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R&R Announcement regarding UINE terms


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[i][b]Ladies and Gentlemen of Planet Bob,[/b][/i]

A little while ago UINE surrendered to the R&R. In our dealings with UINE and Keve which have been discussed over and over we put up with a lot of frustrations, we tried several approaches over time yet nothing seemed to make the point clear that we had enough. Then we went to war and we had to ask ourselves the question, what do we possibly want to accomplish. As stated before it was long past “just the reparations”, we had been pushed and pushed again and some form of payment was in order. We could have kept UINE at war for a week or 2 as some suggested, but because of the obvious strength differences that would have had devastating effects on UINE (overkill over something like this). We could have demanded reparations, but would it really have done anyone any good except for enriching ourselves over the backs of an alliance in trouble? Or we could ZI Keve again, but what would that fix? It didn’t help the last time we tried.

So it was decided that we would bring to their attention that what we felt was the cause of these frustrations. There was no way in hell we would go through another round of negotiations with Keve or anyone, while he was in a position to overrule any deal made like he did in the past. So it was pretty much either him gone for the duration of negotiations [B]and[/B] terms or we would continue the war. Sure they got rid of Keve shortly after the attack, but words start losing meaning if they haven been broken enough times, “Keve may or may not return to power in a short while”, basically we peace out and then have the chance to go through the entire process again when Keve returned to power. Maybe not their intention, but with everything that happened this was a possible scenario, one that was not acceptable for us.

A supreme ruler, unchecked and someone everyone pointed to when things went bad. By forcing an election, we forced UINE membership to speak up and take the responsibility every member of any alliance has,to make sure that their leader serves the best interest of their alliance. We heard a lot of “we are trying to change but can’t because of…”, so we set our terms, if they where making excuses we made them jump through hoops, if they really wanted change but change was so hard we gave them an opening which to use for future reforms, both would work for us.

UINE recently completed their elections, with it completing the last of our (expirable) terms, we don’t want anything more. We hope this served as a wake up call for them a warning that it’s a bad idea to blindly follow one person without checking in on what’s happening and that a bad or unenforced raiding policies get you into trouble. . We have no (nor ever had) desire for eternal dealings with UINE over this situation, we have what we wanted, they made their payments for both the raids and the frustrations, so as of this moment we release UINE from [B]ALL[/B] terms.

[B]So what was up with all those permanent terms?[/B]

There’s not really such a thing as “permanent” terms, how many of the permanent terms demanded in the past are still in effect? A permanent term is only a term until the demanding party stops enforcing it. Now i bet you’re wondering why call them permanent when not intending to keep the terms going permanently?

4 Reasons for that:
1. We had no idea how long it would take UINE to start new elections, so we had to made them with an unspecified timeframe, unspecified = permanent on bob (OMG, they can keep those terms permanently), so why not just call them that from the start.
2. We wanted to give UINE a good scare, make them feel lines where really crossed here.
3. We expected to have to make some concessions during negotiations so we had to aim higher then what we needed to force an election and make UINE members speak up. But we where met with less resistance then expected during negotiations.
4. During our previous negotiations we had to deal with a lot of excuses and broken promises, making the terms so we could enforce them as long as we wanted we reduced the possibility of cutting corners for them.

[B]What about that sovereignty?[/B]

A lot of people asked me about this so i might as well address it. I can be very plain about that, sovereignty is out of the window the minute someone surrenders. If you demand reps YOU decide how they should use their slots and thus trespass on their sovereignty, when you force someone to not reenter or aid any ally still at war you trespass on their sovereignty, when you decide someone has to get X amount of toptier nations out of peace mode you trespass on their sovereignty. In short, everything but complete white peace is trespassing on someones sovereignty. And don’t misunderstand, though our peace talks with UINE where mostly friendly, we where NOT 2 friends looking for a mutual beneficial solution. It was us being fed up and wanting the issue resolved. So we decided to have our terms target the issues that in our opinion started all this, how it goes from here is up to UINE, they decide where to go from here.

We wish UINE success towards the future and hope any future dealings will be under better circumstances.

Signed,
EgoFreaky – R&R President


Tl;dr
UINE is hereby released from all terms.

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Imperialists telling us about sovereignty. Good show R&R, stay classy.

Its not that it's wrong, but I suppose i thought a bit better from such an alliance. Also, lovely attempt at redefining what eternal terms mean, I had a good chuckle.

Edited by memoryproblems
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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1309404148' post='2744723']
It's a shame I don't kiss a person's ass for revoking something they never should have done to begin with, or I'd hop on the "good show" bandwagon.

Get over yourselves.
[/quote]


It's a shame.. no wait it really isn't.. stay away from my ass :|

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1309404347' post='2744729']
Keep your ass out of everyone's business and no one will have to see it again.
[/quote]

Cause this is obviously your business i'm sticking my.. nose in, yeah let's stick to nose from now on cause i get creeped out with you thinking about my ass so much.

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[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1309404749' post='2744740']
Cause this is obviously your business i'm sticking my
[/quote]
When an alliance or a man believes it has the right to change the way another alliance governs itself, it is everyone's business.

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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1309404887' post='2744744']
When an alliance or a man believes it has the right to change the way another alliance governs itself, it is everyone's business.
[/quote]

But then aren't you interfering in our right to defend our allies and protect their sovereignty? After all, this war was started with defending AiD when UINE had attacked them and not payed reps while promising to do so.

Edited by Alex987
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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1309404887' post='2744744']
When an alliance or a man believes it has the right to change the way another alliance governs itself, it is everyone's business.
[/quote]

Fair enough, can't please everyone, nor where the terms ever intended to be pleasing. In the end this wont have any lasting effects unless UINE chooses for it to have lasting effects. I think things could have been much worse for them.

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[quote]4 Reasons for that:
1. We had no idea how long it would take UINE to start new elections, so we had to made them with an unspecified timeframe, unspecified = permanent on bob (OMG, they can keep those terms permanently), so why not just call them that from the start.[/quote]

Because it would have been easier and more correct to tell the community the truth of your intentions?

[quote]
3. We expected to have to make some concessions during negotiations so we had to aim higher then what we needed to force an election and make UINE members speak up. But we where met with less resistance then expected during negotiations.[/quote]

So you met with less resistance then did the wrong thing because of it? How is that in any way proper?

[quote][b]What about that sovereignty?[/b]

A lot of people asked me about this so i might as well address it. I can be very plain about that, sovereignty is out of the window the minute someone surrenders. If you demand reps YOU decide how they should use their slots and thus trespass on their sovereignty, when you force someone to not reenter or aid any ally still at war you trespass on their sovereignty, when you decide someone has to get X amount of toptier nations out of peace mode you trespass on their sovereignty. In short, everything but complete white peace is trespassing on someones sovereignty. And don’t misunderstand, though our peace talks with UINE where mostly friendly, we where NOT 2 friends looking for a mutual beneficial solution. It was us being fed up and wanting the issue resolved. So we decided to have our terms target the issues that in our opinion started all this, how it goes from here is up to UINE, they decide where to go from here.[/quote]

That others wrongly violated various alliances' sovereignty in no way excuses your doing it.

[quote]Tl;dr
UINE is hereby released from all terms. [/quote]

Unfortunately your one good decision will drown out your admitted dishonesty to our community and your abuse of the absolute power you held over a defeated alliance.

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