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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304283538' post='2703351']
I don't understand how spying during war equals CB for later. Are you people seriously considering that?
[/quote]

Remember what Athens tried to pull on TPF? I still do.

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[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1304284504' post='2703364']
You're my sponsored candidate for whatever position you can get in CoJ.
[/quote]

You hear that, Yawoo? I'm coming for you >:[

Edited by Sargun
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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1304283914' post='2703357']
I'm pleased to be included this time.

/edit



Read the post again, it's directly adressed to the spy (Operative Midnight) ;)

That should indicate the seriousness of said post (or at least the redeclare part).
[/quote]

Yeah I saw that. Except I don't think you were the only one supporting that. And the rest of you are supporting eternal war from the looks of it. My point is that you guys are throwing around some pretty stupid ideas. And if you're actually being serious about them, then you should be ashamed of yourselves.

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[quote]
<Schattenmann> JW, let's be real. ForSparta and Pingu were the only GA asking for an apology[/quote]

This is a total lie. I am a supporter, as well as the people who wrote the below (they are all different people):


EDIT: was kindly asked to remove these.

Edited by NOMNOMNOM
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304285171' post='2703375']
Yeah I saw that. Except I don't think you were the only one supporting that. And the rest of you are supporting eternal war from the looks of it. My point is that you guys are throwing around some pretty stupid ideas. And if you're actually being serious about them, then you should be ashamed of yourselves.
[/quote]

Lets see: We know that we're being spied on, we're posting stupid ideas, and we're posting them in public areas.

Take a guess ;)

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::eye roll::. I ussualy try to avoid posting in these sort of threads, but what the hey.

Let me clear some stuff up for the people radiating such towering moral outrage.


1) As I am sure RV (despite his attacks) can already guess... we obviously have no plan to re-declare on CoJ after peace is signed. And one random person in a several hundred post long public thread half jokingly saying we should does not indicate any sort of ODN plan or strategy.

2) You have not seen anyone making a particularly big deal of CoJ spying on us while we are at war. We have mostly shrugged our shoulders and moved on. However, what can be overlooked as an unconventional tactic during a time of war (though still a tactic of questionable morality in my book) is less likely to be overlooked once peace *is* signed if it continues.

3) I'm sure the OWF, being the intelligent and well reasoned folk they are, have already realized that Schatt is going through hundreds of posts to cherry pick the handful that will either back his storyline of poor abused CoJ or allow him to paint ODN foolish. This is to be expected, as his goal is to put ODN in a negative light. It also makes the thread more amusing to read. But i'm sure the rest of you are astute enough to realize that fact before actually drawing conclusions from this piece of propaganda.

4) Ohh. Also, while we are clearing up misconceptions and CoJ propaganda. There are a couple of misconceptions that seem to be widespread for some bizarre reason. First off, Schatt supposedly offering to 'surrender' to ODN multiple times before he launched into his recent questionable tactics. What he fails to mention, is that he was trying to *only* surrender to ODN not our allies. He was informed that unless he was willing to secure peace with our allies in MK we would not be leaving the field. When ODN entered this war, we decided we would not leave ANY of our fronts unless our enemies secured peace with our allies as well.

Schatt was very eager to get peace with ODN. He was much less eager to get peace with MK. ODN had no interest of accepting his limited surrender so he could turn his attentions on to our allies. If Schatt (or anyone else) doesn't like that? Well too bad.

Another misconception. That somehow we have not been informing our applicants we are at war. I don't know why or how that rumor started, but all of our applicants have received multiple messages throughout the war letting them know what was going on. Nor have we made any attempt to keep applicants who wish to find new homes due to the war. Just to preemptively clear that up before it comes up again (ive been seeing it a good deal.)


I would be happy to answer any questions or confusion anyone has about our stance. However, I would remind everyone to be wary of buying too fully into CoJ propoganda. Threads like this, as we all know, are amusing and fun. And I do not begrudge Schatt his fun. Most of ODN seems to get a kick out of reading these threads so far. However, perhaps *because* they are meant to amuse, they do not much reflect reality.

In sum, for the long list of questionable actions taken by CoJ during this war (and beleive me it is quite long) we have asked for a simple apology. I consider that a fairly lenient position. No reps are being asked, no one is trying to ground CoJ under our heels. Considering what is actually being asked, this is imo a relatively minor issue being blown up.

And RV (or whoever), can you imagine the storm Schatt would have kicked up if anyone in DH had dared to act as he has done? Can you imagine if say, MK had mass messaged applicant AAs to get them to switch sides, infiltrated spies, threatened protectorates (yes he did do that), attempted to influence elections, pass themselves off as gov of another alliance? I honestly think we would have seen him rending his clothes and pulling clumps of his hair from scalp as he crawled across the OWF ranting about a New Hegemony.

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[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304285618' post='2703381']
I honestly think we would have seen him rending his clothes and pulling clumps of his hair from scalp as he crawled across the OWF ranting about a New Hegemony.
[/quote]

Yes, but he's already doing this now, so what would be different?

Edited by SADeki
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[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1304286301' post='2703388']
Now [i]that [/i]I would pay to see. 50 tech to whoever can make a legit IRON-ODN defense treaty happen.
[/quote]
No thanks :P

Also cheers for the kind words Schatt :awesome:


All in all I must say this little spy project you have going on isn't getting that exciting results. I guess us folks at ODN just aren't the kind of material you need for more silly This week in thingy.

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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304283538' post='2703351']
I don't understand how spying during war equals CB for later. Are you people seriously considering that?
[/quote]
Its C&G people. They once attacked TPF months after peace was achieved for [b]considering [/b]spying by proxy during the previous war. These people have a track record of the double DoW for wartime conduct or thinking about doing something during wartime.

I approve of spying on ODN and give CoJ my blessing to continue spying on ODN. Oops is condoning spying a DoW?

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[quote]we are loyal friends with a good community who are not interested in torturing our enemies or anything other than honorable wars.[/quote]

the first one made me laugh. Im pretty sure there are a few alliances who disagree. the second point also made me laugh. (it relates to the first point)

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304285618' post='2703381']
And RV (or whoever), can you imagine the storm Schatt would have kicked up if anyone in DH had dared to act as he has done? Can you imagine if say, MK had mass messaged applicant AAs to get them to switch sides, infiltrated spies, threatened protectorates (yes he did do that), attempted to influence elections, pass themselves off as gov of another alliance? I honestly think we would have seen him rending his clothes and pulling clumps of his hair from scalp as he crawled across the OWF ranting about a New Hegemony.
[/quote]

havent seen any of the sort you describe in the post above other then saying to the TFE that tech trading during war can be seen as an agressive act (and it certainly is a valid CB)

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1304286050' post='2703385']
This is boring, do this week in GOONS already.
[/quote]

Agreed


[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1304286301' post='2703388']
Now [i]that [/i]I would pay to see. 50 tech to whoever can make a legit IRON-ODN defense treaty happen.
[/quote]

As an Ex IRON member I doubt this wil ever happen.

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:lol1: [quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304285618' post='2703381']
[color="#FF0000"]1.[/color]Also, while we are clearing up misconceptions and CoJ propaganda. There are a couple of misconceptions that seem to be widespread for some bizarre reason. First off, Schatt supposedly offering to 'surrender' to ODN multiple times before he launched into his recent questionable tactics. What he fails to mention, is that he was trying to *only* surrender to ODN not our allies. He was informed that unless he was willing to secure peace with our allies in MK we would not be leaving the field. When ODN entered this war, we decided we would not leave ANY of our fronts unless our enemies secured peace with our allies as well.

Schatt was very eager to get peace with ODN. He was much less eager to get peace with MK. ODN had no interest of accepting his limited surrender so he could turn his attentions on to our allies. If Schatt (or anyone else) doesn't like that? Well too bad.

[color="#FF0000"]2.[/color]Another misconception. That somehow we have not been informing our applicants we are at war. I don't know why or how that rumor started, but all of our applicants have received multiple messages throughout the war letting them know what was going on. Nor have we made any attempt to keep applicants who wish to find new homes due to the war. Just to preemptively clear that up before it comes up again (ive been seeing it a good deal.)

[color="#FF0000"]3.[/color]In sum, for the long list of questionable actions taken by CoJ during this war (and believe me it is quite long) we have asked for a simple apology. I consider that a fairly lenient position. No reps are being asked, no one is trying to ground CoJ under our heels. Considering what is actually being asked, this is imo a relatively minor issue being blown up.
[/quote]

(^I added some numbers to your text to clarify what I am replying to)

1. Not leaving your allies on the battlefield is fine and quite admirable, but using that as an argument against CoJ makes me laugh, I am sure MK & fiends are just shaking in their boots at the thought of CoJ not being held down by ODN any longer. :D

2. Of course your applicants got messages. Your probably sent some yourself, then Schatt sent some, then you probably sent some more in response to him sending some. At this point they are probably drowning in them. :lol1:

3. Oh, I like this third point a LOT! You originally wanted an apology for CoJ treating your applicants so "heinously"; that didn't seem to fly so well, so now you are trying a sideslip with a nice vauge & all encompassing rationale without any specifics attached. This is such a neat maneuver it just might work. B-) Nice job!
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[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1304288245' post='2703404']

3. Oh, I like this third point a LOT! You originally wanted an apology for CoJ treating your applicants so "heinously"; that didn't seem to fly so well, so now you are trying a sideslip with a nice vauge & all encompassing rationale without any specifics attached. This is such a neat maneuver it just might work. B-) Nice job!
[/quote]

Uh. What you see here is an ignorant person. It's like looking through a window, then trying to talk about the house. There are few people who wanted only an apology for their treatment of our applicants-- the majority of our GA was looking for is an apology for everything.

Edited by NOMNOMNOM
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[quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1304288245' post='2703404']
:lol1:

(^I added some numbers to your text to clarify what I am replying to)

1. Not leaving your allies on the battlefield is fine and quite admirable, but using that as an argument against CoJ makes me laugh, I am sure MK & fiends are just shaking in their boots at the thought of CoJ not being held down by ODN any longer. :D

2. Of course your applicants got messages. Your probably sent some yourself, then Schatt sent some, then you probably sent some more in response to him sending some. At this point they are probably drowning in them. :lol1:

3. Oh, I like this third point a LOT! You originally wanted an apology for CoJ treating your applicants so "heinously"; that didn't seem to fly so well, so now you are trying a sideslip with a nice vauge & all encompassing rationale without any specifics attached. This is such a neat maneuver it just might work. B-) Nice job!
[/quote]

1) It is simply a matter of principle. Is CoJ a military threat? Not really. Does that mean we should make peace with and leave them to fight our allies? Uhh no. If you feel otherwise, then I suppose you and I just have radically different interpretations of how you treat your friends.

2) I'm sure they did get plenty of messages yes. My point exactly.

3) No one is trying to sidestep. As you will see if CoJ agrees to our terms. We say point blank what we are asking them to apologize for. Rather, the list of stupid things CoJ has done has simply gotten quite long so I don't repeat the entire list every single time i mention it. Also in the very post you are quoting i state *specifically* that our issues are with them threatening our protectorate, misleading our applicants, and infiltrating spies into ODN. In fact I said it about two lines after you stopped quoting. It was a long post though, so I guess you lost interest before the end.

You can accuse us of many things. Hiding what our issues are with CoJ... or backing down on said issues... is not one of them.

Edited by OsRavan
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1304283538' post='2703351']
I don't understand how spying during war equals CB for later. Are you people seriously considering that?
[/quote]
It worked for Athens. Obviously this is the new standard that C&G wants to impose.

[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1304285561' post='2703380']
Lets see: We know that we're being spied on, we're posting stupid ideas, and we're posting them in public areas.

Take a guess ;)
[/quote]
Yeah, nobody believed that when TPF used it as a defense either.

However the democracy stuff is a bit more interesting, and I note that ODN posters have avoided discussing that.

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[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1304285618' post='2703381']

3) [b]I'm sure the OWF, being the intelligent and well reasoned folk [/b]they are, have already realized that Schatt is going through hundreds of posts to cherry pick the handful that will either back his storyline of poor abused CoJ or allow him to paint ODN foolish. This is to be expected, as his goal is to put ODN in a negative light. It also makes the thread more amusing to read. But i'm sure the rest of you are astute enough to realize that fact before actually drawing conclusions from this piece of propaganda.
[/quote]



[quote name='NOMNOMNOM' timestamp='1304288417' post='2703407']
Uh. [b]What you see here is an ignorant retard[/b]. It's like looking through a window, then trying to talk about the house. There are few people who wanted only an apology for their treatment of our applicants-- the majority of our GA was looking for is an apology for everything.
[/quote]

Ah, I get it. If we listen to him we are stupid. If we ignore him because you say its stupid to believe him then we are smart. Its a killer argument and its won me over.

Edited by Alterego
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[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304280429' post='2703320']
OsRavan is already hard at work on that "orange compatriots" thing; ODN diplomats have arrived at TOP and initiated the question-and-answer period that proceeds most TOP treaties. [b]ODN and TOP will make a perfect couple[/b], with MK chaperoning all dates, of course. RnR, I hope you like entanglements. No word yet on Os's plan to bring IRON into the fold.
[/quote]

You ****ing ******. I just threw up because of that.

Good read though. Very interesting.

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