What Would It Take?

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Ezequiel' timestamp='1307129276' post='2723218']
I say, don't ZI. If you want to get back at them, do something useful. Sabotage them. I.E. Don't allow them to be social in the game, join an alliance, etc.
[/quote]
This was essentially the primary purpose of P/EZI.

[Ezequiel]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1307129386' post='2723219']
This was essentially the primary purpose of P/EZI.
[/quote]

That still has the same affects of ZI, it's warring them until they have 0 infra. I meant more so of mental sabotage rather than physical sabotage. No matter how many times you do it, they can always get around it. Not so easy with mental sabotage.

Ezequiel.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Ezequiel' timestamp='1307129276' post='2723218']
I do not understand the meaning of ZI, PZI, or EZI'ing anyone. What's it good for, really? You're going to take away some of their cash, their infra. Maybe some tech if you're lucky. You'll lose cash, etc. What's this going to solve though, I'll tell you; nothing. They will just join another alliance or re-roll and voila! You lost a bunch of money for nothing.

I say, don't ZI. If you want to get back at them, do something useful. Sabotage them. I.E. Don't allow them to be social in the game, join an alliance, etc.

Destroying their Infra. really doesn't do anything. A few alliance have this down, but most don't. That's my opinion.

Ezequiel.
[/quote]

I think the idea was that, since they were under constant attack, their ability to participate socially (i.e join an alliance) was restricted. So it did do what you said it should have.

[Zoomzoomzoom]

Forum hacking deserves an E-ZI.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Ezequiel' timestamp='1307129276' post='2723218']
I do not understand the meaning of ZI, PZI, or EZI'ing anyone. What's it good for, really? You're going to take away some of their cash, their infra. Maybe some tech if you're lucky. You'll lose cash, etc. What's this going to solve though, I'll tell you; nothing. They will just join another alliance or re-roll and voila! You lost a bunch of money for nothing.

I say, don't ZI. If you want to get back at them, do something useful. Sabotage them. I.E. Don't allow them to be social in the game, join an alliance, etc.

Destroying their Infra. really doesn't do anything. A few alliance have this down, but most don't. That's my opinion.

Ezequiel.
[/quote]
They were restricted from joining any alliances because they were at war with an alliance. In the case of EZI, if they re-rolled they would still be considered at war with the alliance and so could not go rejoin a new alliance, or would lose their membership when they were discovered.

[HHAYD]

EZI: Breaking an alliance's forums or hacking their members' accounts, including non-CN ones (such as bank accounts...) and spilling out personal information (or worse, for the usage of identity theft).

Cross the OOC line, you deserve to be brutally punished, especially if its illegal in RL.

Edited June 4, 2011 by HHAYD

[Cobalt]

I see PZI/EZI as a community enforced ban from the game. If the player hasn't violated any of the game/forum rules but has still done things everyone else agrees are way to far over the line to continue being here - then PZI/EZI is an option. However I can't think of many circumstances where you could push the community that far without breaking any game/forum rules. IIRC, admin ain't too cool with people who commit RL crime as a part of his game.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1307116660' post='2723135']
Ha, speaking of ultimate punishments, what does it take for an alliance to be worth disbanding?
[/quote]
Having a different point of view.

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Cobalt' timestamp='1307159156' post='2723520']
I see PZI/EZI as a community enforced ban from the game. If the player hasn't violated any of the game/forum rules but has still done things everyone else agrees are way to far over the line to continue being here - then PZI/EZI is an option. However I can't think of many circumstances where you could push the community that far without breaking any game/forum rules. IIRC, admin ain't too cool with people who commit RL crime as a part of his game.
[/quote]
Make it more interesting. PZI is more like a community enforced Death Sentence for the ruler. EZI is more like community enforced banishment of the player. The community in question might be a single alliance, with the muscle to make it happen, or a majority of Planet Bob in cases which offend the sensibilities of the planet as a whole. In IC terms PZI is the worst you can mete out a Nation Ruler.

[Joey67500]

Yeah, OOC activities that are illegal generally constitute PZI, and legal action sometimes.

As for EZI, Peggy_Sue nuff said.

[MrMuz]

[quote name='Ezequiel' timestamp='1307129276' post='2723218']
I do not understand the meaning of ZI, PZI, or EZI'ing anyone. What's it good for, really? You're going to take away some of their cash, their infra. Maybe some tech if you're lucky. You'll lose cash, etc. What's this going to solve though, I'll tell you; nothing. They will just join another alliance or re-roll and voila! You lost a bunch of money for nothing.

I say, don't ZI. If you want to get back at them, do something useful. Sabotage them. I.E. Don't allow them to be social in the game, join an alliance, etc.

Destroying their Infra. really doesn't do anything. A few alliance have this down, but most don't. That's my opinion.
[/quote]

PZI/EZI is as far as you can go IC. Many alliances do track IP and some details of known rogues/spies and hand them to any friend with PIAT and above level access. While that alliance may not be EZI'ed they will be immediately blocked from joining a lot of alliances. Hence why that EZI treaty didn't enforce how some people are treated after rerolling.

And not to mention that someone sentenced to ZI is actually barred from most alliances (except maybe NSO). A nation in ZI is militarily worthless to the alliance and a threat to that alliance's security.

EZI in itself, mainly the ZI bit, is a very difficult sentence to enforce because you have to actually track people past rerolls.

[Joey67500]

[quote name='MrMuz' timestamp='1307193017' post='2723726']
PZI/EZI is as far as you can go IC. Many alliances do track IP and some details of known rogues/spies and hand them to any friend with PIAT and above level access. While that alliance may not be EZI'ed they will be immediately blocked from joining a lot of alliances. Hence why that EZI treaty didn't enforce how some people are treated after rerolling.

And not to mention that someone sentenced to ZI is actually barred from most alliances (except maybe NSO). A nation in ZI is militarily worthless to the alliance and a threat to that alliance's security.

EZI in itself, mainly the ZI bit, is a very difficult sentence to enforce because you have to actually track people past rerolls.
[/quote]

IIRC, I once had to ZI a nation and he immediately rerolled upon being hit, except he used the same nation and ruler name... So tracking him was pretty easy.

[Hereno]

PZI for anything that doesn't involve OOC aspects is straight up unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Having someone actually delete their nation over going rogue or dumping logs is just being a #!@% and I'm glad the community seems to be against that kind of behavior. I could really only see PZI used fairly when forums or IRC channels are actually hacked. Not stolen by people with access in a coup, or commandeered by the guy who pays for them, but actually hacked into. I could see EZI if the person was making RL OOC attacks and spreading around financial information or something, but I feel like Admin might take care of that on his own for us having to issue out an EZI.

[Lord Velox]

boredom

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1307195726' post='2723737']
I could see EZI if the person was making RL OOC attacks and spreading around financial information or something, but I feel like Admin might take care of that on his own for us having to issue out an EZI.PZI for anything that doesn't involve OOC aspects is straight up unacceptable as far as I'm concerned. Having someone actually delete their nation over going rogue or dumping logs is just being a #!@% and I'm glad the community seems to be against that kind of behavior. I could really only see PZI used fairly when forums or IRC channels are actually hacked. Not stolen by people with access in a coup, or commandeered by the guy who pays for them, but actually hacked into. I could see EZI if the person was making RL OOC attacks and spreading around financial information or something, but I feel like Admin might take care of that on his own for us having to issue out an EZI.
[/quote]

There is a small matter of jurisdiction here. Admin, omnipotent as He may be in this verse, actually has no sway outside these bounds. Nor is he the arbiter on an accusations of OOC infringements. As long as a Nation Ruler is a model denizen of this realm, and acts in accordance with Admin's laws, the ruler stays. About the rest of it, it is actually a valid in-game action to keep a nation engaged in war for as long as you wish. Is it a dick move You bet your ass it is, Do some folks deserve to be dicked with in this manner, again, you bet your ass they do. There will always be those that agree with the practice [if not in general then in particular case] and those that are opposed to it. Eventually, it will always boil down to how confident someone is about being able to pull it off without short term unpleasant repercussions.

[eyriq]

EZI's and PZI's should remain taboo, as the power to enact them can quickly spiral out of control and become a common place tool for ensuring security and justifying unfair and game damaging play. The nature of the war against a player can instead define itself based on the evolving behavior of the player. For instance if I war your nation and I get jumped by your alliance than peace should eventually be reached once the risk is removed. If I jump it again then getting peace will be all the harder, and so on. War as a punishment for bad behavior should be equal to the crime, but no immediate crime is worthy of a sentence that in effect kills a nation. If through the horrible play of a nation or a nation's alliance they reach a non-functional nation, than that is on them.

Nation ending measures should be out of our hands. If the player violates forums or game rules then the Mods delete his nation.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1307205784' post='2723773']
There is a small matter of jurisdiction here. Admin, omnipotent as He may be in this verse, actually has no sway outside these bounds. Nor is he the arbiter on an accusations of OOC infringements. As long as a Nation Ruler is a model denizen of this realm, and acts in accordance with Admin's laws, the ruler stays. About the rest of it, it is actually a valid in-game action to keep a nation engaged in war for as long as you wish. Is it a dick move You bet your ass it is, Do some folks deserve to be dicked with in this manner, again, you bet your ass they do. There will always be those that agree with the practice [if not in general then in particular case] and those that are opposed to it. Eventually, it will always boil down to how confident someone is about being able to pull it off without short term unpleasant repercussions.
[/quote]

Well, yeah, I don't suppose He could do a whole lot. That's a pretty reasonable stance to have, then. I suppose it would make more sense to take each sentence on a case-by-case basis.. which makes this thread a little silly, because no two cases are exactly the same. That said, I'm personally happy that community standards for PZI and EZI are fairly high, especially nowadays, and can leave it at that.

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1307083888' post='2723002']
I prefer the method employed by NPO and GOONS over ZI: they go on a target list, and they don't come off it until they plead their case or we feel they've had enough. It's just so much more efficient.
[/quote]

This makes the most sense to me.

So, say someone screwed your alliance out of a bunch of tech or cash aid: ZI them until they either successfully plead their case or the debt that they owe is forcibly wringed out of them.

Edited June 5, 2011 by LegendoftheSkies