This Week in the Network

[darkfox]

Wow this is great. The whining about a private apology. A smear campaign for basically a scolding. Don't you have a moral crusade to go fight instead of what amounts to a small child crying over some wrong doing? I am just sad that TPE didn't enter, we could have been in on these fun talks.

Edit: grammar.

Edited April 20, 2011 by darkfox

[Duncan King]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1303264503' post='2694167']
Wow this is great. The whining about a private apology. A smear campaign for basically a scolding. Don't you have a moral crusade to go fight instead of what amounts to a small child crying over some wrong doing? I am just said that TPE didn't enter, we could have been in on these fun talks.
[/quote]
But what would they be apologizing for? For telling a new alliance that most people who have been here a while already know, namely that aiding an alliance at war could be considered an act of war by that alliance's opponents? I don't really see how CoJ was in the wrong on that part.

You and I both know that if TFE was a protectorate of CoJ and was tech dealing with CoJ while ODN and friends were attacking them that ODN and friends would be quite upset with TFE and would ask them to stop dealing and if they didn't stop, ODN et. al. would probably either attack TFE or demand reparations. The only difference in the situation would be what alliance is doing better in the war. But make no mistake, might doesn't make right, it only raises the amount of crap that you can get away with.

For example, I could probably tech deal quite happily with smaller members of ODN and no one on their side would have an issue with it because I'd be arguably helping ODN get stronger. CoJ wouldn't be happy with me and might ask me to knock it off, but they wouldn't be in a position to do anything about it so I'd get off scott free. However, I personally wouldn't do that because I respect ODN and CoJ and value my own alliance's safety enough to not drag my alliance in to interfere with their war. Many alliances cut off all external aid during war time because they don't want to risk picking a fight with one of the combatants or otherwise getting pulled into the war. I have to think that this is a better strategy to teach ones protectorate than what ODN is doing because although they may be winning this time, in the next war, they may not be and aiding alliances at war could come with negative consequences.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Duncan King

[ty345]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1303250040' post='2693946']
I've been a Senator since January. Do try to keep up
[/quote]
You can't expect me to keep up with all the little people, can you?

[Yates]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1303180835' post='2693068']
When Os approached me to see if I wanted to surrender, I told him I see no need for me to surrender, as I'm doing quite well and a stalemate would be more accurate to describe our war since no matter how many I take down, there are more ODN nations waiting for their turn to fight me next.[/quote]
Yes, you appear to be quite the war hero...

[URL=http://img691.imageshack.us/i/methrage2.png/][IMG]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3607/methrage2.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img19.imageshack.us/i/methrage1.png/][IMG]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7889/methrage1.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img856.imageshack.us/i/kilerc.png/][IMG]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3329/kilerc.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img251.imageshack.us/i/insula.png/][IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8761/insula.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img263.imageshack.us/i/12thman.png/][IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1776/12thman.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

It is my hope to be fighting 19 day old nations when I reach your age as well.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='ty345' timestamp='1303265509' post='2694181']
You can't expect me to keep up with all the little people, can you?
[/quote]
I'll have you know, I am very important! Didn't you read the OP?!

[Style #386]

[quote name='Keve69' timestamp='1303195450' post='2693410']
Well, I for one liked TWiP and similarly I also like TWiN.

Also love the: "your not our side so this is terrible, I came and yawned, whats this supposed to prove, your slipping, etc." - the fact that ODN sent their entire OWF-squad to tell you how much you have slipped at writing this kind of stuff might very well indicate that you haven't
[/quote]
The "ODN Troll Squad" emerges.

Actually, our "entire OWF-squad" bears an eerie resemblance to our "happened-to-be-on-IRC-at-the-time-+-Pingu-squad", but I'm sure that this is just a zany coincidence.

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1303204238' post='2693474']
To be fair to Schatt, he does still think of me as ODN.
[/quote]
Get out Potato. You're bad news.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Style #386

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='Yates' timestamp='1303267863' post='2694209']
It is my hope to be fighting 19 day old nations when I reach your age as well.
[/quote]
It was guys who declared war on me and you haven't mentioned any the larger ones who have had declare on me as well. Just yesterday for example I was declared on by one double my size, more spies, over 1k tech, MP+SDI, as well as other wonders. Its not my fault you guys decided to declare a war you can't win, you saw that my nation had already been reduced to the size its at after already being in many wars, several of them nuclear wars, which is what brought me down to the size I'm at. So you thought you would have easy fight finishing me off since I had already been nuked down to this size, to bad you didn't take into consideration that sending 19 day old nations at me won't win you the war.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Methrage

[darkfox]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1303265397' post='2694179']
*snip*
[/quote]

I've never had a problem with tech deals during war. This isn't "hey take this 50 tech so you can beat up that alliance who already doesn't stand a chance against you". As long as ODN paid for the tech what's the problem? Why should growth stop during wars?

All I see is CoJ being rude to a protectorate who mind you is composed of nations brand new to this world, and then complaining about a private apology. Maybe ODN should have demanded tech and money.

Darn you ODN how dare you be so immoral.

[Pingu]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1303272764' post='2694271']
Darn you ODN how dare you be so immoral.
[/quote]

Agent Lunchtime tells me it's because Yawoo took all the morality with him when he left.

Arsenal, I have never been on IRC and you know it. I am here due to my silliness senses tingling.

[Dagrr]

I'm going to steal a line from Dajobo...

Your efforts could be spent in better places besides ODN Schatt. I will await VE declaring war on me.

[Denial]

The introduction post was actually quite good. Unfortunately, it went downhill from there. Not all of the TWiP editions were fantastic either, but at least they, well, had some sort of point.

[Duckz3]

[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1303263998' post='2694163']
I imagine you don't even have to pay for it. They just give it to you.
[/quote]
Of course, They really dont care who aids who

Edited April 20, 2011 by Duckz3

[Style #386]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1303273690' post='2694280']
Agent Lunchtime tells me it's because Yawoo took all the morality with him when he left.

Arsenal, I have never been on IRC and you know it. I am here due to my silliness senses tingling.
[/quote]
I actually intended to add a "+ Pingu", but it appears that I missed it. I'll go fix it up.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1303232435' post='2693669']
No, no! Stay away! I'm warning you! *brandishes a banana*
[/quote]
Even a banana cannot stop the wrath of the masses!. And when the purge begins you will be first in line to face the firing squad, ahead of Proximus

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1303278143' post='2694413']
Even a banana cannot stop the wrath of the masses!. And when the purge begins you will be first in line to face the firing squad, ahead of Proximus
[/quote]
But seriously, Cataduanes for Senate XXIEIONGF

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='darkfox' timestamp='1303272764' post='2694271']
I've never had a problem with tech deals during war. This isn't "hey take this 50 tech so you can beat up that alliance who already doesn't stand a chance against you". As long as ODN paid for the tech what's the problem? Why should growth stop during wars? [/quote]
It's ok, you probably are too new to understand how a tech deal works. Since tech deals benefit both parties, you are providing a benefit to someone at war. It is in the interest of the people fighting the tech recipients to put a stop to those deals - either with appeals to the tradition of pausing tech deals for war or through an outright threat (and even a request to make it right by providing equal aid to the warring party). You got the former from CoJ, so I don't see how you are the wronged party.

[quote]All I see is CoJ being rude to a protectorate who mind you is composed of nations brand new to this world, and then complaining about a private apology.
[/quote]
No, rude would be pointing out that you're (at best) naive and (at worst) retarded. You should probably grow a thicker skin.

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1303278143' post='2694413']
Even a banana cannot stop the wrath of the masses!. And when the purge begins you will be first in line to face the firing squad, ahead of Proximus
[/quote]
Ahead of Prox? Ouch, that hurts, Cata.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1303279451' post='2694434']
But seriously, Cataduanes for Senate XXIEIONGF
[/quote]
hehe maybe one of these days....

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1303314952' post='2694663']
Ahead of Prox? Ouch, that hurts, Cata.
[/quote]

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1303279451' post='2694434']
But seriously, Cataduanes for Senate XXIEIONGF
[/quote]
hehe maybe one of these days....

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1303314952' post='2694663']
Ahead of Prox? Ouch, that hurts, Cata.
[/quote]

[Yates]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1303271813' post='2694260']
It was guys who declared war on me and you haven't mentioned any the larger ones who have had declare on me as well.

...

So you thought you would have easy fight finishing me off since I had already been nuked down to this size, to bad you didn't take into consideration that sending 19 day old nations at me won't win you the war.[/quote]
See, it's statements like these that give me pause and question the veracity of your statements. [i]Clearly[/i] illustrated in the screen caps above are the three nations [b]you declared on[/b] - inclusive of the 19 day old nation.

Your willingness to go to ZI for your cause is honorable. I just don't understand why you feel the need to sully that honor with public half-truths in some poorly conceived attempt to... what? Somehow spin the difficulty brand new nations face completing the ZI process on established nations that have been crushed to rubble into a victory over the ODN?

Let's look at the facts:

Since 2/20 you have declared 13 times on 0 nuclear capable nations and 0 nations with > NS.
Since 2/20 you have been declared on 13 times by [b]1[/b] nuclear capable nation and [b]1[/b] nation with > NS - that nation being Vitsen's on 4/18.
[URL=http://img215.imageshack.us/i/methragewars.png][IMG]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2965/methragewars.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

To me this illustrates a few points:
1. You avoid anything that might closely resemble a fair fight. This is understandable but flies in the face of your spurious attempt at bravado.
2. Our smaller nations are doing a commendable job of keeping your slots filled and your nation out of Peace Mode while still causing damage.
3. You have to give these smaller nations a lot of credit; they are willing to take on a nuclear capable nation with all those wonders and shrug off their disadvantage in service to our Network.

In regards to your allegation that you have somehow fought us to a "stalemate?" On 3/29 your NS was 6,716. Then from 4/1-4/4 3 Non-Nuclear ODN Nations declared on you and reduced you to 2,123 by 4/9. You received an infusion of cash and re-bought to get up to 6,166 on 4/18. Then Vitsen declared that night and you have quickly fallen to 3,648 as of this morning. Keeping your nation below 10k NS means we will have an easy time sending our smaller nations enough aid to rebuild in a single aid package. In fact, I made enough in abandoned equipment from a single GA last night to cover the costs of rebuilding one of those nations.
[URL=http://img860.imageshack.us/i/methragechart.png/][IMG]http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/8977/methragechart.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[url="http://img543.imageshack.us/f/methrage3.png/"][size="1"]In case the genesis of this chart is in doubt.[/size][/url]

The humor of this situation is that you could not afford this war [$1.25M/10 days on wonder bill alone] without aid and none of your aid partners have been declared upon. The weightiest claim made by Schatt was that we are big bullies that use tech dealing with our enemies as a reason to declare yet you see how fervidly we pursue that policy. Perhaps we should make some exceptions and see how long it takes you to get to ZI?

In summary, our small nations are using your nation as a sort of field training/live fire exercise. You can choose to take the stance that this somehow makes you a martyr and try to keep spinning your efforts in this light. The reality is, however, that any seasoned player can see the truth of this situation is that you have been knocked down and we are simply not allowing you to get back up. You think the fact that you aren't dead and buried somehow puts you in a stalemate position? I think you need to get back up on your feet before you can make such claims. But that's just my perspective.

In the mean time, thanks for the training opportunity. The lessons and possibly even mistakes made by our young nations now will make them that much better when we need them to face a real opponent in the future. They will also learn invaluable lessons about how rebuilding works in our Network and form bonds of camaraderie that you simply can't fabricate in other training situations.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Yates

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Yates' timestamp='1303319116' post='2694703']
See, it's statements like these that give me pause and question the veracity of your statements. [i]Clearly[/i] illustrated in the screen caps above are the three nations [b]you declared on[/b] - inclusive of the 19 day old nation.

Your willingness to go to ZI for your cause is honorable. I just don't understand why you feel the need to sully that honor with public half-truths in some poorly conceived attempt to... what? Somehow spin the difficulty brand new nations face completing the ZI process on established nations that have been crushed to rubble into a victory over the ODN?

Let's look at the facts:

Since 2/20 you have declared 13 times on 0 nuclear capable nations and 0 nations with > NS.
Since 2/20 you have been declared on 13 times by [b]1[/b] nuclear capable nation and [b]1[/b] nation with > NS - that nation being Vitsen's on 4/18.
[URL=http://img215.imageshack.us/i/methragewars.png/][IMG]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2965/methragewars.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

To me this illustrates a few points:
1. You avoid anything that might closely resemble a fair fight. This is understandable but flies in the face of your spurious attempt at bravado.
2. Our smaller nations are doing a commendable job of keeping your slots filled and your nation out of Peace Mode while still causing damage.
3. You have to give these smaller nations a lot of credit; they are willing to take on a nuclear capable nation with all those wonders and shrug off their disadvantage in service to our Network.

In regards to your allegation that you have somehow fought us to a "stalemate?" On 3/29 your NS was 6,716. Then from 4/1-4/4 3 Non-Nuclear ODN Nations declared on you and reduced you to 2,123 by 4/9. You received an infusion of cash and re-bought to get up to 6,166 on 4/18. Then Vitsen declared that night and you have quickly fallen to 3,648 as of this morning. Keeping your nation below 10k NS means we will have an easy time sending our smaller nations enough aid to rebuild in a single aid package. In fact, I made enough in abandoned equipment from a single GA last night to cover the costs of rebuilding one of those nations.
[img]http://img860.imageshack.us/f/methragechart.png[/img]
[url="http://img543.imageshack.us/f/methrage3.png/"][size="1"]In case the genesis of this chart is in doubt.[/size][/url]

The humor of this situation is that you could not afford this war [$1.25M/10 days on wonder bill alone] without aid and none of your aid partners have been declared upon. The weightiest claim made by Schatt was that we are big bullies that use tech dealing with our enemies as a reason to declare yet you see how fervidly we pursue that policy. Perhaps we should make some exceptions and see how long it takes you to get to ZI?

In summary, our small nations are using your nation as a sort of field training/live fire exercise. You can choose to take the stance that this somehow makes you a martyr and try to keep spinning your efforts in this light. The reality is, however, that any seasoned player can see the truth of this situation is that you have been knocked down and we are simply not allowing you to get back up. You think the fact that you aren't dead and buried somehow puts you in a stalemate position? I think you need to get back up on your feet before you can make such claims. But that's just my perspective.

In the mean time, thanks for the training opportunity. The lessons and possibly even mistakes made by our young nations now will make them that much better when we need them to face a real opponent in the future. They will also learn invaluable lessons about how rebuilding works in our Network and form bonds of camaraderie that you simply can't fabricate in other training situations.
[/quote]


What a well put post, I enjoyed reading that.

[The Trail]

[quote name='Yates' timestamp='1303267863' post='2694209']
Yes, you appear to be quite the war hero...

[URL=http://img691.imageshack.us/i/methrage2.png/][IMG]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3607/methrage2.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img19.imageshack.us/i/methrage1.png/][IMG]http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7889/methrage1.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img856.imageshack.us/i/kilerc.png/][IMG]http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/3329/kilerc.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img251.imageshack.us/i/insula.png/][IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8761/insula.th.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img263.imageshack.us/i/12thman.png/][IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1776/12thman.th.png[/IMG][/URL]

It is my hope to be fighting 19 day old nations when I reach your age as well.
[/quote]

You know ODN did declare war on him not the otherway around right?

[mattski133]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1303321333' post='2694726']
What a well put post, I enjoyed reading that.
[/quote]

that WAS really nice.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' timestamp='1303302549' post='2694542']
It's ok, you probably are too new to understand how a tech deal works. Since tech deals benefit both parties, you are providing a benefit to someone at war. It is in the interest of the people fighting the tech recipients to put a stop to those deals - either with appeals to the tradition of pausing tech deals for war or through an outright threat (and even a request to make it right by providing equal aid to the warring party). You got the former from CoJ, so I don't see how you are the wronged party.
[/quote]

On the other hand TFE need that money to grow. I'm sure TFE could easily find another alliance to do tech deals with but what if they don't want to? What if they actually like ODN and would prefer to do business with them? I'm pretty sure if CoJ or any other alliance in that coalition started doing tech deals there wouldn't be any outrage coming from our side about it (probably because that would mean they would have to be in war mode )

Also, how would you respond if an alliance which you'd not had any contact with before approached you and asked you to stop your means of obtaining cash from your ally because it's hindering their war efforts and because of "tradition"?

Edited April 20, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Yates' timestamp='1303319116' post='2694703']
1. You avoid anything that might closely resemble a fair fight. This is understandable but flies in the face of your spurious attempt at bravado.
[/quote]
You are in a sanctioned alliance that declared on a 2-nation alliance, and you are criticizing them for not fighting fair?

It is good tactics to declare against smaller nations. You expect counters to come from larger nations, unless you are Hime Themis.