Ayatollah Bromeini Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Classy as usual, R&R. Wouldn't expect anything less o/ R&R o/ UINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFreaky Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1307504339' post='2726588'] Why didn't you just install a viceroy? [/quote] Yeah it was considered [quote name='Merlinus' timestamp='1307504446' post='2726591'] Peace is good. permanent intrusion with aa government is frowned upon. Understandable given this particular situation, but if you want to determine how the aa governs, merge them into your aa as a Protectorate and teach them. Else, the war never ends. [/quote] This was considered too, but then we would actually have to defend them and cover for their screw-ups. We're well aware of how the terms will be received, so a little explanation. After our attack all we got was "omg, we didn't know", "blame keve", "why are you punishing all of us for one persons actions" from member to government. So we looked over everything that happened and decided to fix the problems before it happens again with one of our allies or someone else for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheListener Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Seems to be a fair resolution, not sure I like the term 5 even though it's pretty redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandellav Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I believe that some of these terms reek of practices I thought had been abolished from inter-alliance politics for being harsh and...unsportsmanlike. I personally find these terms deplorable. Reparations may have been par for the course in this case, but such infringement on sovereignty, regardless of how questionable the governing qualities of the deposed leader appear to be, should only be used in the most extreme of circumstances. The circumstances in this case were rather tame and this is a travesty harking back to the old ways which Karma set out to destroy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1307504339' post='2726588'] Why didn't you just install a viceroy? [/quote] [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1307504352' post='2726589'] Good to know R&R is in the dictating-other-alliances'-business business. No !@#$, right? [/quote] I was wondering how long it would take for this to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Spreading freedom and democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1307505370' post='2726619'] Spreading freedom and democracy. [/quote] through superior fire power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1307505322' post='2726618'] I was wondering how long it would take for this to start. [/quote] That is started, my friend, was inevitable... this is Planet Bob after all. That they are 100% right, though, is pretty sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoshawk Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Oh cool, R&R installs democracy in UINE. I don't think UINE members wouldn't mind the more democratic changes these terms force them to do after seeing keve69's inactivity and/or incompetence rather than couping him afterward. A good opportunity for them I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogar Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Chaoshawk' timestamp='1307505823' post='2726628'] Oh cool, R&R installs democracy in UINE. I don't think UINE members wouldn't mind the more democratic changes these terms force them to do after seeing keve69's inactivity and/or incompetence rather than couping him afterward. A good opportunity for them I believe. [/quote] Certain people do not deserve to be a dictator, you always need at least someone else who can also speak for the alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EgoFreaky Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Chaoshawk' timestamp='1307505823' post='2726628'] Oh cool, R&R installs democracy in UINE. I don't think UINE members wouldn't mind the more democratic changes these terms force them to do after seeing keve69's inactivity and/or incompetence rather than couping him afterward. A good opportunity for them I believe. [/quote] Actually you're right, the current gov members already wanted reforms but where stonewalled. Wejust made sure the next leaser doesn't go on a powertrip and stonewalls it again. The terms everyone is baawing about where actually not such a hot topic during discussions it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I applaud these terms. Get what you want and leave your eternal impression upon the defeated alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 This definitely could have been handled better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochers Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1307505136' post='2726613'] So we looked over everything that happened and decided to fix the problems before it happens again with one of our allies or someone else for that matter. [/quote] So gracious. Thank you RnR, what would Bob do without you?!? /sarcasm [quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1307505311' post='2726617'] I believe that some of these terms reek of practices I thought had been abolished from inter-alliance politics for being harsh and...unsportsmanlike. I personally find these terms deplorable. Reparations may have been par for the course in this case, but such infringement on sovereignty, regardless of how questionable the governing qualities of the deposed leader appear to be, should only be used in the most extreme of circumstances. The circumstances in this case were rather tame and this is a travesty harking back to the old ways which Karma set out to destroy. [/quote] I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1307505564' post='2726623'] is pretty sad. [/quote] Is it though? I think that depends on how earnest you think R&R is about their implied intentions. They seem genuinely to want to teach them something now that they've found out what a disaster of an alliance they are. That pretty much can only be accomplished two ways when your an adversary, either by a forced guiding hand or by beating their face in for a substantial period of time. Instead of going with the latter, they went with the former and ended the war after only a few days. Stigmas of old were based on situations where such forced guiding hands were blatantly used to harm under nothing but the most facial assertion of a false benevolent pretext, and maybe its just me, but that's just not the feeling I get here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWZepf Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm not too big a fan of these terms. Messing with another alliances internal affairs doesn't seem right. Whatevs though, congrats on the peace RnR and UINE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtkode Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'm very happy that peace was acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demosthenes Locke Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Ridin High' timestamp='1307506239' post='2726634'] I applaud these terms. Get what you want and leave your eternal impression upon the defeated alliance. [/quote] Too bad we couldn't do the same to bandwagoners like yourself. As for the rest of you who are crying about how cruel and imperialist we are: get over it. We gave you our explanation for the terms agreed upon by both parties, they won't be changing anytime soon. There has never been a time where R&R did not conduct itself in the best manner possible during negotiations or diplomatic affairs. You will be very hard-pressed to find an example of malevolent motive behind any R&R action. Edited June 8, 2011 by Demosthenes Locke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Bromeini Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1307505370' post='2726619'] Spreading freedom and democracy. [/quote] One n00k at a time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Craig Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) The irony of it all. The killing of thousands, perhaps even millions of people -- this is acceptable to the critics in the thread -- but to demand that an alliance modify its behavior -- [i]THAT[/i] is an intolerable violation of sovereignty! Oh, the horror of dethroning a failed emperor! Kill the people, burn the cities, but spare the leaders! If that is what passes for "moralism" then I am indeed a proud member of the immoral camp. Congratulations on a swift victory to my friends in R&R. You cast aside a failing autocrat and brought democracy to a struggling alliance. -Craig Edited June 8, 2011 by Comrade Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEra97 Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Although R&R had good reason to attack UINE, this resolution seems excessive. I knew that Bob has been going backwards for quite some time, but not this quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1307504946' post='2726601'] I'm fairly sure term 5 was already common sense. Even without the term, UINE would be in boiling water if they attacked any alliance that can cause serious harm. [/quote] Term 5 is just poorly written. As written, it would prevent UINE from attacking R&R or any ally of R&R in response to R&R/ally attacking an ally of UINE. Although, they end the term with the odd phrasing that amounts to "UINE attacking us is an act of war" which is, well, duh. It already was. Not that it matters much, since it isn't like UINE is going to be turning any tides in any hypothetical wars, but, still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1307506452' post='2726640'] Is it though? I think that depends on how earnest you think R&R is about their implied intentions. They seem genuinely to want to teach them something now that they've found out what a disaster of an alliance they are. That pretty much can only be accomplished two ways when your an adversary, either by a forced guiding hand or by beating their face in for a substantial period of time. Instead of going with the latter, they went with the former and ended the war after only a few days. Stigmas of old were based on situations where such forced guiding hands were blatantly used to harm under nothing but the most facial assertion of a false benevolent pretext, and maybe its just me, but that's just not the feeling I get here. [/quote] Maybe I just believe more in survival of the fittest. RnR Gov have stated that the rest of the gov was sick of being stonewalled in thier attempts to do anything. Stonewalled by a dictator that they could not overcome. Yet, this dictator they could not overcome, a) did not sign these terms and b) was "temporarily deposed" in a prior UINE announcement to deal with this war. You know what that means? It means that they could have, in that exact same way, overcome those same stonewalls, by the same means they used in the resolution of this war. You know what else? They simply did not care enough to. If you blindly follow a fail leader, and try nothing to change it, then rest on the fact that you "cant change it." Then you follow it up by proving that you CAN overcome it.. Then they deserved every bit of the beatdown they just got. Further, they would deserve every bit of every future beatdown Keve caused them. You know what though... they had a right to choose for themselves. To take the ability for them to choose their own fate away from them, is not doing them any favors, it is making them sheep to the more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kochers Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1307506452' post='2726640'] Is it though? I think that depends on how earnest you think R&R is about their implied intentions. They seem genuinely to want to teach them something now that they've found out what a disaster of an alliance they are. That pretty much can only be accomplished two ways when your an adversary, either by a forced guiding hand or by beating their face in for a substantial period of time. Instead of going with the latter, they went with the former and ended the war after only a few days. Stigmas of old were based on situations where such forced guiding hands were blatantly used to harm under nothing but the most facial assertion of a false benevolent pretext, and maybe its just me, but that's just not the feeling I get here. [/quote] So sovereignty is relative to someone else's intentions? Seriously though, I thought it was pretty much universally accepted that violating another alliances sovereignty post-Karma was a no-no, irregardless of the intention behind it. Even if the change turns out to be positive, it was still achieved the wrong way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1307506831' post='2726652'] Maybe I just believe more in survival of the fittest. RnR Gov have stated that the rest of the gov was sick of being stonewalled in thier attempts to do anything. Stonewalled by a dictator that they could not overcome. Yet, this dictator they could not overcome, a) did not sign these terms and b) was "temporarily deposed" in a prior UINE announcement to deal with this war. You know what that means? It means that they could have, in that exact same way, overcome those same stonewalls, by the same means they used in the resolution of this war. You know what else? They simply did not care enough to. If you blindly follow a fail leader, and try nothing to change it, then rest on the fact that you "cant change it." Then you follow it up by proving that you CAN overcome it.. Then they deserved every bit of the beatdown they just got. Further, they would deserve every bit of every future beatdown Keve caused them. You know what though... they had a right to choose for themselves. To take the ability for them to choose their own fate away from them, is not doing them any favors, it is making them sheep to the more powerful. [/quote] Oh sure, I agree. Personally I would have just beat the living hell out of them for 2 weeks, probably even harder when it was uncovered how much of a mess they were just so they got the point (then again I'm a prick). My point was though, while the direction R&R went with this isn't the popular choice, that doesn't mean its necessarily something to be scoffed at, sad, or bad, particularly given the context. Sure it takes away their ability to choose their own fate in some respect, but so do a lot of things. [quote name='Kochers' timestamp='1307506934' post='2726653'] So sovereignty is relative to someone else's intentions? [/quote] Yes, it is. Edited June 8, 2011 by Il Impero Romano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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