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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303590054' post='2697939']
"dissident members"? So that's what someone sent over in the middle of a war to spy is called these days.
I remember when they used to be called... spies.

And we'll make sure to supply many more (orange) "juicy stories", afterall we aim to please.
[/quote]If you informed prospective members that they would be entering a conflict by joining ODN, then maybe you wouldn't have this problem ;)

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303590429' post='2697948']
If you informed prospective members that they would be entering a conflict by joining ODN, then maybe you wouldn't have this problem ;)
[/quote]

How is that in any way connected to you spying?

But just to make you happy: Your spy was informed of the war when he joined, yet he joined anyway.
A spy that infiltrates an alliance during war to gather intel and then doesn't join because the alliance is at war wouldn't have made sense anyway. Try again.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303583678' post='2697872']
Schattenmann is nothing more than a simple journalist. If dissident members of the Network choose to give him a juicy story, can you really expect that he won't write about it?
[/quote]
[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303590429' post='2697948']
If you informed prospective members that they would be entering a conflict by joining ODN, then maybe you wouldn't have this problem ;)
[/quote]

Neither Schatt's propensity to write nor ODN's internal workings have much to do with the issue that was brought up, nor do either excuse it.

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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303590054' post='2697939']
"dissident members"? So that's what someone sent over in the middle of a war to spy is called these days.
I remember when they used to be called... spies.

And we'll make sure to supply many more (orange) "juicy stories", afterall we aim to please.
[/quote]
One alliances' dissident member is another alliances' spy. It has pretty much always been that way.

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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303590054' post='2697939']
"dissident members"? So that's what someone sent over in the middle of a war to spy is called these days.
I remember when they used to be called... spies.

And we'll make sure to supply many more (orange) "juicy stories", afterall we aim to please.
[/quote]
We've actually sent no one over to any other alliances if for no other reason (though other reasons do exist) we simply lack the pool of members with which to seek out recruits from. Sometimes people just act on their own and when they present an opportunity to another party they seize it.

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[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1303592870' post='2697983']
One alliances' dissident member is another alliances' spy. It has pretty much always been that way.
[/quote]

No, that's not necessarily true.

A dissident member/spy is someone who had been in the alliance as a normal member and then leaks something he doesn't like. A regular spy is someone sent for the sole purpose of spying.
Their spy joined during the war, he posted that he wants an apology from CoJ and at the same time sent his spied intel to CoJ.
That's just old fashioned spying, nothing else.

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303585825' post='2697899']
I just discovered this. I secretly enjoyed TWiP (you !@#$%^&!!) and this was a fun read as well.

And for those of you who loved Schatt back then and are all butthurt now, get over it. What goes around comes around. It's the cycle of Planet Bob and if you think you are immune, then you deserve this little bite in the butt.

Keep writing Schatt!

[size="1"]Edited by Rachel, therapist[/size]
[/quote]

I like the idea, I just think he could have done a better subject.

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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303595090' post='2697997']
No, that's not necessarily true.

A dissident member/spy is someone who had been in the alliance as a normal member and then leaks something he doesn't like. A regular spy is someone sent for the sole purpose of spying.
Their spy joined during the war, he posted that he wants an apology from CoJ and at the same time sent his spied intel to CoJ.
That's just old fashioned spying, nothing else.
[/quote]
Oh is that what happened? :ehm:

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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303595090' post='2697997']
No, that's not necessarily true.

A dissident member/spy is someone who had been in the alliance as a normal member and then leaks something he doesn't like. A regular spy is someone sent for the sole purpose of spying.
Their spy joined during the war, he posted that he wants an apology from CoJ and at the same time sent his spied intel to CoJ.
That's just old fashioned spying, nothing else.
[/quote]
You must not have been around too long. A lot of alliances attacked for spying have done so based on a CB provided by a "dissident member."

Honestly though, this whole thing is just silly. As much as it pains me to say, I've got to side with Schatt on this one. It doesn't matter how ODN views tech deals during war, if CoJ views it as a war-worthy type of offense then they can act as they see fit. This kind of reminds me of the events leading up to the 6mil war in a few ways.

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[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1303599722' post='2698036']
You must not have been around too long. A lot of alliances attacked for spying have done so based on a CB provided by a "dissident member."
[/quote]

And what does that have to do with the current situation? We're not talking about CBs here. I think you're confusing what this is about.

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[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1303601002' post='2698045']
And what does that have to do with the current situation? We're not talking about CBs here. I think you're confusing what this is about.
[/quote]
It has to do with the fact that you want to pretend Schatt has some sort of vast spy ring, which is just a laughable concept. He's been out of that business for years now, he doesn't have contacts. These clearly are people doing it of their own accord - And who is Schattenmann to discourage it? It's hilarious and makes for a great piece.

What's even better is some of you allude to this "vast spy ring" with the same breath that you call Schatt irrelevant. It almost seems like you'll just say anything to insult and mock your opponents, with no regard for any sense of consistency.

Edited by HeroofTime55
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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303606361' post='2698093']
It has to do with the fact that you want to pretend Schatt has some sort of vast spy ring, which is just a laughable concept. He's been out of that business for years now, he doesn't have contacts. These clearly are people doing it of their own accord - And who is Schattenmann to discourage it? It's hilarious and makes for a great piece.

[b]What's even better is some of you allude to this "vast spy ring" with the same breath that you call Schatt irrelevant. It almost seems like you'll just say anything to insult and mock your opponents, with no regard for any sense of consistency.
[/b][/quote]
Can we blame them? It would seem that Schattenman is chewing them up and spitting them out at an alarming rate.

Their defences, that is. :ehm:

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303606361' post='2698093']
It has to do with the fact that you want to pretend Schatt has some sort of vast spy ring, which is just a laughable concept. He's been out of that business for years now, he doesn't have contacts. These clearly are people doing it of their own accord - And who is Schattenmann to discourage it? It's hilarious and makes for a great piece.

What's even better is some of you allude to this "vast spy ring" with the same breath that you call Schatt irrelevant. It almost seems like you'll just say anything to insult and mock your opponents, with no regard for any sense of consistency.
[/quote]

Please link me to where I said he had a "vast spy ring". Thank you.

In fact as pointed out the spy came during the war. I believe it even was when peace talks were already under way (I'd have to double check that though).
That's a pretty solid indication that he did not have a vast spy ring already in place.

Nice try though HoT, please come again.

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Who said anything about a "vast spy ring" (other than you two)? Sure, keep on ignoring what's actually been said and hone in instead on what you're imagining was.

Am I saying that CoJ sent anyone over to spy on ODN? Who knows; I certainly don't. Does it appear though that CoJ has no intent to cease contact with or cease accepting and publicizing ODN intel from this person? Certainly. That's what's far more troubling for some than the manner in which ODN internally conducts itself (with regards to protectorate nations and applicants).

*typos

Edited by SirWilliam
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[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1303612045' post='2698148']
Who said anything about a "vast spy ring" (other than you two)? Sure, keep on ignoring what's actually been said and hone in instead on what you're imagining was.

Am I saying that CoJ sent anyone over to spy on ODN? Who knows; I certainly don't. Does it appear though that CoJ has no intent to cease contact with or cease accepting and publicizing ODN intel from this person? Certainly. That's what's far more troubling for some than the manner in which ODN internally conducts itself (with regards to protectorate nations and applicants).

*typos
[/quote]
As noted in the OP, CoJ has attempted to surrender 3 times over the course of 40 days. ODN has continually refused, continually changed the terms, and generally made this difficult. OsRavan has made it clear time after time that he thought CoJ was a joke because his declaration on us was a joke. Just as Vox ignored ODN because they were a sideshow, I have largely ignored ODN now because they were a sideshow, but it became clear that ODN wasn't getting the amicable message; it's my hope that they can hear me now. Peace is a simple prospect.

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[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1303607820' post='2698101']
Can we blame them? It would seem that Schattenman is chewing them up and spitting them out at an alarming rate.

Their defences, that is. :ehm:
[/quote]
I know talking about "being in peace mode" is passé, but when an alliance of eighteen has only two members not in peace mode, they can hardly be doing an "alarming" rate of damage. Especially since they started out as an alliance of thirty-two. <_<

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1303613727' post='2698162']
Peace is a simple prospect.
[/quote]
Sounds like you have plenty of time to write this play and get the peace that you so desire.

Edited by Choson
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[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1303588689' post='2697922']
I highly doubt that you secretly enjoyed TWiP. It was one thing of many that brought down your alliance. And if I've learned anything in the 4+ years I've been here, it's that the NPO doesn't have a sense of humor when it comes to alliance security issues.

Please let Schatt do your propaganda, he's at least competent. Sir Paul sucks at it as well as the Vortex guy.

edit: :blink: I mean 4
[/quote]

Just goes to show how little you know about the NPO; you have simply drunk the kool aid about who and what we are. You don't sound like you have much of a sense of humor at all. Alliance security is one thing; enjoying someone's writing and humor is quite another.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303615396' post='2698182']
Just goes to show how little you know about the NPO; you have simply drunk the kool aid about who and what we are. You don't sound like you have much of a sense of humor at all. Alliance security is one thing; enjoying someone's writing and humor is quite another.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]
[/quote]
I admit, I laughed at this.

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303615396' post='2698182']
Just goes to show how little you know about the NPO; you have simply drunk the kool aid about who and what we are. You don't sound like you have much of a sense of humor at all. Alliance security is one thing; enjoying someone's writing and humor is quite another.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]
[/quote]

Oh yes, claiming that you liked Schattenmann's work back in the day (now that it's politically convenient) isn't opportunism at all. I seriously doubt whether you have the slightest respect for Schatt, you just see him as a convenient tool for propaganda. After all, that's what Red Dawn was all about.

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[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1303616236' post='2698190']
Oh yes, claiming that you liked Schattenmann's work back in the day (now that it's politically convenient) isn't opportunism at all. I seriously doubt whether you have the slightest respect for Schatt, you just see him as a convenient tool for propaganda. After all, that's what Red Dawn was all about.
[/quote]

Believe what you will; you choose not to have an open mind. Nor has it occurred to you that you can be an enemy and respect and like them at the same time. Your loss, my friend.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303616669' post='2698196']
Believe what you will; you choose not to have an open mind. Nor has it occurred to you that you can be an enemy and respect and like them at the same time. Your loss, my friend.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]
[/quote]

I had an open mind and I lost it when I found out the way you treat people when you no longer have a use for them.

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[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1303616773' post='2698197']
I had an open mind and I lost it when I found out the way you treat people when you no longer have a use for them.
[/quote]

You're one of the "NPO-will-never-change" (even if we never did what you think we did) folks. I understand now. Carry on; I will disturb you no further.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303617169' post='2698199']
You're one of the "NPO-will-never-change" (even if we never did what you think we did) folks. I understand now. Carry on; I will disturb you no further.
[/quote]
The onus is on you to show that you have changed.

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[quote name='TrotskysRevenge' timestamp='1303617169' post='2698199']
You're one of the "NPO-will-never-change" (even if we never did what you think we did) folks. I understand now. Carry on; I will disturb you no further.

[size="1"]Edited by Steve, nurse[/size]
[/quote]

No, actually, I'm one of the founders of Red Dawn who decided to give NPO another chance and came to really like you and your alliance. When I joined NPO, I found out that you had simply used me, like you're using Schattenmann, and had no respect or liking for me. Thus why the 'you're just closed-minded!' retort doesn't really work here, and why I'm cynical when you claim to respect Schatt. You'll never trust someone who associated so closely with Electron Sponge.

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