MaGneT Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Seems like you put yourself in a real sticky situation. I'm not very familiar with it, so I'll just give a respectful nod to the fact that you didn't shy away from your choice and backed it up as fully as possible in the OP. Props, despite the fact that I think forcing an election is a bit on the intrusive side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dajobo Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 The past can't ever be undone but what R & R has done here is an honest attempt at making things as right as they can possibly be. o/ R&R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
President S O Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Best of luck fixing yourselves, UINE. Hi Simms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I am very happy to see this. As for the people still !@#$%*ing, can't please everyone I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 A most welcome development Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I can't congratulate R&R for releasing UINE from something that should never ever have been imposed. Also all the excuses that you give in OP are unacceptable, but I'm glad that your alliance at least removed these shameful surrender terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haven for Peace Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 o/ R&R I am pleased to see this announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Terms never should have been there in the first place. But at least you released them from it, that's something...I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironchef Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [img]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u11/ironchef_GGA/golfcl.png[/img] Thats all I have to say about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CzarBomba Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 A commendable move. Congrats to both parties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestrike Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I just drank a beer, and it tasted skunky, but did I finish it? Yes. Because you don't waste beer. R&R fought an alliance, because it was skunky, but did they finish it? Yes. Because they are R&R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 That's deep, man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1309402236' post='2744670'] 1. We had no idea how long it would take UINE to start new elections, so we had to made them with an unspecified timeframe, unspecified = permanent on bob (OMG, they can keep those terms permanently), so why not just call them that from the start.[/quote] Unspecified is not permanent. It [i]may[/i] prove permanent but why not just call it indefinite? All the other stuff, however, I see nothing wrong with. It's not necessarily what I would do, but it is a legitimate option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2cekcar.png[/IMG] Somehow or another, I manage to not have gained any positive opinion for the alliance who ousted another alliance's leader and banned him indefinitely from his own government over an amount of reps that can be paid in one round of slots. It's nice to know that Keve is free to be back in gov now, for a total of a day before he departs this realm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmbroseIV Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1309426927' post='2744932'] [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2cekcar.png[/IMG] Somehow or another, I manage to not have gained any positive opinion for the alliance who ousted another alliance's leader and banned him indefinitely from his own government over an amount of reps that can be paid in one round of slots. It's nice to know that Keve is free to be back in gov now, for a total of a day before he departs this realm. [/quote] Your sympathies for Keve are noted, but you've somehow managed 2+2=19. Since you feel the need to rehash the issue of reps-which only comprised a [i]very[/i] small part of this incident-it is quite amazing that they couldn't be sent out in 6 months, isn't it? And before you go implying R&R has forced someone's departure, Keve was inactive a day before the war and last I heard (9 days after it ended) no-one in UINE had been in contact him - unless he's a psychic I'd suggest he has other, more important obligations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partisan Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hmm, this clears things up a bit. I must say I was a bit surprised at the terms when they were first announced. They seemed very unreasonable and not in line with my perception of RnR (being a generally reasonable and friendly bunch). With the motivations it all sounds alot less 'evil' and more logical. Good show RnR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFreaky Posted June 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1309406876' post='2744772'] Because it would have been easier and more correct to tell the community the truth of your intentions? [/quote] Perhaps, would have defeated the point though. Way to easy to ignore something if you know in advance how easy it is to get out of it. [Quote] So you met with less resistance then did the wrong thing because of it? How is that in any way proper? That others wrongly violated various alliances' sovereignty in no way excuses your doing it. [/Quote] Ah but you misunderstand, i'm not looking for an excuse and honestly care very little if people agree or not, if everyone around here would agree with each other it would get very boring. I just felt some people (mostly allied members who had questions) might want a little explanation. Putting it in here was easier then going around all those forums posting it in their embassies. [Quote] Unfortunately your one good decision will drown out your admitted dishonesty to our community and your abuse of the absolute power you held over a defeated alliance. [/quote] I was not aware i had any obligations towards this community, i have obligations towards my alliance, its allies, its friends and even its enemies. Not towards John Doe from alliance X. [quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1309407282' post='2744776'] Seems like you put yourself in a real sticky situation. I'm not very familiar with it, so I'll just give a respectful nod to the fact that you didn't shy away from your choice and backed it up as fully as possible in the OP. Props, despite the fact that I think forcing an election is a bit on the intrusive side. [/quote] Aye it was, point was though that whatever we would have done with the terms after so many broken promises, for 6 months, whatever the terms would be they would have to be negotiated and executed with someone else in charge. I have no doubt that otherwise this announcement would not have been a release from terms but a statement about how again a peace accord was broken. As leader of an alliance you can't make promise after promise and break promise after promise and then be suprised people don't want to deal with you anymore and want someone else to deal with. According to Keve's own words only the emperor of UINE had the power to make any deals and we where not going to deal with him any longer so that really left no options. Do i like stepping on an alliance in trouble? Not particularly. Do i like removing people from gov in another alliance? Not at all. Would i do it again given the same situation? In a heartbeat. [quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1309408363' post='2744791'] The past can't ever be undone but what R & R has done here is an honest attempt at making things as right as they can possibly be. o/ R&R [/quote] Not entirely, all we did was follow through with a plan set out the day we made the terms, beginning and end all belong together. It was certainly not the popular thing to do, if it was the right thing to do... we can probably never tell. If a situation like this never happens again i could go boasting "See we did the right thing", truth is even without the war and our terms a situation like this might never have happened again so we can never tell for sure. But if something goes wrong ever again and it gives one person over there the thought of "i remember what happened last time, let's make sure things are handled properly this time (or lets make sure our gov member responsible follows through on this)", if that happens, it was worth it. If that doesn't happen.. oh well, then we'll see how another alliance deals with it i suppose. [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1309413386' post='2744868'] Terms never should have been there in the first place. But at least you released them from it, that's something...I guess. [/quote] Actually i agree, these terms should never have happened, the war itself should never have happened, the 6 months before should never have happened, the 2nd raid should never have happened, the threats should never have happened and that first raid way way back that started it all should never have happened. Yet it all did, so here we are. [quote name='Farnsworth' timestamp='1309421054' post='2744920'] Unspecified is not permanent. It [i]may[/i] prove permanent but why not just call it indefinite? All the other stuff, however, I see nothing wrong with. It's not necessarily what I would do, but it is a legitimate option. [/quote] yeah we could have done that, would have made little difference in the long run. The people that hated "permanent" would have hated "indefinite" just as much, for UINE it would have been the same because their release would have been on the same day. Where the terms a brilliant piece of writing? Not really, it's my believe it was in the best interest of everyone involved to settle it asap, delaying it a day to reread terms and fix some of the less brilliant parts of it would just have caused more damage to UINE and put us one step closer to making it a global war. [quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1309426927' post='2744932'] [IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/2cekcar.png[/IMG] Somehow or another, I manage to not have gained any positive opinion for the alliance who ousted another alliance's leader and banned him indefinitely from his own government over an amount of reps that can be paid in one round of slots. It's nice to know that Keve is free to be back in gov now, for a total of a day before he departs this realm. [/quote] I read this a lot, i don't understand how this is used as a defense. "It could have been paid in one round of slots", indeed it could have, better yet at the start it could have been paid with 1 slot (3M) yet 6 months later it still wasn't done. Personally I rather have an alliance not make a deadline when it involves hundreds of millions then when it involves only a few million, when it involves such a big amount there are many reasons for not making a deadline: To many people went inactive, we messed up our coordination, the time period was too short for such an amount and left us no room for error etc. When it's about such a low amount though, there's not one of these excuses that can be used and only leaves unwillingness. Personally i can live with an alliance breaking terms because of factors they have little control over, i remember during the Pacifican terms after Karma there where many small breaches of terms (people with nukes who shouldn't have them etc.) We where always strongly against going to hard on them over those things because at that time NPO had like 700 members and it is impossible to control 700 members in such a way that no one screws up, everyone who looked unbiased at it though saw that NPO did everything in their power to honor their end of the deal even though on a few occasions they couldn't manage. Whenever there was a delay or mistake they worked hard to work with the people enforcing terms. However, when you are talking about a little amount, so little that the person agreeing to the deal can easily fullfill the obligations on their own within 20 days and then it still hasn't been done 6 months later, then there are no excuses, then in my opinion it is just unwillingness of that person and imo it's way worse then when it would have been about a large sum of reps. As for Keve going inactive, i did not know, nor really care, i do not wish to see another nation depart this planet, though i can't honestly state i will miss him. Your point however is lost on me seeing i highly doubt the terms have anything to do with it since UINE membership (INCLUDING KEVE) was notified of our intend to drop all our terms includng the "permanent" ones the day they started their elections. I send out the message myself and i happen to have noticed Keve opened his message. So i think his inactivity has more to do with him being away (on a mission i think it was) then about anything in these terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 The terms never should have been issued in the first place, and I'm not sure why you would still try to defend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 You released them from terms that should never have been imposed. Well, it's a start I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayzie Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 So Keve is now allowed back into UINE gov? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercoolyellow Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1309404296' post='2744727'] stay away from my ass [/quote] Now that would make a fantastic war cry. [img]http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/supercoolyellow/Gadsden_flag.png[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TECUMSEH Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 The bottom line is that it's good new for UINE and that makes me happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinuteVariance Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 My [i]heartfelt[/i] thanks go out to RnR for their [i]gracious[/i] and [i]welcomed[/i] interference. I'd also like to compliment the extreme level of pompousness achieved in this thread and also many other related threads on the topic - it truly is a pleasure to read such unassuming, selfless poetry. We really are all [i]very[/i] grateful for your [i]wonderful[/i] gifts of wisdom and love etc etc. I personally am especially partial to the self agrandising PM's you sent out to our nations after the war had finished. Thank you all so, [i]so[/i] much for your help! Basically, get your hand off it. You forced us to do something we didn't want to do in a way we wouldn't choose to using your own military might hidden behind arrogant commentry and your own trumped up reasons to act out your beef with Keve. There were many ways to resolve this and you selected the one that allowed you to rub it the longest, until it was all red and sore. Now you want to talk about it all over again to try and relive the moment and cop a few more hails from the ones who aren't made nauseous by your actions. That is actually quite amusing in itself. What UINE does and what UINE achieves is the work of the members of UINE and bears no relation to the wishes or actions of RnR - you'll want to take some credit now and in the future I'm sure, but you certainly don't deserve any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 [quote name='MinuteVariance' timestamp='1309442594' post='2745008'] What UINE does and what UINE achieves is the work of the members of UINE and bears no relation to the wishes or actions of RnR - you'll want to take some credit now and in the future I'm sure, but you certainly don't deserve any. [/quote] Ouch. Critical hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster83 Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 (edited) I wish the best of luck to UINE and its new government. Glad to see this "fiasco" has come to an end. Edited June 30, 2011 by Robster83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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