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[quote name='AmbroseIV' timestamp='1307542359' post='2726943']
You are [i]so[/i] cute :wub:

If some members of UINE are happy that R&R enabled them to rearrange their alliance then so be it (although, they [i]are[/i] saying it was all intended/in progress before they signed anything... up to UINE to sign it into terms after less than two days of war, I guess) and I'm sure R&R are doing nothing more than sitting back and giggling at the Big Evil stigma they've generated so, instead of berating R&R for being excessive and humiliating UINE for being naive, maybe you should question who was looking out for UINE during the negotiations - I wasn't privy to anything, but surely someone else was there guiding them... right? :mellow:
[/quote]

In my opinion they absolutely should not be happy with the terms that took away their rights. And you are correct, ALL involved in this need to berated, but certainly those that used war to demand the terms and those who accepted such terrible terms should get criticism before anyone else, right? :mellow:

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Team Rocket recognises the sovereignty of Keve69 as Emperor of UINE. Without him at the helm, UINE can't really call themselves UINE and with an another alliance influencing changes within their organisation, it'd just be worth it for UINE to be absorbed or merge with another entity to put this whole situation behind them.

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I will be honest, UINE accepting the terms that basically dictate they do what they were already working on is better than continuing to war and get their nations destroyed over something as ridiculous as not accepting the terms. I do not agree with the terms one iota but as stated, UINE was already doing them. Staying at war hoping for better terms would most likely have done far more damage to UINE than just lost NS. It could have led to loss of members had it continued. At least this way, UINE may lose face for a while, but they retain their alliance. I hope that once a new gov is in place, that UINE will regain their full sovereignty as well.

I hope UINE recovers from this.

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[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1307555941' post='2727101']
I will be honest, UINE accepting the terms that basically dictate they do what they were already working on is better than continuing to war and get their nations destroyed over something as ridiculous as not accepting the terms. I do not agree with the terms one iota but as stated, UINE was already doing them. Staying at war hoping for better terms would most likely have done far more damage to UINE than just lost NS. It could have led to loss of members had it continued. At least this way, UINE may lose face for a while, but they retain their alliance. I hope that once a new gov is in place, that UINE will regain their full sovereignty as well.

I hope UINE recovers from this.
[/quote]

Common sense in my Cybernationz? Get out!

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[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1307539566' post='2726926']
What I don't get is all the UINE members saying how happy they are that they surrendered their sovereignty. Are you guys really that naive and weak willed? What R&R did to you is flat out wrong. It's the stuff people hold grudges for years over and yet y'all seem to be going along with it seemingly without a clue. You guys should be embarrassed and should look for the first opportunity to take back control of your alliance. Because right now, it not really your alliance at all, its R&R's.
[/quote]
I for one am not happy about the whole damn thing. For the record.

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As a member of UINE I can tell you I am not embarrassed by this.

Those terms are ultimately only as meaningful as UINE's potential future without them - which was not meaningful at all.

Infact I think UINE was dying a slow death already after the last war.

So this is either the defib or...

...the end of something, and the start of something else.

Either way, change is good.

So, bring it.

I'm also not sure RnR have come out of this politically unscathed.

A more gentlemanly alliance could have found a much more agreeable solution. By that I certainly mean terms that allowed the weak, losely governed and largely powerless alliance who had transgressed against them to retain some semblance of their sovereignty.

So, I welcome this.

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AS the Minister of Internal Affairs of UINE, I agree with MinuteVariance.

This was bound to happen, RnR just made it come faster. So really we should be thanking them. They are not actually forcing us to do anything they just set up these terms to make it look like they are to Planet Bob. Maybe these terms may make you look stronger than you actually are RnR, but in the eyes of UINE they don't. Not even close.

Not to mention it was rather childish to declare war on a whole alliance because you have no patience. Yes, we were very slow, very very slow, in getting those reps but is war an option? Good job guys. You really only are helping us in the long run.

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[quote name='Piratemonkey530' timestamp='1307635092' post='2727916']
AS the Minister of Internal Affairs of UINE, I agree with MinuteVariance.

This was bound to happen, RnR just made it come faster. So really we should be thanking them. They are not actually forcing us to do anything they just set up these terms to make it look like they are to Planet Bob. Maybe these terms may make you look stronger than you actually are RnR, but in the eyes of UINE they don't. Not even close.

[i]If you guys knew there was a problem were you guys addressing it prior to RnR bushwhacking you? And if not, why?[/i]

Not to mention it was rather childish to declare war on a whole alliance because you have no patience. Yes, we were very slow, very very slow, in getting those reps but is war an option? Good job guys. You really only are helping us in the long run.

[i]If the [b]alliance[/b] as a whole owed reps how long should they have waited?[/i]
[/quote]

Just my observations.

Edited by Spartacus1082
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"If you guys knew there was a problem were you guys addressing it prior to RnR bushwhacking you? And if not, why? "

Yes we were addressing the problems in the charter before RnR attacked. But as Keve was rather busy in RL and as the Emperor it was rather hard to get a new charter written.

"If the alliance as a whole owed reps how long should they have waited?"

To be honest those reps weren't one of our main concerns. Our alliance was beat up pretty hard and we were still in the process of rebuilding ou alliance that was rather battered. We should not have waited that is true, that was our mistake. To be honest I didn't know much about reps, we didn't seem to talk about it much. I'm sure that if Keve made it more urgent that reps were to be paid we would have paid them rather quickly. If you haven't noticed we have already paid the 21mil RnR demanded after the peace agreement.

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[quote name='Wabooz' timestamp='1307528525' post='2726855']
Did Keve have the power to veto impeachments?
All I can come up with is that you realized you couldn't get rid of him and used R&R's help to do it while pretending to be forced. Otherwise I am confused.
[/quote]
i think we have a winner

[quote name='The Archduke' timestamp='1307532645' post='2726883']

Thanks, for starting a war over 21 million without any notice and then delaying a cease-fire with ridiculous demands after a) we comply or announce our intent to comply with their final clauses and b) we agree to pay them their reparations? You must be joking. Not that I find it very funny.
[/quote]

your welcome, thank you for breaking your word on repayment. as for the riduculus demands, yes yet your government accepted which is pretty redonkeyless


[quote name='MinuteVariance' timestamp='1307624213' post='2727858']
As a member of UINE I can tell you I am not embarrassed by this.

<snip>

A more gentlemanly alliance could have found a much more agreeable solution. By that I certainly mean terms that allowed the weak, losely governed and largely powerless alliance who had transgressed against them to retain some semblance of their sovereignty.

So, I welcome this.
[/quote]

Sir, lets reflect what your government had told AiD....

[quote name='AmbroseIV' timestamp='1307542359' post='2726943']
Anyways... I remember 6 months back when, after being raided, we were told by UINE that "small alliances are bound to fail in this climate we are as well helping them fail a little bit faster" and more than anything, I'm just glad they're taking steps to rectify what seemed to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Honestly, best of luck guys - hope everything goes well.
[/quote]


all this welcoming and whimpering from UINE is indeed silly, your government had six months for a dept that could have been easily paid. you were warned. your own prime minister ackowledged that we contacted him, as well, he also stated he did not know about reps and only passed the logs to keve.

if i had an allaince comming to me saying "where's my money female dog" as number two, i would be a bit concerned that i was not aware of what was going on. UINE hopefully this is your wake up call, your actions will not go unchecked, and maybe you need to use this time for soul searching on where you guys are headed, if anywhere.

be well, i am sure we will see each other again.


*edit: English >.>

Edited by dvdcchn
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[quote name='Piratemonkey530' timestamp='1307635092' post='2727916']
AS the Minister of Internal Affairs of UINE, I agree with MinuteVariance.

This was bound to happen, RnR just made it come faster. So really we should be thanking them. They are not actually forcing us to do anything they just set up these terms to make it look like they are to Planet Bob. Maybe these terms may make you look stronger than you actually are RnR, but in the eyes of UINE they don't. Not even close.

Not to mention it was rather childish to declare war on a whole alliance because you have no patience. Yes, we were very slow, very very slow, in getting those reps but is war an option? Good job guys. You really only are helping us in the long run.
[/quote]

We never had any intend of appearing stronger then we are, trust me for an alliance our size taking on an alliance the size of UINE is hardly impressive. If we just wanted to look strong we would not have bothered.

We have no patience? I counted today just for fun since for us this is over, 6 months and [b]17[/b] broken deals in total (one was breaking a reps agreement with more attacks on AiD), threats of disbandment towards an alliance a tenth of your size (yes a bigger size difference then between R&R and UINE), am i leaving something out? All for something so standard as to avoid having to pay a lousy 3M for an attack that should never have happened in the first place. So excuse me for not really caring about UINE's perception of us, cause trust me, until you guys prove you changed, our perception of you is many times worse then the other way around.

So to answer your question, yes war was an option, you're one of the very VERY few around here that even consider war to not have been an option, and on a forum where just about every alliance is represented that's a big accomplishment.

As for helping you in the long run, time will tell.

[quote name='Piratemonkey530' timestamp='1307637932' post='2727947']
"If you guys knew there was a problem were you guys addressing it prior to RnR bushwhacking you? And if not, why? "

Yes we were addressing the problems in the charter before RnR attacked. But as Keve was rather busy in RL and as the Emperor it was rather hard to get a new charter written.

"If the alliance as a whole owed reps how long should they have waited?"

To be honest those reps weren't one of our main concerns. Our alliance was beat up pretty hard and we were still in the process of rebuilding ou alliance that was rather battered. We should not have waited that is true, that was our mistake. To be honest I didn't know much about reps, we didn't seem to talk about it much. I'm sure that if Keve made it more urgent that reps were to be paid we would have paid them rather quickly. If you haven't noticed we have already paid the 21mil RnR demanded after the peace agreement.
[/quote]

To be honest those reps should have been paid long before that war you talk about. We actually demanded 18M your government was gracious enough to throw in an extra 3M that wasn't accepted by an inactive nation earlier. But yes this time payment was fast

[quote name='Piratemonkey530' timestamp='1307660345' post='2728200']
Alliances should contact more than just two government officials if needed not start out a huge war. If someone had contacted me I would have helped in some way but it seems to me like RnR really didn't want reps, they wanted a another war.
[/quote]

I know for sure we contacted at least 6 which with an inactive alliance is pretty hard. Problem is they either made deals Keve then cancelled because he was the only one authorized to make deals or they did not care and reffered us to.. yes Keve.



Anyways, it all doesn't matter anymore, what's done is done.

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Wow. This almost sounds like installing a Viceroy, without actually installing a viceroy. In other words, it almost sounds like someone found a loophole in the ToS rules, and used it to their advantage.

But, I dunno the full story of what happened here, so could someone nicely explain it before I comment further and risk sticking my foot in my mouth?

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[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307667839' post='2728285']
Anyways, it all doesn't matter anymore, what's done is done.
[/quote]
Yes, what is done is done. Maybe this war was precedented, yes. I do not doubt that R&R is a respectable alliance considering that peace terms have come along which to me are not harsh but on the contrary, rather reasonable. I will speak the truth and say that I myself was rather inactive throughout these months but I definitely would have done something to help but alas, it was not possible for me. I can not speak on behalf of the other government members but as me, Piratemonkey the Minister of Internal Affairs, I would like to apologize for the actions of our ex-leader Keve and for our governments actions, or in this case no action at all.

I hope we can prove to you one day that we have changed. Obviously we have not completely changed yet, but are definitely on track.

Best of luck in the future.

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[quote name='PMoses' timestamp='1307668529' post='2728290']
Wow. This almost sounds like installing a Viceroy, without actually installing a viceroy. In other words, it almost sounds like someone found a loophole in the ToS rules, and used it to their advantage.

But, I dunno the full story of what happened here, so could someone nicely explain it before I comment further and risk sticking my foot in my mouth?
[/quote]


OOC: I don't think you're familiar with the rules. Viceroys are totally acceptable, the only thing that is not is handing over of OOC property (aka: root admin access, etc. /OOC


From an academic standpoint, I do enjoy the irony being perpetuated in these threads.

Those who say the surrender terms are an abridgement of an alliances internal workings and self determination at the same time insinuate that an alliance should not be able to determine what they deem to be acceptable surrender terms.

Edit: OOC tags.

Edited by IYIyTh
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[quote name='PMoses' timestamp='1307668529' post='2728290']
Wow. This almost sounds like installing a Viceroy, without actually installing a viceroy. In other words, it almost sounds like someone found a loophole in the ToS rules, and used it to their advantage.

But, I dunno the full story of what happened here, so could someone nicely explain it before I comment further and risk sticking my foot in my mouth?
[/quote]
hypothetically viceroys are still allowed, you just cant control their forums, you could however control their treaties and any external and internal decisions they made, where to send aid and the like.

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[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1307688512' post='2728472']
OOC: I don't think you're familiar with the rules. Viceroys are totally acceptable, the only thing that is not is handing over of OOC property (aka: root admin access, etc. /OOC


From an academic standpoint, I do enjoy the irony being perpetuated in these threads.

Those who say the surrender terms are an abridgement of an alliances internal workings and self determination at the same time insinuate that an alliance should not be able to determine what they deem to be acceptable surrender terms.

Edit: OOC tags.
[/quote]


[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1307690470' post='2728492']
hypothetically viceroys are still allowed, you just cant control their forums, you could however control their treaties and any external and internal decisions they made, where to send aid and the like.
[/quote]

Ah, thanks for making that point more clear to me. Still in my humble opinion forcing a charter change is beyond acceptable surrender terms, and the fact that UNIE accepted them is weird. Unless of course going back to one of their members post, they wanted to coup there leader, and didn't know how to do it without RnR's help.

However, if Viceroys are allowed, I vote Mogar for Viceroy :D

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