Declaration of Reformation

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309894099' post='2749577']
We love Kait too much, her baby needed to be resurrected...You're her husband, man. You should be supporting us.
[/quote]

Why don't you ask Kait what she thinks about this?

[The Big Bad]

It seems alliances that disband do to threat or war have a decent record of making come backs. Alliances that just fail and fall apart do not and in the end it is really all they are know for. If none of you ran or created the original then why bother taking a name now only associated with failing? Why not create something new? New alliances have a hard enough time making it, by taking a name that is going to bring your alliance nothing but derision seems to question your ability to make smart decisions right out the door. Good luck, its sure seems your going to need it.

[Bob]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309894099' post='2749577']
We love Kait too much, her baby needed to be resurrected...You're her husband, man. You should be supporting us.
[/quote]
If you love her so much, shouldn't she have come with you?

Also, congrats but I can't help but think this will fail fast, hopefully TTK can help you out, their alliance has had great longevity

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1309894406' post='2749582']
Why don't you ask Kait what she thinks about this?
[/quote]

That would be quite interesting to hear, as well as a few more of the people Alfred mentioned:

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1309857040' post='2749262']
Congratulations.

I hope that the following will be part of MA again.

Mila
Madam Fury
Zilla
Spades
Gretchen
Gibson

Awesome people all.
[/quote]

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309894099' post='2749577']
We love Kait too much, her baby needed to be resurrected...You're her husband, man. You should be supporting us.[/quote]

Somehow I think that you're on your own here...well you and CSN.

[KaitlinK]

[quote name='Vladisvok Destino' timestamp='1309895310' post='2749589']
That would be quite interesting to hear, as well as a few more of the people Alfred mentioned:
[/quote]

Monos Archein was better left dead.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1309879860' post='2749377']
Can't get into upper government in your alliance? No problem! Just wait for your alliance to die, reform it, then name yourself upper government.

With the exception of Ice, who served as Regent briefly near the end (I believe?), none of you were ever in upper government of MA, decision makers in MA, or founders previously. If you wanted to make an alliance (because we do need more), why didn't you just create a brand spanking new one?

Guess I'm a hater who is going to hate. I'll just be over here ... you know ... hatin'.
[/quote]

Keep hatin', brother.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309894099' post='2749577']
We love Kait too much, her baby needed to be resurrected...You're her husband, man. You should be supporting us.
[/quote]

You mean the same Kait that effectively killed it?

[Aurion]

Hoo and Zilla have the right of this one, I do believe.

I get trying to bring back something you loved, but if you care enough to try this you probably should have cared enough to stop it from dying to begin with.

So... Why didn't you?

Edited July 5, 2011 by Aurion

[D34th]

[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1309896751' post='2749602']
Monos Archein was better left dead.
[/quote]

Case Closed.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1309891491' post='2749549']
So much this.

Also, again aside from Ice, where where you when I spent countless hours for weeks on end trying to pull MA out from the grave that KaitlinK put her in.
[/quote]

Oh c'mon. Granted, I know leadership is time-consuming and difficult, and I was never in MA.. but give me a break. Whenever KaitlinK left MA had something around 230 members and was well into the SR. Granted, KaitlinK must've brought with her a large cadre of active members, but it was only something like 15 (I would have to look at the ASR to get more accurate numbers here). Inheriting an alliance of 200+ people is not at all a bad gig to be put into. Why you couldn't manage to recruit to replenish your numbers or grow your alliance through a copious amount of tech deals, I think, is reflective of how a government manages to lead an alliance. Don't have a full-time recruiter? Do it yourself until you can find one. Inactive? Try bringing your existing and new members onto IRC as much and effectively as possible. Be innovative and exciting. etc.

After a certain point, you gotta only blame yourself, as you let MA decay to a 1/3 of its size before you threw in the towel. KaitlinK didn't do that.

[Ozymandius]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1309899853' post='2749654']
Oh c'mon. Granted, I know leadership is time-consuming and difficult, and I was never in MA.. but give me a break. Whenever KaitlinK left MA had something around 230 members and was well into the SR. Granted, KaitlinK must've brought with her a large cadre of active members, but it was only something like 15 (I would have to look at the ASR to get more accurate numbers here). Inheriting an alliance of 200+ people is not at all a bad gig to be put into. Why you couldn't manage to recruit to replenish your numbers or grow your alliance through a copious amount of tech deals, I think, is reflective of how a government manages to lead an alliance. Don't have a full-time recruiter? Do it yourself until you can find one. Inactive? Try bringing your existing and new members onto IRC as much and effectively as possible. Be innovative and exciting. etc.

After a certain point, you gotta only blame yourself, as you let MA decay to a 1/3 of its size before you threw in the towel. KaitlinK didn't do that.
[/quote]
Though when suddenly most of the infrastructure of your gov up and leaves it tends to be a cluster $%&@. People who are experienced and know what they are doing don't just pop-up. You need people who can show them what to do and how to do it. Though when those people leave it makes it hard to do anything.

[Ozymandius]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1309899853' post='2749654']
Oh c'mon. Granted, I know leadership is time-consuming and difficult, and I was never in MA.. but give me a break. Whenever KaitlinK left MA had something around 230 members and was well into the SR. Granted, KaitlinK must've brought with her a large cadre of active members, but it was only something like 15 (I would have to look at the ASR to get more accurate numbers here). Inheriting an alliance of 200+ people is not at all a bad gig to be put into. Why you couldn't manage to recruit to replenish your numbers or grow your alliance through a copious amount of tech deals, I think, is reflective of how a government manages to lead an alliance. Don't have a full-time recruiter? Do it yourself until you can find one. Inactive? Try bringing your existing and new members onto IRC as much and effectively as possible. Be innovative and exciting. etc.

After a certain point, you gotta only blame yourself, as you let MA decay to a 1/3 of its size before you threw in the towel. KaitlinK didn't do that.
[/quote]
Though when suddenly most of the infrastructure of your gov up and leaves it tends to be a cluster $%&@. People who are experienced and know what they are doing don't just pop-up. You need people who can show them what to do and how to do it. Though when those people leave it makes it hard to do anything.

[Napoleon I]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1309894406' post='2749582']
Why don't you ask Kait what she thinks about this?
[/quote]


[quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1309895253' post='2749588']
If you love her so much, shouldn't she have come with you?
[/quote]


[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1309898869' post='2749635']
You mean the same Kait that effectively killed it?
[/quote]

I love how you all think I was being serious...

Edited July 5, 2011 by Napoleon I

[Northern Empire]

Nice,

good to see MA return

o/ Monos Archein

[Aurion]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1309899853' post='2749654']
Oh c'mon. Granted, I know leadership is time-consuming and difficult, and I was never in MA.. but give me a break. Whenever KaitlinK left MA had something around 230 members and was well into the SR. Granted, KaitlinK must've brought with her a large cadre of active members, but it was only something like 15 (I would have to look at the ASR to get more accurate numbers here). Inheriting an alliance of 200+ people is not at all a bad gig to be put into. Why you couldn't manage to recruit to replenish your numbers or grow your alliance through a copious amount of tech deals, I think, is reflective of how a government manages to lead an alliance. Don't have a full-time recruiter? Do it yourself until you can find one. Inactive? Try bringing your existing and new members onto IRC as much and effectively as possible. Be innovative and exciting. etc.

After a certain point, you gotta only blame yourself, as you let MA decay to a 1/3 of its size before you threw in the towel. KaitlinK didn't do that.
[/quote]

Gee, I don't know.

It seems to me like the majority of an alliance's core membership up and leaving all at once would have a pretty severe effect on a lot of alliances. Especially when the central figure who left was the alliance's talisman.

Frankly, I'm surprised MA lasted as long as it did.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309900777' post='2749665']
I love how you all think I was being serious...[/quote]

Actually, we don't think you've been serious since the OP was announced.

I'm waiting for MA to be made a SF member and the Atlantic Shadow Confederation to be brought back (all 4-5 people who be interested) and made SF member too.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1309899853' post='2749654']
Oh c'mon. Granted, I know leadership is time-consuming and difficult, and I was never in MA.. but give me a break. Whenever KaitlinK left MA had something around 230 members and was well into the SR. Granted, KaitlinK must've brought with her a large cadre of active members, but it was only something like 15 (I would have to look at the ASR to get more accurate numbers here). Inheriting an alliance of 200+ people is not at all a bad gig to be put into. Why you couldn't manage to recruit to replenish your numbers or grow your alliance through a copious amount of tech deals, I think, is reflective of how a government manages to lead an alliance. Don't have a full-time recruiter? Do it yourself until you can find one. Inactive? Try bringing your existing and new members onto IRC as much and effectively as possible. Be innovative and exciting. etc.

After a certain point, you gotta only blame yourself, as you let MA decay to a 1/3 of its size before you threw in the towel. KaitlinK didn't do that.
[/quote]

It's not like I know anything about this or something, but let me try to give you an idea.

When Kaitlink left MA in mid october, MA had 210 members. That was around october 20th (give or tale). By the end of october, MA was at a member count of 178. that is a drop of 32, most of which were active members and/or government. The person who took over for kait was dealing with RL issues and was inactive. By this point, only 2 members of the government were in government before kait left. From that point (beginning of september) to the point I took over (middle of december), MA saw the remaining semi-active members trickle out until a membership count of 138. At this point, only 2 of the members in government were even in the alliance when kait was around.

Kinda hard to blame myself when I didn't even take over till 1/2 of MA left.

Edited July 5, 2011 by CptGodzilla

[flak attack]

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1309847734' post='2749204']
The original MA was incredibly terrible, and you've somehow managed to make a reformation that is even worse. Well done.
[/quote]

[quote name='KaitlinK' timestamp='1309896751' post='2749602']
Monos Archein was better left dead.
[/quote]

That about sums it up, folks. This never should have even been tried

Edited July 5, 2011 by flak attack

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309900777' post='2749665']
I love how you all think I was being serious...
[/quote]

I love how hard you're backtracking right now.

[Napoleon I]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1309904368' post='2749710']
I love how hard you're backtracking right now.
[/quote]

Not as hard as you're trying to flame us - which reminds me, if we're so insignificant and useless, why are you even bothering?

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Ozymandius' timestamp='1309900731' post='2749664']
Though when suddenly most of the infrastructure of your gov up and leaves it tends to be a cluster $%&@. People who are experienced and know what they are doing don't just pop-up. You need people who can show them what to do and how to do it. Though when those people leave it makes it hard to do anything.
[/quote]
[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1309900902' post='2749668']
Gee, I don't know.

It seems to me like the majority of an alliance's core membership up and leaving all at once would have a pretty severe effect on a lot of alliances. Especially when the central figure who left was the alliance's talisman.

Frankly, I'm surprised MA lasted as long as it did.
[/quote]
[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1309902169' post='2749680']
It's not like I know anything about this or something, but let me try to give you an idea.

When Kaitlink left MA in mid october, MA had 210 members. That was around october 20th (give or tale). By the end of october, MA was at a member count of 178. that is a drop of 32, most of which were active members and/or government. The person who took over for kait was dealing with RL issues and was inactive. By this point, only 2 members of the government were in government before kait left. From that point (beginning of september) to the point I took over (middle of december), MA saw the remaining semi-active members trickle out until a membership count of 138. At this point, only 2 of the members in government were even in the alliance when kait was around.

Kinda hard to blame myself when I didn't even take over till 1/2 of MA left.
[/quote]

I never said it was an easy situation, but MA was a big alliance and you had plenty of time (over a year!) to turn it around, re-build and refill the government infrastructure lost, RECRUIT (which imo, is the key thing you failed to do. That's the best way you can get active people back in your alliance and doing duties, and so many alliances neglect that), set up tech deals (so that your more inactive members have a vested interest in their nation and alliance, log on forums more frequently, and maybe pop on IRC) and the list can go on. All it takes is initiative to begin to do these things, and momentum to keep these things going. Not enough people you can delegate tasks to? Then you have to do it yourself, until you find people that are willing to do it. It takes a lot of work, but you had a great base of big nations to build on top of. You also didn't face a tough war (BiPolar, which you took reps in), which is typically the reason an alliance calls it quits.

Face it, when one or more individuals can build an alliance from scratch with little to no existing alliance history or infrastructure can succeed, then surely Monos Archein should have succeeded. When you can build up an alliance starting with 4 people, into an alliance of 49 people in a matter of 40 days as the [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Nuclear%20Proliferation%20League"]Nuclear Proliferation League[/url] has done, surely an alliance with 170, 130, or even 80 nations should have been able to turn itself around within a year. To me, as !@#$%* as your original circumstances were coming into power, it comes down to a lack of leadership. And yes, anything that falls apart by internal means, imo, comes from a lack of leadership.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Napoleon I' timestamp='1309907042' post='2749745']
Not as hard as you're trying to flame us - which reminds me, if we're so insignificant and useless, why are you even bothering?
[/quote]

Maybe because I'm not a fan of something insignificant and useless stealing the name of an honorable and much-respected corpse?

EDIT: That's a question... so no, a period does not work.

Edited July 5, 2011 by Bob Ilyani

[USMC123]

Oh hey. You actually did it.

[KaitlinK]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1309902169' post='2749680']
It's not like I know anything about this or something, but let me try to give you an idea.

[/quote]


When I departed MA (well over a year before she merged into CSN) nobody left with me and certainly NOT members of government as you keep stating. Members started trickling out over inactivity anywhere from weeks to months after my departure. Sure, some joined RoK after Mamaduck and you (yes, you Sunshine) were left to run MA as you saw fit. I thought it was best to merge her or outright disband her but you all wished to continue and I was done. You dont get to blame me for killing something you couldnt sucessfully run. Lets not forget Mila had to take over for you cause you were nowhere to be found. You were so inactive at the time that you didn't even know you had been replaced! Mila simply got sick of waiting for you after the two of you spoke and took over so lets not paint this picture of you as a perfect leader that did everything they could. You weren't as inactive as mamaduck, but you were not a bastion of activity, my friend.

Let's face it, MA was a fun little alliance and a cult of personality. We were not a military force or a political savvy group. We enjoyed our cookie girls, getting drunk on IRC and doing our best to NOT take ourselves too seriously... hell we had a charter in LOL Cat speak if that tells you anything. MA had her day in the sun and it was a blast but that time ended and it would have been far better to bury her instead of keeping her on life support or whatever this is.