Banksy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) CD will [i]never ever[/i] leave terms. Sucks to be you guys. Edited March 25, 2011 by Banksy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stetson76 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Congratulations on peace guys. Good luck rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301023156' post='2675563'] I see it as the equivalent of the NPO forcing surrendered alliances to destroy their military wonders, but worse yet. Just as it took vast amounts of cash and time to build up those wonders, so too did it take the upper echelon of CD a considerable period of time to build up that kind of tech: just longer yet then it took for the nations who had to destroy their military wonders back in the day. But of course, this is a brave new world, where the oppression of the NPO no longer exists. How lucky we are. [/quote] It's 600 tech per top 10 nation. That's six 3/100 tech deals. It will take them less than a month to accomplish that. Destroying a single military wonder erases a month of work and much more value than tech valued at $18 million. Destroying multiple utterly dwarfs it. Your comparison is invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Carrick' timestamp='1301021270' post='2675504'] Hasn't apparently stopped you from having an opinion on it anyway. [/quote] Since the terms are now public, I do know something now, and I was mostly commenting on the strictly punitive portion of the reps. I was also fishing for a comment on the reps from someone in MK, which Ardus did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Mirreille' timestamp='1301023955' post='2675586'] Since the terms are now public, I do know something now, and I was mostly commenting on the strictly punitive portion of the reps. I was also fishing for a comment on the reps from someone in MK, which Ardus did. [/quote] Actually, I failed to address the first part of your post. To answer it now: yes, the terms are stiffer than most because of CD's re-entry into the global conflict. They aren't as stiff as our first (or second) offered terms, due in large part to Carpe Diem's willingness to be mature and negotiate toward a mutually acceptable agreement. An ounce of civility will save you a pound of tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1301023814' post='2675582'] It's 600 tech per top 10 nation. That's six 3/100 tech deals. It will take them less than a month to accomplish that. Destroying a single military wonder erases a month of work and much more value than tech valued at $18 million. Destroying multiple utterly dwarfs it. Your comparison is invalid. [/quote] I was unaware people still tech sellers off with 3/100 deals. At 3/50 (The standard rate if one looks at the black market section of these forums), the top nations alone will be out 360mil and 12 slots of time, which they could have been using to funnel cash down into the mid-lower tiers. That combined with the rest of the reps meaning that CD will be paying roughly 1.2bil in reps for coming to the response of an ally. These terms are a !@#$@#$ joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301024662' post='2675600'] I was unaware people still tech sellers off with 3/100 deals. At 3/50 (The standard rate if one looks at the black market section of these forums), the top nations alone will be out 360mil and 12 slots of time, which they could have been using to funnel cash down into the mid-lower tiers. That combined with the rest of the reps meaning that CD will be paying roughly 1.2bil in reps for coming to the response of an ally. These terms are a !@#$@#$ joke. [/quote] The people shopping for tech in the black market are those without access to contracted or organized tech dealing, are therefore desperate for responsible tech dealers, and are therefore willing to pay a premium for it. 3/50 is a charity rate and citing it inflates the number you use to portray the Kingdom in a false light. It would be equally inaccurate if I used the buyer-preferential rate of 3/150. 3/100 is the neutral, standard rate, which translates to $690,000,000. It is a substantial sum, but Carpe Diem is plenty capable of paying it now, let alone by the time we come calling at the end of the war. Carpe Diem re-entered a global conflict it had agreed to leave. It earned its reparation term and fully expected it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krunk the Great Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301024662' post='2675600'] I was unaware people still tech sellers off with 3/100 deals. At 3/50 (The standard rate if one looks at the black market section of these forums), the top nations alone will be out 360mil and 12 slots of time, which they could have been using to funnel cash down into the mid-lower tiers. That combined with the rest of the reps meaning that CD will be paying roughly 1.2bil in reps for coming to the response of an ally. These terms are a !@#$@#$ joke. [/quote] 3m/100 is just fine for any seller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlogYou Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301024662' post='2675600'] I was unaware people still tech sellers off with 3/100 deals. At 3/50 (The standard rate if one looks at the black market section of these forums), the top nations alone will be out 360mil and 12 slots of time, which they could have been using to funnel cash down into the mid-lower tiers. That combined with the rest of the reps meaning that CD will be paying roughly 1.2bil in reps for coming to the response of an ally. These terms are a !@#$@#$ joke. [/quote] Or instead they could turn to their allies, and friends and ask them for 3/100 tech deals. The simple fact is they could turn to their own alliance mates in the lower tier to funnel cheap tech up to them at 3/100 techdeals to turn over to the MK, so in effect they could help their own small nations while paying reps and neutralizing any of their own tech loses. But it is so much easier to wander the cyberverse with your head in the clouds and a stupified grin spouting off about how horrible the terms are and what a sham we're tring to serve. The terms are what they are, and what CD makes of them, and they don't have to be the absurdity that you make them to be. However, those nations and alliance leaders that are too daft to put a little effort in, deserve what they make of it. CD can pay this off total cost under $600 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1301021592' post='2675518'] I would traditionally agree with your sarcastic intent, but I thought Carpe Diem's unique entry into the conflict required a particular recognition. Bionic Redhead, for his part, wrote an apology that retained CD's dignity while recognizing our concern and addressed it effectively. [/quote] I agree that BR handled the apology well for what was required, and I have no problem addressing the concerns on the part of those who signed those original terms. The apology to MK part seemed very strange, and comes across as the most forced (since I don't think anyone is clear on what that apology is for). For what it is, it was handled well. I guess I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairna Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301024662' post='2675600'] I was unaware people still tech sellers off with 3/100 deals. At 3/50 (The standard rate if one looks at the black market section of these forums), the top nations alone will be out 360mil and 12 slots of time, which they could have been using to funnel cash down into the mid-lower tiers. That combined with the rest of the reps meaning that CD will be paying roughly 1.2bil in reps for coming to the response of an ally. These terms are a !@#$@#$ joke. [/quote] Oh god oh god what have we done!! I keep telling BR we néed to start reading terms before we sign them! Sorry guys. Looks like we'll have something else to apologize for soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1301025102' post='2675607'] The people shopping for tech in the black market are those without access to contracted or organized tech dealing, are therefore desperate for responsible tech dealers, and are therefore willing to pay a premium for it. 3/50 is a charity rate and citing it inflates the number you use to portray the Kingdom in a false light. It would be equally inaccurate if I used the buyer-preferential rate of 3/150. 3/100 is the neutral, standard rate, which translates to $690,000,000. It is a substantial sum, but Carpe Diem is plenty capable of paying it now, let alone by the time we come calling at the end of the war. Carpe Diem re-entered a global conflict it had agreed to leave. It earned its reparation term and fully expected it. [/quote] Not according to the terms they signed. And a majority of the people they surrendered to agreed that CD's move was legal. Pretty sure it was just Umbrella reacting, and weren't they nothing more than a ghost DoW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydro Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1301025102' post='2675607'] The people shopping for tech in the black market are those without access to contracted or organized tech dealing, are therefore desperate for responsible tech dealers, and are therefore willing to pay a premium for it. 3/50 is a charity rate and citing it inflates the number you use to portray the Kingdom in a false light. It would be equally inaccurate if I used the buyer-preferential rate of 3/150. 3/100 is the neutral, standard rate, which translates to $690,000,000. It is a substantial sum, but Carpe Diem is plenty capable of paying it now, let alone by the time we come calling at the end of the war. Carpe Diem re-entered a global conflict it had agreed to leave. It earned its reparation term and fully expected it. [/quote] I use the black market and I don't lack access to organized tech deals. More to the point, I still wouldn't expect alliance mates to pay 3/100 if I chose to use the infrastructure already in place. 3/100 might have been a good deal back in 08, but 3 years later, that's just a straight ripoff. In any case though, the reps being given by CD will account for something between 10-20% of the aid already given to you by your allies (As reported by you in that monster thread). Not a bad showing really, considering CD only has 65 nations and you managed to selectively target the few remaining nations that they have which are capable of pumping them back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 How very...CSNesque. Good luck rebuilding, CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmansfield68 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Best wishes to CD on rebuilding. While the reps are a sham, the apology is a monumental outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1301026624' post='2675672'] Not according to the terms they signed. And a majority of the people they surrendered to agreed that CD's move was legal. Pretty sure it was just Umbrella reacting, and weren't they nothing more than a ghost DoW? [/quote] Nope, it was considered a violation. Go read the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301028144' post='2675715'] How very...CSNesque. <_< [/quote] Not really, we got what we wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinite citadel Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Hydro' timestamp='1301026650' post='2675673'] I use the black market and I don't lack access to organized tech deals. More to the point, I still wouldn't expect alliance mates to pay 3/100 if I chose to use the infrastructure already in place. 3/100 might have been a good deal back in 08, but 3 years later, that's just a straight ripoff. In any case though, the reps being given by CD will account for something between 10-20% of the aid already given to you by your allies (As reported by you in that monster thread). Not a bad showing really, considering CD only has 65 nations and you managed to selectively target the few remaining nations that they have which are capable of pumping them back up. [/quote] MK's standard rate is 3m/100t, there is no reason we would calculate the deals at 3m/50t because the black market says it is the 'standard' rate. As for 3m/100t being a rip off, you realize 50 tech only costs ~800k right? That means you make 2.2 mil off of a 3m/50t deal and 1.4 mil off of a 3m/100t deal. Hardly the rip off you make it out to be, in fact I'd say it's pretty fair. The reps being given by CD are the only pure reps we are asking for at this time. The rest are in the form of tech deals at 3m/100t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x8BitL0gic Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Good luck rebuilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred von Tirpitz Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Good luck rebuilding CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1301028144' post='2675715'] How very...CSNesque. Good luck rebuilding, CD. [/quote] Taking reps is now CSNesque? Even though CSN has done it only once through the entire history? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Bionic redhead' timestamp='1301011367' post='2675277'] And now for the immediate part of our peace terms. Carpe Diem entered the war against the Mushroom Kingdom with the best of intentions, in order to help our allies. We have no regrets in our actions and hope our enemies and anyone who believes we broke peace terms understand why we did this. I also understand why other alliances believe that we broke our peace terms. Treaties are not something that should be entered into lightly and I am aware that our re-entry to the war was controversial. Having signed the peace terms, we should not have entered the doomhouse war. As such, on behalf of Carpe Diem, I sincerely apologise to Nueva Vida, Grand Lodge of Freemasons, We Are Perth Army, Colossus, Quantum, Aurora Borealis, The Foreign Division, North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, The New Guy, The Peoples Community, DDM, Sparta, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, PPO, Alpha Omega, Darkfall, Argent and Umbrella for any breaches or adjudged breaches of the peace treaty we signed. As they were the direct victim of our actions, I would also like to apologise to the Mushroom Kingdom and will gladly pay the reps demanded of us by the Mushroom Kingdom as they are deserved. - Bionic Redhead, Sovereign of Carpe Diem [/quote]Apology accepted. Thanks Carpe Diem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memoryproblems Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1301028439' post='2675722'] Nope, it was considered a violation. Go read the thread. [/quote] A wonderful example of how the victors write the history. Because you won, you can call it whatever you like, you can force CD to admit it was, and you can write it down in the history books, but all that doesn't make it true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonator21 Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1301030466' post='2675801'] A wonderful example of how the victors write the history. Because you won, you can call it whatever you like, you can force CD to admit it was, and you can write it down in the history books, but all that doesn't make it true. [/quote] Make sure to tell your children's children that it wasn't a violation. Pass along the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1301030466' post='2675801'] A wonderful example of how the victors write the history. Because you won, you can call it whatever you like, you can force CD to admit it was, and you can write it down in the history books, but all that doesn't make it true. [/quote] I bet it was also the fact that the other signatories agreed it was a violation that did that. Just a wild guess though. Now if you'll excuse me I have people to oppress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.