Varianz accused of inter-alliance spying

[Lord Fingolfin]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1309647194' post='2747162']
Before the war, Konkrage had ~2.5b. I assume he's hovering at around 1-1.5b now. Although with his infra level that is still rather low, he has just rebought infra so it's expected. There is one other Legion guy with a decent warchest iirc, although I can't remember his name. The rest were all very poor.
[/quote]

Probably Mojo of Kolsara, he was Legion's #1 nation and left peace mode and started fighting Umb/you guys weeks before the rest of the alliance finally manned up.

In any case, this is all rather embarrassing. Perhaps Legion will learn something from it. Perhaps not. Also, someone should spy Sinatra, Legion's current #1 nation, it appears he is lacking in spies

[shirunei]

Do something about it

[Sequoia Throne]

Give 'em a few days, they'll figure it out eventually

[Jazzy95]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1309662716' post='2747322']
Dear citizens of the Cyberverse,

Over the last couple of days, allegations have been made regarding the actions of the New Sith Order. Sith are creatures ruled by our passions. Our alliance is often impulsive, reckless, even outright self-destructive. Many of you have seen such tendencies in us before. Every so often, an incident like this arises. This time, however, I can assure you all that I personally, and no other member of the NSO, has been involved. Here in this thread, all that is shown is that members of The Legion are ashamed of their past actions, and seek to project this shame onto others. I am deeply disappointed.

Never before have I seen such baseless claims made with such false confidence. God forbid that I have a Communist government. And simply because I was in range of the originally spied nations in no way implicates me. Briefly looking at in game statistics, I can see hundreds of other nations in range of the victim nation. Other than that, there are many alliances outside of the NSO who hate The Legion. Undeniably, we have been vocal recently about our hatred, but simply speaking out is not a crime in the Cyberverse. There are no laws against freedom of information. It is no longer acceptable to make such base accusations, and to threaten people for simply speaking their mind. Those dark times are gone, and should remain buried. Let us not forget that Legion themselves have a dark history behind them. Ever followers, they enabled some of the worst crimes of the Hegemonic era. Going forward, they avoided fighting whenever possible, the brave peace mode warriors. In the last war, they were so cowardly that they let alliances a quarter their size bear the brunt of more fighting than they. Of course, they will claim otherwise, and yes, they did eventually fight, not that coming out one by one did a lot of good. Now, I hope that you can see the truth of my words and of my defense.
[/quote]


The amount of effort put into this is hilarious... and they'll NEVER know

[nutkase]

I actually find it hilarious to all the NSO people stomping there feet screaming to be attacked.

Reminds me of the people who back away from a fight screaming "COME AT ME BRO".

If you want a war, go start one.

Edited July 3, 2011 by nutkase

[DanDesade]

what is there to figure out? that you are provocative? that you bear a grudge? that you care not for The Legion.

those concerns were realised long ago.

we also recognized that, as varianz has said himself, the NSO alliance is impulsive, reckless, and even outright self-destructive.

they serve no great purpose, but rather do what sith do. cause unrest and chaos, and the occasional lulz

until recently i had not even the time nor the inclination to pay any attention to the NSO.

but the last few days have provided me with all i find neccasary to recognise the character of those that call themselves the sith.

loud bark, little bite.

insiginificant since the day they were born, and will remain as such forevermore

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1309662716' post='2747322']
Dear citizens of the Cyberverse,

Over the last couple of days, allegations have been made regarding the actions of the New Sith Order. Sith are creatures ruled by our passions. Our alliance is often impulsive, reckless, even outright self-destructive. Many of you have seen such tendencies in us before. Every so often, an incident like this arises. This time, however, I can assure you all that I personally, and no other member of the NSO, has been involved. Here in this thread, all that is shown is that members of The Legion are ashamed of their past actions, and seek to project this shame onto others. I am deeply disappointed.

Never before have I seen such baseless claims made with such false confidence. God forbid that I have a Communist government. And simply because I was in range of the originally spied nations in no way implicates me. Briefly looking at in game statistics, I can see hundreds of other nations in range of the victim nation. Other than that, there are many alliances outside of the NSO who hate The Legion. Undeniably, we have been vocal recently about our hatred, but simply speaking out is not a crime in the Cyberverse. There are no laws against freedom of information. It is no longer acceptable to make such base accusations, and to threaten people for simply speaking their mind. Those dark times are gone, and should remain buried. Let us not forget that Legion themselves have a dark history behind them. Ever followers, they enabled some of the worst crimes of the Hegemonic era. Going forward, they avoided fighting whenever possible, the brave peace mode warriors. In the last war, they were so cowardly that they let alliances a quarter their size bear the brunt of more fighting than they. Of course, they will claim otherwise, and yes, they did eventually fight, not that coming out one by one did a lot of good. Now, I hope that you can see the truth of my words and of my defense.
[/quote]
I fully agree with this sentiment.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1309664338' post='2747352']
I actually find it hilarious to all the NSO people stomping there feet screaming to be attacked.

Reminds me of the people who back away from a fight screaming "COME AT ME BRO".

If you want a war, go start one.
[/quote]
cool stoy bro

But I think you'll find that we really don't care one way or the other, we just like annoying Legion.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309664465' post='2747355']
what is there to figure out? that you are provocative? that you bear a grudge? that you care not for The Legion.

those concerns were realised long ago.

we also recognized that, as varianz has said himself, the NSO alliance is impulsive, reckless, and even outright self-destructive.

they serve no great purpose, but rather do what sith do. cause unrest and chaos, and the occasional lulz

until recently i had not even the time nor the inclination to pay any attention to the NSO.

but the last few days have provided me with all i find neccasary to recognise the character of those that call themselves the sith.

loud bark, little bite.

insiginificant since the day they were born, and will remain as such forevermore
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Purpose? I have to admit, it is funny to see a member of Legion barking about how an alliance ought to have a purpose. I ain't one to toot NSO's horn, but I will ask you this. What purpose does Legion serve? Aside from comic relief anyway.[/color]

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309664465' post='2747355']
loud bark, little bite.
[/quote]

LOL Something about a pot...a kettle...and a color comes to mind.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1309664705' post='2747359']
cool stoy bro

But I think you'll find that we really don't care one way or the other, we just like annoying Legion.
[/quote]

It reflects well on the relationship between Pacifica and Legion that a ruler such as yourself, who spent years in Pacifica, has such an attitude towards Legion. Could we expect the same from Letum or Legion's other supposed friends in NPO if they joined NSO?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Kalasin

[DanDesade]

we serve our own purpose and none others.

perhaps if we were to frequent the BBs as often as you and others our intentions/prupose would be better realised.

but for the most part we do what most alliances do.

we congragate on our forums, talk to what allies we have, and occasionally go to war, for better or worse.

I suppose you could so far as to say that no alliance has any great purpose but to get one over on another.

If that is to be considered a maxim then yes, we would also be considered to want to realise that.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309664465' post='2747355']
loud bark, little bite.

insiginificant since the day they were born, and will remain as such forevermore
[/quote]
Amusing coming from a member of an alliance that has been insignificant since it was humiliated by two alliances that were roughly half your size...

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1309664950' post='2747367']
It reflects well on the relationship between Pacifica and Legion that a ruler such as yourself, who spent years in Pacifica, has such an attitude towards Legion. Could we expect the same from Letum or Legion's other supposed friends in NPO if they joined NSO?
[/quote]
Who knows? Although according to VE I am the embodiment of the old Pacifican attitude, I'm afraid that I have no idea if Pacificans share my view. In any case, I was largely indifferent to them until the last war. However, I'm sure you remember that the NPO-Legion relationship wasn't always so rosy.

[DanDesade]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309665206' post='2747371']
Amusing coming from a member of an alliance that has been insignificant since it was humiliated by two alliances that were roughly half your size...
[/quote]

you do appreciate that the alliance in question has existed for more than 5 years yes?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309665130' post='2747370']
occasionally go to war, for better or worse.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Going to war.... So is that what they're calling sitting on your hands for a good couple months these days? Because to me it looked more like you figured you could keep most yourselves in peace, send a few of your smaller nations out to put up a token fight, and get an easy out with light terms. When it is all said and done you can say you honored your agreement and defended your allies, however debatable that might be. A shame your plan didn't work quite as well as you had hoped.[/color]

[MaGneT]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309665319' post='2747373']
you do appreciate that the alliance in question has existed for more than 5 years yes?
[/quote]
What are you even trying to argue? That you can beat me over the head with your walker?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1309662716' post='2747322'] God forbid that I have a Communist government.
[/quote]

The Legion is literally Joseph McCarthy.

[DanDesade]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1309665653' post='2747376']
[color="#0000FF"]Going to war.... So is that what they're calling sitting on your hands for a good couple months these days? Because to me it looked more like you figured you could keep most yourselves in peace, send a few of your smaller nations out to put up a token fight, and get an easy out with light terms. When it is all said and done you can say you honored your agreement and defended your allies, however debatable that might be. A shame your plan didn't work quite as well as you had hoped.[/color]
[/quote]

I had no real intention to go down this path but as you have raised the point i find it worthy of a response in kind.


the NSO war, to the best of my understanding, meant that NSO argued with everyone in the coalition then surrendered.

is that perhaps your defintion of how war is to be fought?

against your allies and surrender to your enemies.

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309666096' post='2747382']
What are you even trying to argue? That you can beat me over the head with your walker?
[/quote]

That we've been in existance for far shorter and yet defended our allies to the last drop over twice as many times as they?

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309666144' post='2747385']
I had no real intention to go down this path but as you have raised the point i find it worthy of a response in kind.


the NSO war, to the best of my understanding, meant that NSO argued with everyone in the coalition then surrendered.

is that perhaps your defintion of how war is to be fought?

against your allies and surrender to your enemies.
[/quote]
Why don't you ask GOONS about our war effort, since they actually know?

[DanDesade]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309666096' post='2747382']
What are you even trying to argue? That you can beat me over the head with your walker?
[/quote]

you're not very bright are you?

you begin by saying we were beaten by two alliances half our size, which together would mean they are the same size as our alliance. then you fail to realize that with history there are many twists and turns, and any alliance would be hardpressed to have an unblemished record, and that with such a long history, the loss of one or two wars are not so important as they seem in the immediate term.

[Krunk the Great]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309666351' post='2747393']
you're not very bright are you?

you begin by saying we were beaten by two alliances half our size, which together would mean they are the same size as our alliance. then you fail to realize that with history there are many twists and turns, and any alliance would be hardpressed to have an unblemished record, and that with such a long history, the loss of one or two wars are not so important as they seem in the immediate term.
[/quote]

According to the Wiki you lost every single war you fought.

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Legion#War_History

[kevin32891]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309666144' post='2747385']
I had no real intention to go down this path but as you have raised the point i find it worthy of a response in kind.


the NSO war, to the best of my understanding, meant that NSO argued with everyone in the coalition then surrendered.

is that perhaps your defintion of how war is to be fought?

against your allies and surrender to your enemies.
[/quote]

I don't remember fighting my allies, I remember fighting our enemies.

Well I learned my lesson from that war. Its not to be in the same coalition with Legion.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='DanDesade' timestamp='1309666144' post='2747385']
I had no real intention to go down this path but as you have raised the point i find it worthy of a response in kind.


the NSO war, to the best of my understanding, meant that NSO argued with everyone in the coalition then surrendered.

is that perhaps your defintion of how war is to be fought?

against your allies and surrender to your enemies.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, we argued. We argued that the strategy being used was absolutely idiotic. Hold up all the large nations in peace mode. Anyone who knew the slightest about MK can see that their objective during that war was to take out NPO's upper rank. That is what concerned them. There had been potential for clashes with SF or other blocs prior to that war, but they never happened because NPO's possible involvement was a threat to their plans. So they knew they had to take out NPO's top tiers, and the top tiers of their allies. If you were not blind you'd have seen it then and there, as I did, and as NSO did.

As it turns out, we were absolutely correct. In order to get to the negotiating table NPO had to bring out their top tier, and with them their allies'.

Not to mention the general incompetence that dragged out the war. Without a top tier to reinforce and replenish the funds of the mid and lower tiers, resources were stretched. GOONS and others were capable of fighting longer for that reason.

It wasn't just the big nations in peace mode. Not for Legion anyway. You had a great many mid-tier and small nations sitting in peace. Had it not been for that NSO and others could have had a round or two to reload, but no. We had to pull more than our burden to make up for Legion's slack.

Furthermore, when you eventually did come out (if we can call it that much) you did nothing. You sent your nations out but they didn't declare any wars. You just waited to be attacked. And who attacked you? MK and Umbrella nations in need of a break? No, the fresh ones. The ones still capable of putting up a fight.

There were lists of MK nations, who had been fighting for weeks without pause, who had wars about to expire. Legion could have touched them, and damaged them further had you the sense to do so. MK wasn't scrambling into peace mode for no reason.

So yes, NSO argued. We argued because the planners of the coalition, mainly those from Legion, were completely and utterly inept. And we sure as Hell weren't going to sit there and cheer "Great idea!"[/color]