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Manhattan Project Change


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Due to the change this round, there’s an explosion of MP’s this round and with so many nukes, all other types of fighting are becoming nearly non-existent even in low NS levels. If the next round stays exactly the same, I predict there will be enough nuke enabled nations that all wars will be nothing but nuke wars even among the freshly re-rolled nation levels. In fact, some nations now seem they are configured only to throw nukes and nothing else. How about two possibilities for next round?

1. Increase the cost of MP to $10mil
2. Remove MP wonder for a round

Leave everything else as is as it pertains to war and building and see how that works. (That change in prize Thaisport mentioned would be nice)

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[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1301236770' post='2678232']
Due to the change this round, there’s an explosion of MP’s this round and with so many nukes, all other types of fighting are becoming nearly non-existent even in low NS levels. If the next round stays exactly the same, I predict there will be enough nuke enabled nations that all wars will be nothing but nuke wars even among the freshly re-rolled nation levels. In fact, some nations now seem they are configured only to throw nukes and nothing else. How about two possibilities for next round?

1. Increase the cost of MP to $10mil
2. Remove MP wonder for a round

Leave everything else as is as it pertains to war and building and see how that works. (That change in prize Thaisport mentioned would be nice)
[/quote]

There are presently 54 manhattan projects over a total of 1509 total nations, which comes out to 3.5% of the game, adding on the top 5%, only 8.5% of the game are nuclear capable right now.

That number will rise, but I doubt it tops 15% over the course of the round. Thats not horrible. A few more then that have nuclear weapons (something like 10% of the game), but alot of people move in and out of the top 5%.

Its an added dynamic to warfare, one which we'll have to adjust to, but its not necessarily a bad thing.

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This thought came up while thinking up build strategies for next round from what's been seen so far and a wonder purchase with MP was easy to create. For those that follow some type of build strategies, which I would guess is the most active players, I predict most of these players to have MP next round.

Of course, if most players like this version, that just makes me a minority that prefer a good fist fight and just has to deal with the situation.

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  • 5 months later...

[quote name='scytale' timestamp='1301236770' post='2678232']
Due to the change this round, there’s an explosion of MP’s this round and with so many nukes, all other types of fighting are becoming nearly non-existent even in low NS levels. If the next round stays exactly the same, I predict there will be enough nuke enabled nations that all wars will be nothing but nuke wars even among the freshly re-rolled nation levels. In fact, some nations now seem they are configured only to throw nukes and nothing else. How about two possibilities for next round?

1. Increase the cost of MP to $10mil
2. Remove MP wonder for a round

Leave everything else as is as it pertains to war and building and see how that works. (That change in prize Thaisport mentioned would be nice)
[/quote]

I support the first option and I want MP should cost 10m$ or 12m$ coz I observed in previous rounds that some friends of flag runners buy MP cheaply and then buy only nukes and at 45th-50th day they start attacking big players while the flag runners try to remain anonymous and dont use any nuke :blink:

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I've been buying nukes without the MP. And the MP is already very expensive, cheaper to get nukes without it. I'd support an increase to around 6M, not much more.


Also, if you're suggesting top 5% become the only ones who can buy nukes, here's what I'd expect...

Warring alliances like LE and PS hit other big alliances early on and lose a few days of growth.
Tiny alliances grow in the background after a few months, hit top 5%.
These small alliances start buying nukes, exponentially increasing their NS with every nuke. Given enough time, they'll get SDIs too, since they don't have to save money for a MP.
When the warring alliances start growing into top 5%, they easily rogue and nuke everyone else trying to get up there. The now top nations will win those wars because of early nuclear and SDI advantage, and stay in top 5% longer. The losers of those wars will no longer be able to buy nukes because they drop out of top 5%.
The large nuclear nations will just be holding everyone's heads below the water. They'd freely grief and raid everyone. What non-nuclear nation would fight back against a raider with nukes?
Even if these large nuclear nations were nuked, the peak infra system, and their warchests at this stage allow them to rebuild back to an earlier point.

Everyone will realize this later on, and nobody will declare wars until they can grow big enough to get nukes. So, you'll get a similar situation to CN:SE where nobody declares war because they don't want to lose, but everyone whines that nobody is declaring war.

Edited by MrMuz
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[quote name='dealmaster13' timestamp='1314522376' post='2789851']
I reckon it would be more worthwhile to impose a penalty against those with an MP rather than make it harder to purchase or even remove it altogether.
[/quote]

I would rather see nukes become free for everyone to use, nuclear anarchy removed, and TE used as a testing ground for new weaponry with new effects. Let's face it, nukes are outdated anyways. Shake things up and make it so that the "set formula" in TE no longer exists.

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MPs arent the problem. The declaring range is the problem. 50 - 200% is too large. People can get an MP at 8k and buy a few nukes and then declare on a 16k nation who's in the top 5% that has been slowly preparing for war because they dont want the top 10 nations of 22k ns or more hitting them. It's stupid because once you get to 3999 infras, 500 tech, full navy and aircraft, you really can't go much from there because you would blow a lot of money on Infras and get little NS gains in return. So you can't really outgrow people at that point.

Fix the declaring range.

Edited by SoADarthCyfe6
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  • 3 months later...

Hate to grave dig but I came up with a suggestion for the MP :nuke: . Even when nations were beginning with $1million the MP was still $5mil. Yet when the beginning amount increase to $5mil the MP stayed the same. I propose making the MP [b]$25mil[/b]. With all the complaints with nukes being to strong and me personally believing that war is now all about who has more nukes believes that it should be harder to obtain the MP.

Edited by CEO George Harris
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You know.. I've been thinking about this if AA's didn't sit on their ass for so long we wouldn't have this many nukes, LE currently has 300 nukes with 25 members, is this because the MP is to easily accessibly? No this is because they sat out for so long, AA's that do that are going to get massive amounts no matter what, why punish the people that try to fight because some people don't fight enough?

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[quote name='ADude' timestamp='1322786196' post='2858667']
You know.. I've been thinking about this if AA's didn't sit on their ass for so long we wouldn't have this many nukes, LE currently has 300 nukes with 25 members, is this because the MP is to easily accessibly? No this is because they sat out for so long, AA's that do that are going to get massive amounts no matter what, why punish the people that try to fight because some people don't fight enough?
[/quote]
So MAKE them fight.

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[quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1314550540' post='2790007']
MPs arent the problem. The declaring range is the problem. 50 - 200% is too large. People can get an MP at 8k and buy a few nukes and then declare on a 16k nation who's in the top 5% that has been slowly preparing for war because they dont want the top 10 nations of 22k ns or more hitting them. It's stupid because once you get to 3999 infras, 500 tech, full navy and aircraft, you really can't go much from there because you would blow a lot of money on Infras and get little NS gains in return. So you can't really outgrow people at that point.

Fix the declaring range.
[/quote]

I agree with the statement above. Declaring range is way too big. Fix that and an increase of the MP to about 10m should do. anything under that wouldn't be worth it.

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[quote name='ADude' timestamp='1322786196' post='2858667']
You know.. I've been thinking about this if AA's didn't sit on their ass for so long we wouldn't have this many nukes, LE currently has 300 nukes with 25 members, is this because the MP is to easily accessibly? No this is because they sat out for so long, AA's that do that are going to get massive amounts no matter what, why punish the people that try to fight because some people don't fight enough?
[/quote]

Adude I am not here to point fingers and say which alliances did what. I am here to make a suggestion. Please keep your bickering to the OWF.

Edited by CEO George Harris
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  • 1 month later...

The problem with MP is TE is that once the wars start, anyone that doesn't have nukes is powerless against someone that does have them. This is because a nuke basically wipes out your entire army, regardless of how much you have invested in it. And people will stock up on nukes, and then become small NS and start slaughtering smaller players before they get a chance to get the MP.

At $10 mil it takes roughly 10 days for someone not in the top 5% to get the MP. But 10 days in the time scale of TE is basically eternity. Wars usually hit before you have a chance to get the MP. So we should either make the MP affordable to all, or make all have to get it. Remember, the US was the first to get nuclear weapons, and was also the one to get the MP for real, so it is not at all unrealistic to require everyone to get it.

Some have mentioned trying to use the MP to reduce the number of nukes present. Instead why not double the cost of nukes themselves. Then everyone has a more even chance of getting them if they want them, yet there will not so many of them present.

So I personally think:
- MP should be $3mil.
- Everyone should be required to buy the MP to get nukes.
- Nukes should cost $1mil for the first one.

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[quote name='Fair Weather' timestamp='1328032292' post='2911587']
The problem with MP is TE is that once the wars start, anyone that doesn't have nukes is powerless against someone that does have them. This is because a nuke basically wipes out your entire army, regardless of how much you have invested in it. And people will stock up on nukes, and then become small NS and start slaughtering smaller players before they get a chance to get the MP.

At $10 mil it takes roughly 10 days for someone not in the top 5% to get the MP. But 10 days in the time scale of TE is basically eternity. Wars usually hit before you have a chance to get the MP. So we should either make the MP affordable to all, or make all have to get it. Remember, the US was the first to get nuclear weapons, and was also the one to get the MP for real, so it is not at all unrealistic to require everyone to get it.

Some have mentioned trying to use the MP to reduce the number of nukes present. Instead why not double the cost of nukes themselves. Then everyone has a more even chance of getting them if they want them, yet there will not so many of them present.

So I personally think:
- MP should be $3mil.
- Everyone should be required to buy the MP to get nukes.
- Nukes should cost $1mil for the first one.
[/quote]
No... just no

Also who are you.

Edited by Stelios
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[quote name='Fair Weather' timestamp='1328032292' post='2911587']
The problem with MP is TE is that once the wars start, anyone that doesn't have nukes is powerless against someone that does have them. This is because a nuke basically wipes out your entire army, regardless of how much you have invested in it. And people will stock up on nukes, and then become small NS and start slaughtering smaller players before they get a chance to get the MP.

At $10 mil it takes roughly 10 days for someone not in the top 5% to get the MP. But 10 days in the time scale of TE is basically eternity. Wars usually hit before you have a chance to get the MP. So we should either make the MP affordable to all, or make all have to get it. Remember, the US was the first to get nuclear weapons, and was also the one to get the MP for real, so it is not at all unrealistic to require everyone to get it.

Some have mentioned trying to use the MP to reduce the number of nukes present. Instead why not double the cost of nukes themselves. Then everyone has a more even chance of getting them if they want them, yet there will not so many of them present.

So I personally think:
- MP should be $3mil.
- Everyone should be required to buy the MP to get nukes.
- Nukes should cost $1mil for the first one.
[/quote]

If you build your nation properly it only takes 3 to 4 days to buy an MP. I think the change this round was for the better.

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First: lol @ it taking 10 days to afford buying an MP. Try building your nation more efficiently.

On to Manhattan Project suggestions... the game seems to take at least some inspiration from the Civilization series. In Civ, the MP is just like all other wonders (and the Highlander): There Can Be Only One. But the effects apply to everyone in the game.

Make only one Manhattan Project in the world. No nukes can be built until the Manhattan Project is completed; once it is finished, everyone who meets minimum requirements for nukes can build them (the minimum requirements could be tweaked). Make it collaborative, every nation can spend $X per time period to put toward MP, when the pool reaches $Y, MP is completed. Maybe the value of $Y is secret. Maybe $X changes based on University, National Research Lab, Great University. Can't contribute to the global Nukes For Casualties program unless nation position on nukes is set to support nuclear weapons. Changing your nation position takes 3 days (i.e. if MP pops up, you can't go "Oh !@#$, switch!" and immediately start buying).

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[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1328054650' post='2911918']
First: lol @ it taking 10 days to afford buying an MP. Try building your nation more efficiently.

On to Manhattan Project suggestions... the game seems to take at least some inspiration from the Civilization series. In Civ, the MP is just like all other wonders (and the Highlander): There Can Be Only One. But the effects apply to everyone in the game.

Make only one Manhattan Project in the world. No nukes can be built until the Manhattan Project is completed; once it is finished, everyone who meets minimum requirements for nukes can build them (the minimum requirements could be tweaked). Make it collaborative, every nation can spend $X per time period to put toward MP, when the pool reaches $Y, MP is completed. Maybe the value of $Y is secret. Maybe $X changes based on University, National Research Lab, Great University. Can't contribute to the global Nukes For Casualties program unless nation position on nukes is set to support nuclear weapons. Changing your nation position takes 3 days (i.e. if MP pops up, you can't go "Oh !@#$, switch!" and immediately start buying).
[/quote]

ogod this would be hilarious.

i support

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[quote name='Fair Weather' timestamp='1328032292' post='2911587']
The problem with MP is TE is that once the wars start, anyone that doesn't have nukes is powerless against someone that does have them. This is because a nuke basically wipes out your entire army, regardless of how much you have invested in it. And people will stock up on nukes, and then become small NS and start slaughtering smaller players before they get a chance to get the MP.

At $10 mil it takes roughly 10 days for someone not in the top 5% to get the MP. But 10 days in the time scale of TE is basically eternity. Wars usually hit before you have a chance to get the MP. So we should either make the MP affordable to all, or make all have to get it. Remember, the US was the first to get nuclear weapons, and was also the one to get the MP for real, so it is not at all unrealistic to require everyone to get it.

Some have mentioned trying to use the MP to reduce the number of nukes present. Instead why not double the cost of nukes themselves. Then everyone has a more even chance of getting them if they want them, yet there will not so many of them present.

So I personally think:
- MP should be $3mil.
- Everyone should be required to buy the MP to get nukes.
- Nukes should cost $1mil for the first one.
[/quote]
:lol1::nuke::excl::gag::blink:

[quote name='Stelios' timestamp='1328033228' post='2911591']
No... just no

Also who are you.
[/quote]
Agree

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Some have said "No" to my suggestion, but have not given a reason. Since this is a thread to suggest things, and to discuss reasons for and against, may I ask your reasons?

As to the person that said that if it took more than 3-4 days, than you just need to build your nation more efficiently: That only works if you develop you nation and build the MP before the first war breaks out. Otherwise it is nukes against non-nukes, and in that case nukes always rule. But don't take my word for that, just read the posts in this forum. There are many people complaining about the current setup making it that there are too many nukes, and only people with nukes have a chance. Well as long as the game makes it so that only people with nukes have a chance, and nukes are cheap (if you get them at the start), then there will be a lot of nukes, and only nukes will rules.

My suggestion was aimed at making everyone capable of getting nukes instead of only the 5% that start on the first day and happen to get to the top quickly by reducing the cost to the others nearer to being equal with the top 5%. And it was aimed at reducing the total nukes, and increasing the cost of using the nukes, to reduce their use throughout the game. These were the two problems people were trying to address, and I believe my suggestion addressed both of the problems.

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