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Announcement from The Order of the Paradox


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[quote name='Duncan King' timestamp='1303229055' post='2693620']
I had no idea that the Legion were such good fighters that MK needed to call in TOP to help them with them. Who knew that The Legion was so good and MK was so incompetent?
[/quote]

We were going to be [i]crushed[/i] if those 9 extra wars went undeclared. It couldn't be that MK didn't want them escaping to legion-mode, and didn't have anyone with open offensive slots in range, no sir.

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[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303229392' post='2693623']
For TOP I think it is a case of Stockholm syndrome. For MK, it is a case of fear and respect. They got beat up so much by TOP last time they want assurance TOP will not waylay them again in the near future. Hence, the treaty.

For either, probably a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer. My take anyways.
[/quote]
It took 21 alliances + 1 alliance of multis to take down The Order of the Paradox in what is commonly referred to as the BiPolar War. We paid reps to alittle less than half that number after the war concluded. Seven months after we surrender to those 22 alliance we sign a treaty with 1 of them and somehow we're in "Stockholm Syndrome."

You people really amaze me with your stupidity.

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[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1303180427' post='2693057']
While it may be frustrating, we (the victors) can choose when peace negotiations take place.
[/quote]
Ahhhhh, I think I get it.

[i]It's all NPO's fault that MK is dragging it's feet because MK is just a puppet of the NPO, and thus NPO should have made MK choose to negotiate peace more frequently than once every two weeks.[/i]

Am I close?

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1303184260' post='2693132']
Also no one can beat HoT in a debate. What he does isn't debating. He crams as many hot topic words and phrases into a paragraph as he possibly can without making any real effort at a true point. You thinking otherwise just shows how utterly stupid you are.
[/quote]
[i]OR[/i] I'm right about nearly everything I say, and for whatever reason (Politics, PR, a general state of denial, etc.) certain entities do not want to accept the reality of the situation.

(I am disregarding the supreme irony of condensing these two replies into the same post, so in before someone turns off their sarcasm detector and makes a silly attempt to "burn" me.)

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[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1303223515' post='2693570']
We will always have IRON's back
[/quote]
You mean, except for that time when you fought on the opposite side from them. :rolleyes:

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1303227542' post='2693596']
Are you [i]seriously[/i] this stupid? NpO burned its political capital for sure, but their reasons were twofold: a) they disliked TOP and b) Grub wanted to satisfy his ego and make sure the world knew that NpO carried through on its threats (I'm virtually quoting him here.) They didn't do what they did to make MK happy.
[/quote]
So they honoured a request from MK because they disliked TOP?

MK had nothing to do with it?

Riiiight.

[quote name='HellAngel' timestamp='1303228093' post='2693602']
I dont think we even knew about peace negotiations taking place...
[/quote]
The fact that the Mushroom Kingdom is not bothering to inform its allies that it's been in peace negotiations for weeks now does suggest that it's not taking them very seriously.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1303231853' post='2693658']
It took 21 alliances + 1 alliance of multis to take down The Order of the Paradox in what is commonly referred to as the BiPolar War. We paid reps to alittle less than half that number after the war concluded. Seven months after we surrender to those 22 alliance we sign a treaty with 1 of them and somehow we're in "Stockholm Syndrome."

You people really amaze me with your stupidity.
[/quote]


You are right. It is a treaty of convenience not friendship.

Out of the 22 alliance MK was clearly the one alliance that can guarantee your security while you rebuild.

In MK's case, war was inevitible with NPO. They cannot have a alliance like TOP who they just beat up be out there not knowing what they might do. Answer, sign a treaty with them. It removes a wild card out of the equation.

Edited by Daimos
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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303231996' post='2693661']
Ahhhhh, I think I get it.

[i]It's all NPO's fault that MK is dragging it's feet because MK is just a puppet of the NPO, and thus NPO should have made MK choose to negotiate peace more frequently than once every two weeks.[/i]

Am I close?


[b][i]OR[/i] I'm right about nearly everything I say[/b], and for whatever reason (Politics, PR, a general state of denial, etc.) certain entities do not want to accept the reality of the situation.

(I am disregarding the supreme irony of condensing these two replies into the same post, so in before someone turns off their sarcasm detector and makes a silly attempt to "burn" me.)
[/quote]


Muhahahahahaha, this is worthy of a quote. Well done HoT you have finally made me laugh out loud, thanks.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1303231853' post='2693658']
It took 21 alliances + 1 alliance of multis to take down The Order of the Paradox in what is commonly referred to as the BiPolar War. We paid reps to alittle less than half that number after the war concluded. Seven months after we surrender to those 22 alliance we sign a treaty with 1 of them and somehow we're in "Stockholm Syndrome."

You people really amaze me with your stupidity.
[/quote]
That "one" alliance you signed to happened to receive the majority of your payments and is [i]the[/i] core alliance of the new Hegemony, but why let silly little details like that get in the way of your argument?

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[quote name='+Zeke+' timestamp='1303197574' post='2693438']
Because you say so? What was I thinking here? Clearly I'm wrong on simply because you state otherwise. Why do we even bother with thiese big discussions then? Let's just build you a mountaintop for you to toss the proper words down to us.
[/quote]
Well I don't want to go to the effort to "prove" such a silly thing. I'm just stating your position in terms that show how ridiculous it is.

If you really want to believe that everyone on our "side" (Pandora's Box, C&G, TOP, among others) are effective vassal states to do us and can't do anything unless we tell them to do it, go right ahead. Everyone with a brain knows how ridiculous that is.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1303227518' post='2693595']
Legion is one of the few decent alliances who go with what they feel is right, rather than what they think will benefit them from realpolitik point of view. I didn't mean for my comments to be taken as an attack and don't understand what you're saying exactly. Although when I had been sanctioned off every color except red, Legion was one of the only alliances willing to remove it when they realized I wasn't a nuclear rogue as GOONS had described me to be (despite that making MK and GOONS angry with them), so that's why I don't think Legion deserves this. Don't take my opinions as me attacking TOP though, if that's what you meant with that line. Legion supported me by removing the sanction back when I was almost driven away from trading with every color, which is why I wasn't happy to see 2 alliances I respect fighting each other in a war like this.
[/quote]
And they also infra hug in nearly every war, hiding people in peace mode or bowing out in a week. The few coming out recently in this war are an exception.

This isn't true of everyone on your side. STA and TPF, though I don't always agree with them or like what they say or do, don't hold back when it comes to war and will fight for their allies wholeheartedly even if all their nations are completely crushed.

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[quote]You are right. It is a treaty of convenience than not friendship.[/quote]
How do you, a member of the NPO, know what goes on between members of The Order of the Paradox and the Mushroom Kingdom?

[quote]Out of the 22 alliance MK was clearly the one alliance that can guarantee your security while you rebuild. [/quote]
Or we could have stayed on the sidelines with some of our buddies in Duckroll and watched all this mess upfold. We didn't need anyone for security.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303232286' post='2693666']
That "one" alliance you signed to happened to receive the majority of your payments and is [i]the[/i] core alliance of the new Hegemony, but why let silly little details like that get in the way of your argument?
[/quote]
That "one" alliance was heavily targeted during the war and took far more damage than any of the others. That is why they received more reps than the anyone else. Also, there is no "core alliance" right now and if you wanted to target who is in the center of the current ruling power cluster then it would be the bloc known as Pandora.

Edited by Feanor Noldorin
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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1303231853' post='2693658']
It took 21 alliances + 1 alliance of multis to take down The Order of the Paradox in what is commonly referred to as the BiPolar War. We paid reps to alittle less than half that number after the war concluded. Seven months after we surrender to those 22 alliance we sign a treaty with 1 of them and somehow we're in "Stockholm Syndrome."

You people really amaze me with your stupidity.
[/quote]

I'm amazed that you're amazed.


[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1303232132' post='2693663']
The fact that the Mushroom Kingdom is not bothering to inform its allies that it's been in peace negotiations for weeks now does suggest that it's not taking them very seriously.
[/quote]

One person saying they did not know about peace terms = MK not telling their allies? You can't honestly believe that.


[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303232234' post='2693664']
You are right. It is a treaty of convenience not friendship.
[/quote]

I love all these people that were not there for the months that we built up friendship with MK before signing telling us the real reason for our treaty.

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[quote name='Richard Rahl' timestamp='1303232978' post='2693681']

I love all these people that were not there for the months that we built up friendship with MK before signing telling us the real reason for our treaty.
[/quote]


It is a valid assumption. We will see down the road when the two alliance do not need each other anymore. It is a matter of who is quick enough to stab each other in the back.

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[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1303219476' post='2693540']
Once again Methrage you speak about things that you know nothing about. IRON went thru the last 2 years of paying reps if you can remember back that far if not then I just refreshed your memory. IRON was the only one that kept IRON out of this war. I, myself went over to IRON at the very beginning of this war even before any declariations were made and asked them if they wanted in this or not. They told me no that they have no interest in this war. We in TOP understood and left them alone, unlike their other ally in this war TOOL who threatened to bring in IRON if they were countered. Yes its the reason why TOOL wasn't countered in this war.

Pick which one we are. If we enter a war to help an ally we're meat shields, if we don't enter when an ally ask us for help we're infra huggers and cowards.
[/quote]

Out of respect to us both being allied to IRON, I will keep this short. TOOL never [i]threatened[/i] to bring in IRON and painting us in such a manner when we hold no ill will towards IRON or TOP is disheartening. If you have an issue, bring it to private channels. IRON told us the same thing that they told everyone else - they would not enter this war. TOOL understood that and fully expected them not to enter. I am not sure how IRON could even be "forced" to do something they don't want to do. Whether IRON entered or not was their choice and certainly TOOL was not going to force them to do something or had the power to force them to do something they made clear to us they weren't going to do. I am not going to further along this line of discussion.

Anyways, have fun, TOP and Legion.

Edited by Salmia
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[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1303232132' post='2693663']
The fact that the Mushroom Kingdom is not bothering to inform its allies that it's been in peace negotiations for weeks now does suggest that it's not taking them very seriously.
[/quote]

Couldnt care less actually. I also said "i think", who knows if it didnt come up at some point.

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[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303233574' post='2693687']
It is a valid assumption. We will see down the road when the two alliance do not need each other anymore. It is a matter of who is quick enough to stab each other in the back.
[/quote]

Why is it a "matter of who is quick enough to stab each other in the back"?

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[quote name='Richard Rahl' timestamp='1303232978' post='2693681']
I love all these people that were not there for the months that we built up friendship with MK before signing telling us the real reason for our treaty.
[/quote]
One of the main reasons that everyone "knew about it for months!" was because the forum presence on each other's boards, with dozens of diplomats going both ways, was obvious.

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[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1303234117' post='2693697']
One of the main reasons that everyone "knew about it for months!" was because the forum presence on each other's boards, with dozens of diplomats going both ways, was obvious.
[/quote]


Sure a spike of diplomatic activity can be construed that we like to be friends with you. Question is why now? Why after a devastating war between the two alliance. Can you honestly say that TOP and MK trust each other 100 percent? You can argue the reason for the treaty is because of mistrust. Of not knowing what the other will do next. A treaty like yours buys you time and security.

You cannot really say this is a treaty of friendship. Certainly not at the level as MK treaty with her C&G allies or NPO's treaty with TPF, Invicta and the rest of it's allies.

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[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1303232764' post='2693676']
That "one" alliance was heavily targeted during the war and took far more damage than any of the others. That is why they received more reps than the anyone else. Also, there is no "core alliance" right now and if you wanted to target who is in the center of the current ruling power cluster then it would be the bloc known as Pandora.
[/quote]
Pandora's Box is peripheral to Doomhouse. Very close in the inner circle, mind you, but Doomhouse is the center of power. And the center of Doomhouse, politically, is MK. GOONS is filled with clueless newbies and is focused on growth, Umbrella is filled with tech-fattened nations and is focused on accumulating more tech. MK is the center of politics in DH, and is where all the "big names" hail from.

It is through MK where you find the primary connections, to Duckroll via TOP, to C&G, and other heavy hitters. MK has better external connections than anyone else in PB or DH.

And DH has been running the show in PB since it's inception. As much as VE wanted that role. I view the recent Polar conflict as an attempt to manifest that control, I'm not so delusional to think that MK ordered the strike, though it's not like they discouraged it, it gave MK the ability to finally sink it's teeth into NPO for no reason other than spite, and in the process one-up VE. The Polar war was concluded with haste in order to provide support the Doomhouse conflict.

VE's best external connection is to SF, a bloc that has continued to fracture and pull away from VE.

PC and FOK are rather irrelevant in the DH/PB picture.

So, in summary, DH pulls the strings in PB, and MK pulls the strings in DH. While that doesn't necessarily give MK direct control over PB, it does mean that they are [i]the[/i] core alliance of the New Hegemony.

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[quote name='Richard Rahl' timestamp='1303232978' post='2693681']
I love all these people that were not there for the months that we built up friendship with MK before signing telling us the real reason for our treaty.
[/quote]
Yes, the bound slave eventually grows a sense of attachment for their captor. There's a medical name for it, but I completely forget.

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[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303232234' post='2693664']
You are right. It is a treaty of convenience not friendship.
[/quote]

I wasn't aware that when I put in my vote for the TOP-MK treaty that our memberships hadn't actually grown very close to each other. I just wanted to keep my infra safe.

Thanks for the clarification.

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[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303234923' post='2693708']
Sure a spike of diplomatic activity can be construed that we like to be friends with you. Question is why now? Why after a devastating war between the two alliance. Can you honestly say that TOP and MK trust each other 100 percent? You can argue the reason for the treaty is because of mistrust. Of not knowing what the other will do next. A treaty like yours buys you time and security.

You cannot really say this is a treaty of friendship. Certainly not at the level as MK treaty with her C&G allies or NPO's treaty with TPF, Invicta and the rest of it's allies.
[/quote]
As close as C&G? Probably not, given the history behind C&G. But in terms of everything else we were and are a good match for each other, high activity, competence, alliance build, and general attitude. MK and TOP members in Bipolar had a lot of fun fighting each other, the most skilled opponents either alliance had ever faced. It destroyed a lot of misconceptions both alliances had about the other. The build-up to the treaty in terms of communication and interaction was probably the most for MK that we've had with any ally.

As for buying time and security, not really. Do you remember the drama with GOD cancelling on GOONS over it?

Edited by Azaghul
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[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1303234923' post='2693708']
Sure a spike of diplomatic activity can be construed that we like to be friends with you. Question is why now? Why after a devastating war between the two alliance. Can you honestly say that TOP and MK trust each other 100 percent? You can argue the reason for the treaty is because of mistrust. Of not knowing what the other will do next. A treaty like yours buys you time and security.

You cannot really say this is a treaty of friendship. Certainly not at the level as MK treaty with her C&G allies or NPO's treaty with TPF, Invicta and the rest of it's allies.
[/quote]

Who trusts anyone at this point. I mean hell, i have fought NPO, allied NPO and fought NPO again. I was an ally, an enemy and an ally again of MK.

Could go on with and for every alliance in this universe.

Do we trust them right at the moment? Yeah. Unlike NpO, MK carry their animosity in the open. Dont see any.

When I was in Gre and allied to NPO we received logs of someone in NPO or assorted alliances wishing for our death at least once every month.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303235081' post='2693710']
Yes, the bound slave eventually grows a sense of attachment for their captor. There's a medical name for it, but I completely forget.
[/quote]

Is the medical condition "not know what you are talking about" itis? Because I'm pretty sure you have that.

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[quote name='Carl the Conqueror' timestamp='1303235173' post='2693714']
I wasn't aware that when I put in my vote for the TOP-MK treaty that our memberships hadn't actually grown very close to each other. I just wanted to keep my infra safe.

Thanks for the clarification.
[/quote]

I admit it is all assumption from me. I do not claim it to be facts. It is what I would have done given your situation. It is not to save infra but to provide security to my alliance.

Now maybe down the road your so called friendship will develop into true friendship but that remains to be seen. Right now the treaty is not base on true friendship but convenience.

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303231996' post='2693661']
Ahhhhh, I think I get it.

[i]It's all NPO's fault that MK is dragging it's feet because MK is just a puppet of the NPO, and thus NPO should have made MK choose to negotiate peace more frequently than once every two weeks.[/i]

Am I close?

[/quote]

Please show me the path that led you to this conclusion. [i]PLEASE[/i]

I want to understand you, HoT, but its so hard when you put on such daft displays. Please help me.

Edited by tamerlane
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