AirMe

[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1358975449' post='3084234'] Or, you know, it could be that NEW has a MDoAP with TORN, and TORN is Duckroll along with AI/IRON. DB4D has MDoAP with NEW.It's a lot of oA, sure. That option becomes a whole lot easier to exercise due to past grievances, but there are connections for all the declarations. [/quote] I honestly keep forgetting about the NEW/TORN treaty. Which invalidates my PC/California argument. Oh well. You live you learn.

[quote name='WarriorSoul' timestamp='1358972113' post='3084221'] Consider it a new CB: Past grievances. It's been used before. [/quote] So they can be countered without any counters from Q because they are not tied by treaty to any of those alliances. It only took 10 pages. Unless Q is setting a new precedent here, allowing uninvolved alliances to just bandwagon on for the cause. I mean why not...all the other acceptable methods of warfare have been thrown out the window here. Why not just throw out the last bit of politics out the window with it as well? Does TPF remember the California incident? When PC raided them, a protectorate of TPF, when TPF could not defend them due to a larger war and it was universally called BS? This is a similar thing.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1358907302' post='3084174'] [i]AirMe![/i] Calm down. It's me, Schattenmann, look at me, AirMe, it's Schattenmann, you know me. The International has an at least 2 year track record of screwing ally after ally. They just do. They're a global laugh-in. How many hundreds of pages have you automatons written spurning ~e-lawyering~? But ohhhh, wait for it, [i]the treaty was violated[/i]. That treaty was trash tomorrow if it hadn't been trash yesterday, and everybody knows it. So spare me, bud. Death to Doom House? Don't be stupid. Of course. You know--you know [i]personally[/i]--what kind of trash they are. But you've sat pretty on their side for the whole ride for some inexplicable reason; maybe you like winning. Now the curtains are coming down, and don't you dare get emotional with me about it. I'm on one side--the ideals espoused by Cult of Justitia--and you know that or you don't know anything; or do you think we don't have any treaties with these guys because I agree with them too much to ally them? Huh, not hardly. But today, this war, this time is right. So right that I wrote half the DoW, yessir, and proud and happy to have been of service. And you know as well as I do that I'm here as long as the stars are aligned, and when they're not, I'm gone, and that's why I can depend on criticism and vitriol from you [i]and [/i]them, because I don't compromise for rah rah anything. [/quote] Did I criticize you for saying death to doomhouse? No. I said the only reason you would support what NEW did is because you are in death to doomhouse mode. I know how you feel and I respect that. NEW is not part of INT's terrible track record. IMO INT should have cancelled on NEW when they started going around telling alliances they were going to suicide off of the planet but that was not my call to make. I am "sitting pretty?" on their side because of the alliance I am in. I am not complaining about this war. I welcome it. My personal grievances aside TLR is one of the best alliances I have been in and the people in it are ones that I have been aligned with for as long as I have been here. My personal feelings about UMB and MK aside, it was not the wish of TLR to move away from them and I respect that. And in order to be in TLR I have to live with it and I will do just that. You don't have to live with my personal conflict. I do.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358906259' post='3084158'] You forgot to say that by your and INT's logic any alliance shouldn't attack them or they will be getting tons of complains because an alliance shouldn't attack it former allies, but also by your logic it's ok to INT cancel, throw under the bus and/or send their other allies to attack (not necessarily in this order) those who have a treaty with them. [/quote] I believe my exact words were "As good of a CB as any other but it still is a rooster move." NEW was not thrown under the bus nor were any of INT's allies going to declare on them so I am confused as to what you are attempting to imply here.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358905224' post='3084146'] INT really believes they deserved some good treatment from their former allies? After spit straight in their face? If so, you guys aren't just cowards and two-faced, but also delusional.[list] [*]INT promised to back up LSF just to later throw them under the bus. [*]INT ignored their treaty with R&R and let two of their blocmates hit them, theoretically declaring war against their own allies(CnG is MADP after all) [*]INT canceled their treaty with NEW after the first sign of they could have to defend them. [/list] And now, after all the bad treatment that INT gave to it former allies they still have the audacity to come here and criticize them. If INT survives this war (I hope not) they need to remove everyone who ever dealed with FA and forbid them to ever come back, because those people are doing better job in destroying INT than any coalition ever will. INT has become the modern GGA. [/quote] Got it. No treaty should ever be canceled for any reason no matter what the language says. Even if an alliance completely obliterates a clause they should not be cancelled on ever.

[quote name='Land of True Israel' timestamp='1358902561' post='3084107'] You should probably cease pulling conclusions out of thin air. You have no idea how much effort it has taken by several parties to convince NEW not to smash these commies over a week ago, nor how upset they are that DB4D and others are occupying what they believe should be their slots. If you are going to use these circumstances in an attempt to make NEW appear to be opportunists afraid of a real fight, then you are just blowing smoke up your own arse. [/quote] So instead of just painting them as opportunists you paint them as terrible allies. Here are some facts: for months NEW talked about suiciding of the planet by hitting MK. Then they tried to insight a major war with out notifying INT which was a direct violation of the treaty that they were both signatories of. So...they get called on their bull and then want to turn around and attack the alliance that wouldn't put up with their crap? And NEW were the ones wronged? Why would you ever want to be allied to NEW if they behave like that?

[quote name='KenoCore' timestamp='1358902283' post='3084103'] Amrak is a !@#$%* I know but hey its CN polotics no ones allowed to be on top for too long. [/quote] What?

Apparently Yates made that little piece of C&G propaganda.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1358899505' post='3084068'] Oh? Is Cata better than this too? What crap, AirMe? Like TLR and NG, Int has been living in a fantasy world where they could ally enemies and live happily in the middle. It's not possible, and I won't bear anymore whining about it. NEW and LSF don't owe The International [i]dick [/i]and it is repugnant that anyone imply they do, especially as payment for something CPCN did over 4 years ago, which is, in fact, a matter of decades. If The International wanted NEW and LSF to be allies, then they had their chances to keep them. Int made C&G the focus of their foreign policy, they did it at a cost. But you know all this and I chastise you for making me seem to talk down my nose at a hero [/quote] I don't give a crap about LSF. But the NEW situation was a justifiable cancelation and now less than a week later they bandwagon in on their former ally who called them on their crap. But if we all played by your rules no treaty would ever get cancelled for any reason I guess. Does NEW owe INT anything? No. But this is a total rooster move and you know it. The only reason you are supporting it is because Rah Rah death to Doomhouse and C&G rah rah.

I did not make this. [IMG]http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e110/airmike94/cngwar_zpsecbd8221.png[/IMG]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1358891663' post='3083988'] Honey, 2008 is not short-term, it's decades. Int is not CPCN and Int blew its goodwill with any former allies in its quest to abandon anyone that isn't C&G. You made your FA choice, now you live with it like a big boy. [/quote] Drop the crap Schattenmann. You are better than this.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1358880065' post='3083838'] And least we can finally put to bed the idea that any of you are "moralists" and you can all go back to being opportunists like it should be. Some of you I see about 3-4 oA chains in. [/quote] I find myself agreeing with you a lot.

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1358866147' post='3083679'] The funniest part of this is that RV said the exact same thing earlier this week. [/quote] He is consistently insane. Even he will admit that. And it's pretty much irrefutable.

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1358859892' post='3083629'] Someone counter TLR. [/quote] No one will. They are afraid of you. How does it feel to be the most feared alliance in the world?

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1358859472' post='3083624'] Don't worry, you won't have to wait long. [/quote] What my spanish cat friend said.

Despicable really. But as valid reason as any. Give them hell INT. I love the "I know how much you wanted this" posts. It's been all of what...a week? If NEW hadn't violated their treaty with INT it never would have been cancelled. Even though it should have been.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1358857113' post='3083610'] Yet here you stand, side by side with the enemy you so utterly wanted to destroy. Guess personal convictions is not one of your strong traits. I'll see you on the other side, though I won't be taking any pleasure in it if I come up against you. [/quote] Nor will I.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1358855960' post='3083602'] I remember a certain leader of Ronin who at the time wanted to see nothing but the demise of a certain group of alliances, seems opinions drastically change upon the changing of AA's. Maybe I'm just getting Sentimental. [/quote] Sadly, I am not in Ronin anymore and I have treaty obligations. If you have noticed, I haven't exactly defended the actions that lead to this war.

[quote name='nutkase' timestamp='1358843362' post='3083486'] I remember a time you used to sing a very different tune. Too bad [/quote] What different tune? That I will defend my bloc who had 17 alliances declare on half of it? That I will call BS on things that I think are BS? I haven't changed much. Maybe a bit of old guy syndrome but other than that....I am one of the most consistent people here.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1358837157' post='3083372'] Just curious as to whether you'd been on the losing side of one of the Karma onward 90+ day nuke fests. [/quote] So is this a "your oppression" was worse than "my oppression" contest we have going on? Because it doesn't serve either of us well to go on like that.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1358836319' post='3083345'] Honestly curious, have you lost a war since WoTC? [/quote] Lets see....GW3, UJW, noCB....lost a bunch of "diplomatic border skirmishes" with Continuum....spent the better part of 2 years behind a diplomatic black curtain where people were going around telling people they would be attacked or dropped if they signed with the alliance I was in. That enough experience for you?

I've been dead under a curbstomp more times than I can count and it doesn't scare me.

[quote name='rabonnobar' timestamp='1358834202' post='3083261'] If there were in-game declarations, you may have a point, but there weren't. It was clearly bad/misleading/erroneous wording that was subsequently corrected. [/quote] Yeah. No. Posting a DoW is the single most important thing alliance leadership does. If the wording is screwed up that is on them and they pay the consequences. No mulligans. This isn't golf.

[quote name='Quiziotle' timestamp='1358833964' post='3083244'] The Equilibrium Doctrine: after declaring war on any number of alliances, you can reverse time and declare war on a completely different set of alliances [/quote] This. It has never been acceptable in the past. It shouldn't be now.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1358833208' post='3083205'] First DH side was complaining about the lack of diplomacy and CB coming from the other side, now they're complaining about this war being a curbstomp... In fact their hypocrisy know no bounds, when they were the ones doing the curbstomps I never saw they being against it. [/quote] You mistake our reminders of a double standard for whining. No one is whining. Bring it on. This is going to hurt more than you think it is.