think those are utter nonsense. The NPO had a choice between Q and Polaris. By the time the OoO was cancelled, the rest of Q detested Polaris and wanted the latter crushed, and, for some time, the NPO was the only thing standing in the way. Moo could decide to keep Polaris, an alliance with myriad enemies and a leader who was at times openly hostile toward the NPO, or Q, the game's main power. In the event, he tried to do both, but I think that giving up Polaris rather than giving up eleven other alliances was the better decision.
[/quote]
Probably something along the lines of this.

It's hard to tell though. There was a lot of time between the Moo taking over and the cancellation of the OoO. Who knows how the politics and rivalries might have developed between then?

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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310433467' post='2754614']
You're absolutely wrong on this. The NPO did everything it could to protect Polar and prevent what came to be known as the War of the Coalition. Moo's decision to protect Polaris from the rest of Q after canceling the OoO cost the NPO a tremendous amount of political capital with its allies and its position as de-facto leader of the game's most powerful bloc, and it played a part in Q's gradual decline after the war. Moo paid a lot in his attempts to keep Polaris safe. His efforts only ended when it became clear that he'd need to choose between Q and Polar and lose one of them.

If not for the NPO, the WotC would have happened some time earlier.
[/quote]

I can confirm this as well. As I recall a war channel being created with most of Q minus Pacifica after OoO was dropped that was shut down when Moo showed up after being informed by someone from IRON? As I told Dilber at the time, it is an odd day when I am the least aggressive person in the room.

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[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1310409353' post='2754472']
Paragon Ascendancy would likely be a fairly powerful alliance.
[/quote]

I chuckled. However, it's not a stretch.


[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1310420180' post='2754543']
WUT was what i meant, Moldavi was GOONS last ditch shot at keeping themselves alive, I recall convos with Daemon banned member and Alastor hoping Moo would just accept it.
[/quote]

Nah. Ivan hated GOONS, if anything he would have attempted to kill GOONS sooner.

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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310433467' post='2754614']
You're absolutely wrong on this. The NPO did everything it could to protect Polar and prevent what came to be known as the War of the Coalition.
[/quote]

Crymson I'm not arguing for the sake of it here but this little matter kinda doesn't match with that-
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=26898

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[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1310441712' post='2754681']
Crymson I'm not arguing for the sake of it here but this little matter kinda doesn't match with that-
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=26898
[/quote]

You weren't inside of Q. You didn't see the NPO stand in the way of the rest of us attacking your alliance, at the cost of badly pissing all of us off. The idea that it was a war-by-proxy is completely incorrect.

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[quote name='Ellis' timestamp='1310433501' post='2754615']
Wait, didn't GOONS support Moo in that? So why would they have hoped he's just accept it?
[/quote]
[quote name='Conformist Maryland' timestamp='1310438821' post='2754652']
Nah. Ivan hated GOONS, if anything he would have attempted to kill GOONS sooner.
[/quote]
UjP was in a better position to fight a defensive war, the goal was to use Ivan's aggression against him, plus being attacked for just existing would have made alliances on the (whatever the not UjP side) possibly jump in for UjP.

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[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1310441979' post='2754686']
You weren't inside of Q. You didn't see the NPO stand in the way of the rest of us attacking your alliance, at the cost of badly pissing all of us off. The idea that it was a war-by-proxy is completely incorrect.
[/quote]

NPO spent months isolating Polaris, then decided that they wanted to prevent them being rolled after all. It's like dangling your brother over a pit of wolves and then eventually deciding to save him. Unfortunately for Polaris, the wolves got them. This is the only explanation which fits with the logs from De Profundis.

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