Duncan King Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304283538' post='2703351'] I don't understand how spying during war equals CB for later. Are you people seriously considering that? [/quote] It worked for [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/TPF_War"]Athens[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyrinx Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 That was a really interesting read, thanks Schat. And I still don't understand how what CoJ did could be considered threatening your protectorate, nor do I understand how using a weapon of war (spying) during a war could be grounds for demanding an apology. But hey, what do I know right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304294487' post='2703515'] Well excuse me for not be so credulous and understanding of you people. I mean it was only just a while ago when someone from your bloc that did exactly what you are joking around about right now. And the fact that you seem to have changed your attitude about giving white peace to CoJ only further makes it look like you're just backpedaling. Maybe if your government were a bit less two-faced about these negotiations, then people would have an easier time believing you. The way I see it is that you just want to make CoJ suffer because you simply don't like them. A week ago, you shrugging away this spying business and acting all big and tough about it. Now you say that you want CoJ to incur some consequences for the spying. Do you see what I mean? Do you understand why it's pretty damn difficult to believe you? [/quote] Before TWiN 1: <Schattenmann> CoJ has offered to surrender three times since hostilities began and ODN has refused each one pending total peace. If that's still your assertion then sure, the negotiations may be over but the war is not until it is <OsRavan[ODN]> yes and yes <OsRavan[ODN]> we will not even be voting on your terms until after you have secured a perliminary agreement with mk <Schattenmann> As long as you understand that and we don't get a bunch of "you attacked after our agreement!" if we launch further attacks CoJ attempted to end or war with ODN over and over and over again. We ignored ODN's war against us for a month, they attacked us after we had already been at war for a month so we didn't even have much steam left to begin with, but they refused to be content with a surrender. If ODN wanted CoJ to roll over, the time passed the third time they rejected our surrender. Edited May 2, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitsen Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks for the feature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Twizzler' timestamp='1304284313' post='2703361'] Well written as always. [/quote] ODN is full of good writers. And Schatt is a talented editor, clearly. This is a beautiful collaboration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigrun Vapneir Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 Carrying out an act of war, [i]while in fact at war with the target[/i], as a CB to save for the future, has to be one of the most ridiculous ideas I've seen yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='NOMNOMNOM' timestamp='1304288417' post='2703407'] stuff [/quote] Just stop posting. Not only do you make yourself look awful, but you make your alliance look bad too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Jyrinx' timestamp='1304295396' post='2703531'] That was a really interesting read, thanks Schat. And I still don't understand how what CoJ did could be considered threatening your protectorate, nor do I understand how using a weapon of war (spying) during a war could be grounds for demanding an apology. But hey, what do I know right? [/quote] It all comes down to ants and magnifying glasses. Everyone--this side that side, whatever--knows that sending ODN Applicant spam about the war or telling TFE that aiding in war is an act of war deserves an apology. But OsRavan has whipped up his membership with all sort of misrepresentations of me as this insane tinpot dictator bent on never giving in even though I've made effort after effort to get this over with. So, now they're all WE WANT AN APOLOGY BYAAAHHHH and he plays Mr Man of the People and tells Doomhouse they need it, Doomhouse puts it in knowing how retarded ODN is. Let me ask you this, why does ODN even think they deserve any terms? They came to the party a month late on a 18-nation micro that was 50% peacemode and 50% bill-locked. ODN wears panties. They didn't do jack crap for this war, but they think they're entitled to lulz terms and apologies and a seat at the grownups table. Their declaration of war against us was a joke because ODN is a joke, and they mistook me for joke. I am reasonable, I know when I've lost, so I tried to play ball with ODN and surrender with their demands of an admission of defeat so I can't "claim I won later" and I agreed to do their !@#$@#$ retarded lulz crap so they wouldn't feel like they gave us white peace, but nothing is good enough. So here we are. Every week they delay is another edition of TWiN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOMNOMNOM Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Jyrinx' timestamp='1304295396' post='2703531'] And I still don't understand how what CoJ did could be considered threatening your protectorate, [/quote] He sent a mass ingame pm saying that he would declare war on them if they did not stop tech dealing. [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1304297214' post='2703552'] Just stop posting. Not only do you make yourself look awful, but you make your alliance look bad too. [/quote] NOMNOMNOM reporting in for $#@!poster of the ODN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304280429' post='2703320'] OsRavan is already hard at work on that "orange compatriots" thing; ODN diplomats have arrived at TOP and initiated the question-and-answer period that proceeds most TOP treaties. ODN and TOP will make a perfect couple, with MK chaperoning all dates, of course. [/quote] All the bedroom dates will be hosted in Bowser's Keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='NOMNOMNOM' timestamp='1304297481' post='2703555'] He sent a mass ingame pm saying that he would declare war on them if they did not stop tech dealing.[/quote] You are an ignorant liar. I have not spammed TFE about anything. Yawoo and HeroofTime had IRC convos with the leader of TFE in which no threats were issued, and we repeated our position about the aid in TFE's protection announcement. End of story. This is why these demands for apologies are such a joke. The ODN members that OsRavan keeps asking to internally debate what they want from CoJ don't even know what they're talking about. "Hello 340 members of ODN that don't even bother voting in the SecGen elections much less know what's going on in the world, how do [i]you [/i]think we should end the war with CoJ?" [quote name='NOMNOMNOM' timestamp='1304297481' post='2703555'] NOMNOMNOM reporting in for $#@!poster of the ODN [/quote] Like clockwork. Edited May 2, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304297460' post='2703554'] Every week they delay is another edition of TWiN. [/quote] Good to see you taking the higher moral ground. "They're being stubborn and wont give me peace. Well, i'll be more stubborn and teach them!" [quote name='NOMNOMNOM' timestamp='1304297481' post='2703555'] NOMNOMNOM reporting in for $#@!poster of the ODN [/quote] This isn't something to be proud of. Os, what happened to Templar'd threads? Can you extend the rule to individual posters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304297706' post='2703560'] ignorant liar.[/quote] Spot the oxymoron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1304297745' post='2703561'] Good to see you taking the higher moral ground. "They're being stubborn and wont give me peace. Well, i'll be more stubborn and teach them!" [/quote] Oh, I should take the moral high ground? Gee. Shut up. If ODN doesn't want peace, then they want war. I tried to give them one, they wanted the other. Here we are. These idiots don't even understand that they aggressively attacked us. I think it's important for youngins like OsRavan to understand that when you attack people, things happen. It would be immoral of me not to help him in this regard. Edited May 2, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckz3 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304297983' post='2703570'] Oh, I should take the moral high ground? Gee. Shut up. If ODN doesn't want peace, then they want war. I tried to give them one, they wanted the other. Here we are. These idiots don't even understand that they aggressively attacked us. I think it's important for youngins like OsRavan to understand that when you attack people, things happen. It would be immoral of me not to help him in this regard. [/quote] I completely agree with what has been said here, ODN has been given many options. I know many hours have been spent discussing peace terms. We only began TWiN because no good was coming from wasting hours upon hours in Private channels discussing peace with worthless terms that ODN didnt even fight for. Edited May 2, 2011 by Duckz3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Vitsen' timestamp='1304296222' post='2703537'] Thanks for the feature! [/quote] I liked your posts too. :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itseZe Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304297460' post='2703554'] Every week they delay is another edition of TWiN. [/quote] You mean that when this war is over there won't be any more TWiN? We can't let that happen, can we? Maybe we should really look into this eternal war thing. I need my weekly TWiN, and I don't want to write another one myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 You know, the most disappointing thing to me in all of this is that I entered this war with an impression of ODN formed in the time of the Pax Pacifica, hearing stories about how ODN got ripped on by NPO all the time and forced to swear allegiance to Emperor Moldavi and take a viceroy and all the worst things that happened in that era. I heard about how they had strong ideals about democracy and how they suffered for that. So even though I had no friends in ODN or not much in common with ODN, I felt like ODN was an alliance that understands things. Having gotten to know ODN up close and personal, I can't really say how frustrated I am. Instead, what I have to deal with is an alliance that thinks its entitled to terms for kicking us while we're down, that thinks its entitled to apologies when it was in control of the situation the entire time, that thinks that they get to keep CoJ down because they can. I survived NPO by keeping the fire burning, ODN survived NPO by getting cozy and forsaking themselves; now ODN can't understand why CoJ won't just do the same. They think we're insane, I think they're insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsRavan Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Duckz3' timestamp='1304298324' post='2703573'] I completely agree with what has been said here, ODN has been given many options. I know many hours have been spent discussing peace terms. We only began TWiN because no good was coming from wasting hours upon hours in Private channels discussing peace with worthless terms that ODN didnt even fight for. [/quote] ::amused:: *coj* has been given 'many chances' by us. I dont know what Schatt is telling *his* members. But you've been offered terms... terms that have been on the table for some time now. You've chosen not to accept them as is your right. But don't come crying to me when you don't. I sppose if you surrendered Schatt would lose a chance to be the center of attention. Honestly, i've negotiated peace with a large number of alliances of all shapes and sizes. CoJ is the first one i've dealt with where you can't have a simple conversation without their leaders trying to drag you into bizzaro world. In any event if you want peace you know what to do. If you dont, you are welcome to keep spamming TWIN threads every week and hope that changes our mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304299065' post='2703580'] ::amused:: *coj* has been given 'many chances' by us. I dont know what Schatt is telling *his* members. [/quote] Unlike your members, much less even your Senate, Justitians have been shown nearly every log between you and I (it's a luxury of having a membership I can trust). They know you refused peace in February and March, and they know what terms you offered in April, and because they know that, they know that the terms you offered two weeks later were different. They also know that after all that, you again yanked the rug out from under us and instead sent a term to the coalition after wasting all the time negotiating the previous two versions of terms. They also know that they have not approved of any of the versions yet, but that I have told them that we would be taking them regardless, but what does that matter when my counterpart in negotiations can't do the same and changes things on the whim of 340 people? As for your vaunted negotiating skills, they amounted to "GOONS, how much money do you want from 18-nation CoJ? $400,000,000? Ok, CoJ, give this man his money." Edited May 2, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OsRavan Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304299301' post='2703581'] Unlike your members, much less even your Senate, Justitians have been shown nearly every log between you and I. [/quote] What you seem to have had trouble grasping, I dont understand why, is that ODN is not an alliance where I as Sec-Gen impose my will and ideas on the membership. Instead, it has been the senate and GA who have determined the tone and demands of my conversations with you. Ive not kept any conversations we have had secret. You don't like that the GA of ODN decides your terms? That's what you get when you war with a democracy. I *will* agree 100 percent btw, that you had no understanding of ODN culture and some weird impressions of us going into this war. I gave a "hallelujah" when you just posted that. I'm glad we've managed to dispel some of the odd ideas you seem to have had about us (not that your new ideas seem all that accurate, but one thing at a time.) If nothing else, it will be a relief to me not to have to listen to you go on about the 'potential' of ODN. Especially when our 'potential' to your eyes seemed to mean abandoning our allies. That is worth any number of TWIN threads. In any event, if you have kept your Justinians up to date, then they should be aware that you have been offered peace terms that you have chosen, to date, not to accept. I find it odd that your members seem to be so confused, thinking you were not offered terms or that we have simply been refusing peace with you. Especially since you happened to quote the peace term offered to you in this very thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304298808' post='2703578'] You know, the most disappointing thing to me in all of this is that I entered this war with an impression of ODN formed in the time of the Pax Pacifica, hearing stories about how ODN got ripped on by NPO all the time and forced to swear allegiance to Emperor Moldavi and take a viceroy and all the worst things that happened in that era. I heard about how they had strong ideals about democracy and how they suffered for that. So even though I had no friends in ODN or not much in common with ODN, I felt like ODN was an alliance that understands things. Having gotten to know ODN up close and personal, I can't really say how frustrated I am. Instead, what I have to deal with is an alliance that thinks its entitled to terms for kicking us while we're down, that thinks its entitled to apologies when it was in control of the situation the entire time, that thinks that they get to keep CoJ down because they can. I survived NPO by keeping the fire burning, ODN survived NPO by getting cozy and forsaking themselves; now ODN can't understand why CoJ won't just do the same. They think we're insane, I think they're insane.[/quote] The ODN you feel sorry for doesn't exist anymore. "No more mister nice guy." The funny part is that they think that they are something better. In some ways they correct...in others quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckz3 Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304299065' post='2703580'] ::amused:: *coj* has been given 'many chances' by us. I dont know what Schatt is telling *his* members. But you've been offered terms... terms that have been on the table for some time now. You've chosen not to accept them as is your right. But don't come crying to me when you don't. I sppose if you surrendered Schatt would lose a chance to be the center of attention. Honestly, i've negotiated peace with a large number of alliances of all shapes and sizes. CoJ is the first one i've dealt with where you can't have a simple conversation without their leaders trying to drag you into bizzaro world. In any event if you want peace you know what to do. If you dont, you are welcome to keep spamming TWIN threads every week and hope that changes our mind. [/quote] Os, I have read every Set of logs. Schatt has not lied to us. I have also gone through many pages of the screenshots of your forums. I would say if anyone has lied it was you Os. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted May 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304300164' post='2703595'] You don't like that the GA of ODN decides your terms? That's what you get when you war with a democracy. [/quote] You damned fool that is the entire problem [size="5"]YOU DECLARED WAR [i][b]ON US[/b][/i][/size] I don't know what kind of alliance let's a guy that doesn't understand these simple precepts into its highest office. Edited May 2, 2011 by Schattenmann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twizzler Posted May 2, 2011 Report Share Posted May 2, 2011 [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304300792' post='2703609'] You damned fool that is the entire problem [size="5"]YOU DECLARED WAR [i][b]ON US[/b][/i][/size] [/quote] You lost. I've never known losers that dictate their own terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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