Superimposed IC

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

I have a hard time believing that if someone were to reroll as a new "character" that they'd suddenly be smarter, or be some way better than their previous "character" unless they put on an act of some sort (i.e. roleplaying a different type of person).

[Dochartaigh]

My opinion is that most OOC terms are unacceptable. If it is simply a small joke term (like posting a pic of something or whatever) and the other alliance does not mind, then whatever. But OOC terms that involve rerolls or the other alilance finds unacceptable, then those are well unacceptable.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1307667744' post='2728284']
It's a bit late to complain about the blurring of the IC/OOC line. It hasn't existed for a very long time now.
[/quote]

The line is just as bright and clear as ever. We may have a record number of really bad players who dont recognise or respect it, but the line itself hasnt gone anywhere.

[Locke]

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1307742425' post='2728812']
No, it can and has been done by IP tracking. Like I said though, I've no idea how y'all intend that term, so I will refrain from judging it as OOC.

-Bama
[/quote]
Well, unless they check every IP they ever have access to against him (which I doubt they will), he would need to be acting in ways in which would give them the suspicion in the first place. That said, so long as he made an effort to distance himself from the past character, no matter how successful he is at it, I don't think it would be right to consider them the same. If he says "hey, I was Keve" though, all bets are off.

[Prodigal Moon]

Interesting to see so many different viewpoints on this issue, and with no apparent correlation with IC politics.

[Juana La Loca]

OOC terms equal Imperialism.

When one alliance dictates to another the makeup of their government (including banning a single member from any office) it's hard imperialism.

Whether imperialism is warranted depends on whether and to what extent one embraces that imperialistic urge.

My opinion is that there are damned few instances where imperialism is warranted and those would have to be direct and present threats to the very fabric of CN or to specific groups of nations. Incompetence isn't a reason for hard imperialism. It can often be handled with a decent PR and Destabilization campaign (soft imperialism)..... promises of Guns and Butter have historically worked quite well.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Juana La Loca' timestamp='1307779339' post='2729102']
OOC terms equal Imperialism.

When one alliance dictates to another the makeup of their government (including banning a single member from any office) it's hard imperialism.

Whether imperialism is warranted depends on whether and to what extent one embraces that imperialistic urge.

My opinion is that there are damned few instances where imperialism is warranted and those would have to be direct and present threats to the very fabric of CN or to specific groups of nations. Incompetence isn't a reason for hard imperialism. It can often be handled with a decent PR and Destabilization campaign (soft imperialism)..... promises of Guns and Butter have historically worked quite well.
[/quote]
Okay, can you explain to everyone what you think imperialism means?

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Juana La Loca' timestamp='1307779339' post='2729102']
OOC terms equal Imperialism.
[/quote]

I stopped here. You do not know what Imperialism means.

[Lord Velox]

How do ooc terms=Imperialism?

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1307686428' post='2728462']
OOC terms are always wrong. For that matter, I'm often surprised at what IC "terms" alliances will accept as well. Surrender (aka: admitting one lost the war), a reasonable time frame of staying out of the war (aka: duration - maybe plus 6 months NAP) and reps are as far as it should go. Everything else is taking the game WAY to serious.
[/quote]


Is it? So seeing a leader who caused you a headache and making sure he wont do it again is taking the game way to serious, as to where making topics about hurrr duurrr waaay to bad, you can't keep someone from leadership *rage* .. yeah that's not taking the game to serious at all XD

Well okay, seeing i'm inherently lazy i'm not going to check the ips of every new nation in cn, so be at ease that should Keve ever decide to reroll as a completely different persona nothing will stand in his way. On the otherhand, if Keve69 decides to reroll as Keve70 just to reclaim leadership he will not be allowed, fairly simple, no big discussions needed.

I see people saying there's a CLEAR line between IC and OOC, is that true? I think there are very few players who really differ IC from OOC as in that they are able to have complete opposite views. So in theory when someone says something stupid, and you call him an idiot for it, it's an OOC insult because it's his/her OOC thoughts that make it on the OWF through the IC persona.

[Juana La Loca]

[quote name='SpacingOutMan' timestamp='1307818523' post='2729327']
I stopped here. You do not know what Imperialism means.
[/quote]
[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]
[/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]World English Dictionary [/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"] [b]imperialism [/b] (ɪmˈpɪərɪəˌlɪzəm) — [b][i]n [/i][/b] 1. the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories 2. an instance or policy of aggressive behaviour by one state against another [b]3. [/b][b]the extension or attempted extension of authority, influence, power, etc, by any person, country, institution, etc: [i]cultural imperialism [/i][/b] 4. a system of imperial government or rule by an emperor 5. the spirit, character, authority, etc, of an empire 6. advocacy of or support for any form of imperialism[/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]
[/size][/font]

Seems clear to me. Terms that compromise an alliance's sovereign right to dictate their own government structure or makeup is an extension of influence by one alliance over another.

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Juana La Loca' timestamp='1307843499' post='2729504']
[font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]
[/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]World English Dictionary [/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"] [b]imperialism [/b] (ɪmˈpɪərɪəˌlɪzəm) — [b][i]n [/i][/b] 1. the policy or practice of extending a state's rule over other territories 2. an instance or policy of aggressive behaviour by one state against another [b]3. [/b][b]the extension or attempted extension of authority, influence, power, etc, by any person, country, institution, etc: [i]cultural imperialism [/i][/b] 4. a system of imperial government or rule by an emperor 5. the spirit, character, authority, etc, of an empire 6. advocacy of or support for any form of imperialism[/size][/font][font="Microsoft Sans Serif"][size="2"]
[/size][/font]

Seems clear to me. Terms that compromise an alliance's sovereign right to dictate their own government structure or makeup is an extension of influence by one alliance over another.
[/quote]

With that logic, then, reparations, demilitarization clauses, and no re-entry clauses are also imperialism. All three compromise an alliance's sovereign right to maintain military, fight as they place, and send aid where ever they please. Also, the 3rd definition gives you a different categorization: cultural imperialism.

[quote][b]Cultural imperialism is the domination of one culture over another other by a deliberate policy or by economic or technological superiority.[/b] Cultural imperialism can take the form of an active, formal policy or a general attitude. A metaphor of colonialism is employed: the cultural products of the first world "invade" the third-world and "conquer" local culture.[1] In the stronger variants of the term, world domination (in a cultural sense) is the explicit goal of the nation-states or multinational corporations that export the culture.[1] The term is usually used in a pejorative sense, often in conjunction with a call to reject such influence.

[...]

It can refer to either the forced acculturation of a subject population, or to the voluntary embracing of a foreign culture by individuals who do so of their own free will. Since these are two very different referents, the validity of the term has been called into question.[/quote]

I'm not sure what ideals or premises that R&R forced upon UINE that UINE has already admitted it was doing on its own [i]prior to[/i] the war.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307841941' post='2729488']
I see people saying there's a CLEAR line between IC and OOC, is that true? I think there are very few players who really differ IC from OOC as in that they are able to have complete opposite views.
[/quote]

Well see, the line is right here, I know there are thousands of muddy footprints over it but if you just scrap a bit with your toe and dust a little dirt off you can see it...

Are you "in-game?" Acting or speaking for your nation and/or your alliance? That's in character.

Out of character is real life stuff, nothing to do with the game, with the narrow exception for meta-gaming discussions like this one.

You dont have to have "complete opposite views" from your character to keep the two separated. You just need to keep in mind that stuff from one side shouldnt be carried over to the other side.

[Prime minister Johns]

Personally I would like it if the whole terms thing is kept IC since OOC terms tend to open all sorts of awkward issues. For example is checking another player's IP address on IRC to see if they match records on some EZI list or "no government" list a form of cyber-stalking?

[ty345]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' timestamp='1307871484' post='2729745']
Personally I would like it if the whole terms thing is kept IC since OOC terms tend to open all sorts of awkward issues. For example is checking another player's IP address on IRC to see if they match records on some EZI list or "no government" list a form of cyber-stalking?
[/quote]
It would depend on the situation, but generally speaking I'd probably say no. Not that R&R has any intention of checking random people's IPs on IRC (not saying that you were saying that, but just before somebody else makes the point).

[MrMuz]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' timestamp='1307871484' post='2729745']
Personally I would like it if the whole terms thing is kept IC since OOC terms tend to open all sorts of awkward issues. For example is checking another player's IP address on IRC to see if they match records on some EZI list or "no government" list a form of cyber-stalking?
[/quote]

IMO, it's just fine for completely IC purposes. Many alliances these days do it anyway to screen out spies.

If you're using that IP for any purposes other than in game, like tracing where they live IRL, checking it against some other OOC channel, then it becomes cyberstalking.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1307775573' post='2729086']Interesting to see so many different viewpoints on this issue, and with no apparent correlation with IC politics.[/quote]
Interesting indeed.



[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307841941' post='2729488']Is it? So seeing a leader who caused you a headache and making sure he wont do it again is taking the game way to serious, as to where making topics about hurrr duurrr waaay to bad, you can't keep someone from leadership *rage* .. yeah that's not taking the game to serious at all XD[/quote]
I wonder where you saw that hurrr duurrr and rage stuff in this thread.



[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307841941' post='2729488']Well okay, seeing i'm inherently lazy i'm not going to check the ips of every new nation in cn, so be at ease that should Keve ever decide to reroll as a completely different persona nothing will stand in his way. On the otherhand, if Keve69 decides to reroll as Keve70 just to reclaim leadership he will not be allowed, fairly simple, no big discussions needed.

I see people saying there's a CLEAR line between IC and OOC, is that true?[/quote]
We already worked out that a "Keve70" won't get to be considered a new character (that's plain obvious).
The confusion about the IC/OOC divide is not in theory but in practice: the theory is quite clear (for example, see [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102533&st=60"]Sigrun's post[/url]) but people continue to confuse the two. Think of it like it was a drink driving limit: many drivers continue to drink too much but that doesn't make the limit any less clear.



[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307841941' post='2729488']I think there are very few players who really differ IC from OOC as in that they are able to have complete opposite views. So in theory when someone says something stupid, and you call him an idiot for it, it's an OOC insult because it's his/her OOC thoughts that make it on the OWF through the IC persona.[/quote]
Your example is upside down. If a person takes offence OOC-ly because of an IC "insult" it's fault of the person incapable of distinguishing the two, not of the person "insulting".
If (e.g. playing tennis) someone loses the point for having called a valid shot out, that's certainly not fault of the one making the shot.



[quote name='Prime minister Johns' timestamp='1307871484' post='2729745']For example is checking another player's IP address on IRC to see if they match records on some EZI list or "no government" list a form of cyber-stalking?[/quote]
Checking someone's IP if you have reason to believe that he's someone else "in disguise" should be considered OK IMHO. Harvesting IPs and matching them looking for any information which might come useful is very poor form and below sportsmanlike.
I don't think that any of the two is cyber-stalking, anyway.