[GM Poll] Tech Scale Reform

[Centurius]

As raised in this subforum and with a call for a different tech scale in the past I'd like to ask all members of CNRP to issue their vote. Any votes made by people not actively involved in cnrp are as always excluded.

The poll will remain open for 72-96 hours depending on the amount of feedback and how close the results are to each other.

Proposal 1:
[quote]
I propose the following as the updated version of the tech scale.


Third World Nation (0~49.99 tech) (~1970)
Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have Vietnam War technology*, and any tech you receive from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained without help. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now IRL. You may design items appropriate to the period.


Developing Nation (50~1499.99 tech) (1970~1980)

Having reached a critical point, you can now start developing relatively advanced weapons. Your tanks are in their second generation, which jet fighters are third generation.


Modern Nation (1500~2999.99 tech) (1980~1995)

Your technology has made it into the information age, and you can now start building precision weapons. Having enough firepower to obtain air superiority over developing nations are now within your hands


First World Nation (3000~4999.99 tech) (1995~Current)

Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists*. You may design items appropriate to the period.


Future Nation (5000+ tech) (Current~15 years from current)

Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything that is believed to be capable of being developed within 15 years. You're still limited to IG levels of soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies.




Basically, the reason for this is that allowing future tech to be developed starting from 1500 tech seems outdated in the current world, where most countries have more than 1500 tech. Therefore I believe that by following the above scale, we can cut down on the number of nations firing away with railguns or attempting to develop laser guns and the like.

The rest of the tech rules, such as Technological Efficiency and Technological Trade, will be discussed separately if there seems to be any oppositions to them.
[/quote]

Proposal 2:

[quote]
Third World Nation (0-499 tech)
Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have cold war technology*, and any tech you recieve from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained without help. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now IRL. You may design items appropriate to the period.

Modern Nation (500-1499 tech)
Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists*. You may design items appropriate to the period.

First World Nation (1500+ tech)
Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything your heart can imagine*. You're still limited to IG levels of soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies

*{To a technological limit of the year 2020, of course, within the rules of what can and cannot exist in CNRP}[/quote]

Edited April 22, 2011 by Centurius

[Lynneth]

#1.
Also, the * of proposal 2 isn't updated yet - walkers and some laser weapons are allowed.

[Centurius]

Fixed

[AironthFlamewing]

Proposal 2, proposal 1 isnt fair to nations IG like mine

[Centurius]

One can argue real life isn't exactly fair either. Adding this gradual scale will add to realism, after all not everyone in the world is using F-22s, there simply always will be more advanced countries and less advanced ones. It is also possible to be quite effective as a less advanced nation if you just know how to write it out.

[Zoot Zoot]

Voted option 2

[Centurius]

And for the record, we can see what people voted.

[Executive Minister]

Isn't this just for votes and no discussion?

I say 1 btw... I'm curious to see if Kankou's Idea will float. At least there isn't a WWI tech bracket like in her original idea.

[TheShammySocialist]

Proposal Two.

I have both IG reasons for that, and also I have an affinity with "KiSS". I enjoy keeping it simple, feel that by keeping the current tech levels, people actually have to roleplay quality stuff out to gain an advantage, instead of "lol, i can haz bettur weaponz den u, u di nao".

Just my two cents and feelings on this matter.

Edit: I will agree with EM on that, the first proposed techscale was [i]wayyyy[/i] too restrictive.

Edited April 22, 2011 by TheShammySocialist

[Sir Keshav IV]

Proposal 1

[Triyun]

I vote for the current status quo for now. But I do not like it much either. My preference for tech reform is two fold.

First for the little guys is:

1) Abolish TE, this does the most to reduce loltech right away. Instead it will encourage more posting of both technology development and tactics on the battlefield. This should be accompanied of course by civil discussions if people think others are stepping over the line. Tech sharing should be allowed at reasonable levels, bigger powers could sell you a limited number of their weapons and upgrade existing frames for Cold War era weapons (for example: I could upgrade a Legion Mig-29 to have AESA radar). Common sense and a vigorous debate about what lines to be drawn about tech sharing are to be had, but they will make for help to smaller nations.

Next take either one of two steps for larger players:

Create a new tier for 3k Tech + nations in which the year is set +15, I believe the current system for 1500 instead of 2020 should be +10, so this year it would be 2021. This offers continued returns on future tech and a modest step up for countries who are well over the 1500 tech level.

OR

The second would be a return to the old system with the logarithm calculation. As I recall (and its been sometime), tech advantages had a much faster rate of diminishing returns this way, while still recognizing some advantage for bigger powers.

I think this way is the best to help out everyone. Its realistic that a lot of countries don't have very much capability. And people like Chernrussia fielding B-2 bombers is insane IRL. However I do not think you can expect to keep newer players lacked the ability to do anything military at all.

[Fizzydog]

lolno, the tech scale is fine. We need less superhuge nations and more balance. This only upsets the balance greatly.

[iKrolm]

Voted 2.

[Kevin Kingswell]

Vorted 1. Prefer it to be that way seems a little more realistic which CN needs.

[Kankou]

The way I see it, this is mainly going to be a batte between the "I wanna keep my current stuff!" and "We need to consider inflation" crowds.



[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1303497700' post='2696815']
I vote for the current status quo for now. But I do not like it much either. My preference for tech reform is two fold.

First for the little guys is:

1) Abolish TE, this does the most to reduce loltech right away. Instead it will encourage more posting of both technology development and tactics on the battlefield. This should be accompanied of course by civil discussions if people think others are stepping over the line. Tech sharing should be allowed at reasonable levels, bigger powers could sell you a limited number of their weapons and upgrade existing frames for Cold War era weapons (for example: I could upgrade a Legion Mig-29 to have AESA radar). Common sense and a vigorous debate about what lines to be drawn about tech sharing are to be had, but they will make for help to smaller nations.[/quote]

I don't even think TE is of much restriction. In fact, I actually think TE gives the lower players an advantage, since we aren't doing a linear scale.



[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1303497700' post='2696815']
Next take either one of two steps for larger players:

Create a new tier for 3k Tech + nations in which the year is set +15, I believe the current system for 1500 instead of 2020 should be +10, so this year it would be 2021. This offers continued returns on future tech and a modest step up for countries who are well over the 1500 tech level. [/quote]

That goes directly against why I proposed the change: I'm counting for inflation, where there were quite a few 3000+ nations until the insane war blews up thngs.




[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1303497700' post='2696815']The second would be a return to the old system with the logarithm calculation. As I recall (and its been sometime), tech advantages had a much faster rate of diminishing returns this way, while still recognizing some advantage for bigger powers.

I think this way is the best to help out everyone. Its realistic that a lot of countries don't have very much capability. And people like Chernrussia fielding B-2 bombers is insane IRL. However I do not think you can expect to keep newer players lacked the ability to do anything military at all.
[/quote]

Possible, with the 4th and fifth tiers being united into a 3000+ tier. Though, I'm not sure it'll work out in the math allergic environment that is CNRP.

[Aggressivenutmeg]

I like Triyun's idea actually

[Bacharth]

I like Triyun's. I'm all for abolishing TE.

[Vedran]

Option 2.

[TheShammySocialist]

Considering the fact that I can keep my weapons anyways, I could vote either way, but still, knowing that I'd like to keep the current scale, maybe even add another tier...

[Kankou]

Currently 12:11 (taking only CNRPers into account). Seems like we're going for a deadlock.

[Lestari]

I'm for Proposal 2. However, I like Triyun's idea concerning TE. That should be an option :v

[iKrolm]

I disagree on the removal of the Tech Efficiency. I do not know how to design an Nth Generation superstealthy jet fighter-killer. If you do, it'd be awesome however those who still use F22s should not be penalized.

[Aggressivenutmeg]

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1303537486' post='2697524']
I disagree on the removal of the Tech Efficiency. I do not know how to design an Nth Generation superstealthy jet fighter-killer. If you do, it'd be awesome however those who still use F22s should not be penalized.
[/quote]

you could by them off other people

[Owned-You]

Voted for option 1, it won't really change anything for me. But at the same time one of my biggest pet peeves is literally every nation in the "world" contains the most advanced tech feasible. Which obviously doesn't mirror the real world what-so ever and is quite simply unrealistic to the fullest extent possible. There [u]should[/u] be nations struggling to keep up technologically, and with that adjust their rp'ing to court more advanced nations into supplying them with higher-quality weapons, platforms, and systems. It would increase some potential RP'ing avenues for all involved...which is something I support entirely.

[king of cochin]

I choose proposal # 1