Reason and Purpose

[Rush Sykes]

Hello, I hope, by now, most of you know who I am, but for those who do not, let me introduce myself. I am Rush Sykes. I am, at present, Regent of Athens.

The purpose of this thread, is to explain the feeling and reasoning behind Athens pursuit of Panfilo for , what admittedly, is a crime he committed well over 2 years ago against our alliance. I am here, because during this operation, I was without a computer, and since my return, several queries have come my way asking how I (supposedly being so level-headed, who knew) could allow Athens to pursue such a ridiculous course of action.

Let me begin by saying, that this was not a ridiculous course of action. It was, without a doubt, the fulfillment of a long held grudge that Athens had against one of its charter members, and former high gov member. You see, at the onset of what we now call the NO-CB War, Athens was but a fledgling alliance with a short list of friends, but a closer knit group of friends, you would never find. The closeness of this group, led directly to the very creation of the Complaints and Grievances Union. In the leadup to this conflict, we had began C&G, and we held mandatory defense treaties with all of the members. Among the signatures, on each and every one of those treaties, was Panfilo. It is not as if he were a general member who was blindsided by us running to war with no notice. He knew, when he put his signature on a MANDATORY defense treaty, and again when he put his signature on the origianl MADP of C&G, what those treaties meant.

It came to pass, that through some early chaining of treaties, our friends and allies, and fellow C&G co-founders, in The Mushroom Kingdom, found themselves in a defensive war against NPO. Almost to a man, everyone within C&G was united in fellowship and destiny, and we really did not care if we ever got peace for this war. Ask around, anyone will tell you, it was, without a doubt, the single most united that ANY bloc has EVER been at any snapshot in time. Add in to the fact that NPO declared on MK with what amounted to no treaty chain (MK had hit a protectorate of one of NPOs allies, and even their protector had not yet declared on MK, hence NPO, at the time of their DOW, had no in(Ironic, given the current war against NPO and its dynamics, dontcha think?)) In response to this attack on our allies, Athens immediately began preparing for war. As the leader of an Athens protectorate, I too began to prepare for this war. I would like to re-iterate at this point, that we were obilgated by mandatory treaty to defend MK in a DEFENSIVE war. When you sign a mutual defense pact(as Panfilo did), you dont get(or at least you shouldnt get) the right to agree, or disagree with the war. They were attacked, and there was no conflict of treaties ANYWHERE preventing us from acting. It was cut and dried.

The day after Athens posted her DOW on NPO in defense of our allies, Panfilo, and several of his friends, left Athens, and the only words left for the alliance on the forums from Panfilo were "I not agree with this war"(I am not making fun of his english here, I get that it is not his 1st language, it is simply, that this is what he said.)When Panfilo, and his friends, bailed, it accounted for over half of our alliance's nuclear capability, left target lists and coordination in a shambles.

How... literally... How... do you not agree with a war that is 100% defensive in nature, bound by not one, but 2 treaties that YOU yourself put a signature on? At that moment, Athens, MK and a small group of friends, decided that we would bide our time. The chance for revenge, would one day present itself, and we were going to take it, when and where such an act would not jeopardize any of our allies.

Some of you, may hold the argument, that since it all happened over 2 years ago, it is a silly grudge, and should have just been let go. Just, no.
Too much has been let go in the history of CN. We made a decision long ago, to not let it go, and we stood firmly by that decision. In the time, since this incident happened, Panfilo spent 19 months in TOP. During that time, he TWICE, not once, but TWICE, failed to follow orders to go to war in defense of his alliance. This is the man that so many people seem to think should have been "cut a break"(this was quoted to me by someone in a query as to how we should have handled it.) There are others, who think that(since Panfilo has told some people he intends to quit) we have "driven another player from the game." That is utter BS, and anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together, knows this. If he quits, nothing of value will be lost... NOTHING OF VALUE... at all. He would even be an embarrassment to neutral alliances. Timing of the fulfillment of the grudge aside, this is absolutely, with zero doubt, among the most deserved ZI sentences ever handed out. It is a decision that I am proud to have been a part of. His behavior within TOP, lends validity to everything that we have ever warned anyone about, who was even remotely associated with him. It is a shame, that nobody listened, or heeded the advice.

Could Panfilo have prevented it? Possibly. To my knowledge, NEVER, did he "explain" his actions in the noCB era to us, or anyone else in Athens. Coupling that with his career and performance within TOP, it seems clear that he simply was an infra hugger who sought to build only a statistical nation while trying to keep involved in the political world. Within the realms of this game, people like him are scum, and we are better off without them.

Invitation : On the off chance that Panfilo reads this, I cordially invite you to engage in discourse with me concerning your actions in noCB, and subsequent refusal to fight for TOP in 2 wars. The ZI is over, the grudge has been settles, to those of us, however, who once confided in, and trusted in you, we feel we are owed some sort of a detailed explanation or apology. I dont expect he will take me up on this matter, but the invitation is out there. Thank you all for your time.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Rush Sykes

[Jgoods45]

I support and endorse this Athenian propaganda piece.

o/Athens

panfilo

[Fyfe XIV]

I'm going to go ahead and agree with Rush here, there is absolutely nothing wrong with driving Mr. NOT AGREE WITH THIS WAR out of here.

Its also interesting how few people understand the concept of non-negotiable.



o/ Panfilo at ZI

[wickedj]

i NOT AGREE WITH THIS POST

Well, tbh, i dont agree with anything Rush says

[oddjob]

Is someone becoming anemic?

[BloodFury]

o/ For a just cause.

Next Target will be brought to you by the Athens Public Broadcasting Station during its normal airing time.

[Londo Mollari]

[color=red][size="6"]I NOT AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT[/size][/color]


Panfilo betrayed Athens to save his infra. No, we never forgave him for that. No one who was there at the time did. And I'm fine with that. But we're good now, and I regret that he felt the need to delete all of his wonders and improvements. What Panfilo does now is fully up to him, and our score has been settled.

[ImperialCubanacan]

What a bizarre OP.

[ChesterStevensDevonn]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1301360408' post='2679519']
How... literally... How... do you not agree with a war that is 100% defensive in nature, bound by not one, but 2 treaties that YOU yourself put a signature on?
[/quote]

It makes since how he doesn't agree with it; many people disagree with treaty's they set place in the past. However, The doesn't mean he can or should take it back. It was his obligation to support the dow for his alliance, he couldn't accept this in his personal opinion so he left.

I'm agreeing with you not on the grudge, but on the fact that this is a member who betrayed his alliance. On that note I fully support you Athens in this keep on rocking.

[Azaghul]

I fully support this and I'm glad to have played a part by nuking him on my old nation.

[The Pansy]

I can't agree with anything Rush Sykes says, so I just will not comment on this.... damn, I just ruined that.
I await Panfilo's response with baited breath.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1301362494' post='2679562']
I fully support this and I'm glad to have played a part by nuking him on my old nation.
[/quote]

It was a masterful piece of roguery and everyone in Athens was cheering for you.

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote] "I not agree with this war"(I am not making fun of his english here, I get that it is not his 1st language, it is simply, that this is what he said.)When Panfilo, and his friends, bailed, it accounted for over half of our alliance's nuclear capability, left target lists and coordination [b]in a shambles.[/b]
[/quote]

i lol'd given the timing

Knock yourself out Athens, killing off old grudges rocks

[Omniscient1]

I'm just waiting for Chey to post in this thread so I can look dumb again.

I agree with Athen's point of view on this one though.

[Earogema]

I'll never understand how you people hold grudges for soooooooooo long. It's just a game. I mean I know it can be taken both ways like, "it's just a game so I can hold grudges for as long as I want" but still man.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1301366960' post='2679612']
I'll never understand how you people hold grudges for soooooooooo long. It's just a game. I mean I know it can be taken both ways like, "it's just a game so I can hold grudges for as long as I want" but still man.
[/quote]
Some people's dads don't hug them.

[Dagrr]

Hey looks its Karma everyone!

Maybe I'll go join Blackwater and OBR again to fight for freedom.

Seriously, its 2011 now. Things change. I have no idea why you still be worried about someones actions during the NoCB war.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Henry

[Jgoods45]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1301367643' post='2679625']
Some people's dads don't hug them.
[/quote]

This is true. My dad doesn't show much emotion unless he is drunk or pissed off at something. :<

Revenge is a dish best served cold. :3

[ace072199]

I understand your anger & Frustration over this, I really do. I just think after all this time has passed that you would be over it. Panfilo I am sure, (by looking at his nation) is leaving the game. So it is finally over, I hope after holding a grudge this long you guys finally got some relief out of this.

I will say Panfilo, assured me that he wanted to rebuild his reputation. He assured me that he was going to Fight beside us if we needed him to.

I also would like to add how funny it is that you didn't attack him while he was in TOP, but he joins a smaller alliance and it is not negotiable.

[itseZe]

[quote name='ace072199' timestamp='1301369495' post='2679646']
I understand your anger & Frustration over this, I really do. I just think after all this time has passed that you would be over it. Panfilo I am sure, (by looking at his nation) is leaving the game. So it is finally over, I hope after holding a grudge this long you guys finally got some relief out of this. [/quote]

Well if he really is leaving then there is no harm done, right? Athens gets what they wanted, and Panfilo gets what he wanted.
Best solution for everyone.

[Fyfe XIV]

[quote name='ace072199' timestamp='1301369495' post='2679646']
I understand your anger & Frustration over this, I really do. I just think after all this time has passed that you would be over it. Panfilo I am sure, (by looking at his nation) is leaving the game. So it is finally over, I hope after holding a grudge this long you guys finally got some relief out of this.

I will say Panfilo, assured me that he wanted to rebuild his reputation. He assured me that he was going to Fight beside us if we needed him to.

I also would like to add how funny it is that you didn't attack him while he was in TOP, but he joins a smaller alliance and it is not negotiable.
[/quote]

Yeah well he also lied on multiple applications after being kicked out of an alliance for refusing to fight. Words are easy to say.

If all Schatt has are his usual chowderheaded comments then we're good to go.

[New Frontier]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1301364723' post='2679587']
I'm just waiting for Chey to post in this thread so I can look dumb again.
[/quote]
I thought about it, but you don't really need my help.

[Sardonic]

All cowards must burn.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

[quote name='green muffins' timestamp='1301362466' post='2679560']
It makes since how he doesn't agree with it; many people disagree with treaty's they set place in the past. However, The doesn't mean he can or should take it back. It was his obligation to support the dow for his alliance, he couldn't accept this in his personal opinion so he left.

I'm agreeing with you not on the grudge, but on the fact that this is a member who betrayed his alliance. On that note I fully support you Athens in this keep on rocking.
[/quote]

...GM CnG was signed with the knowledge that No-CB was going to happen. We knew that MK was going to be hit next war and hit hard and we signed full on knowing that. It was something like a month before NoCB that this was worked out. If he didn't get it then he's an idiot or a coward and both should warrant ZI sentences in this case using your high government position to bail and take half of an alliances nuclear arsenal in wartime is something I've never seen anywhere else. The only thing that comes close to what happened to Athens is the TSO-MCXA deal and that happened in peace time and the grudge there was long standing. Blood was needed for this to end and it was taken.

[Crymson]

I can confirm that Panfilo was the first member of TOP ever to be expelled for cowardice, and only the seventh member in TOP's history to be expelled in general.