Rafael Nadal

Good luck Lee, I'll miss ya.

Shouldn't votes for LUE and Vanguard be combined? >_>

See ya Hoo. Remember, we're just an hour and a half of OC/SD traffic away from each other.

They're just playing hard to get. Also, diplomat teams, lol.

Citadel: Solutions Oriented Bloc'ing Made Easy Lol, I don't really care. Put Reyne in gov't and I still don't really care. Argent came around notifying people who they thought might have had actual issues with Reyne joining them, to which I had none. I was just giving you guys a hard time. Although, I'm kinda curious why Reyne gets a second chance, but not the membership which supported policies of OG's gov't by electing the leaders OG had.

Congrats on being able to keep Reyne in Citadel.

Are you conceding that Vanguard didn't make any counter-offer terms? Right, those terms acknowledged both Legion's and Uni's diplomatic failures. Legion refused to apologize for the initial attack, which is why those terms weren't accepted. Really trying to drive home some point about Echelon and ourselves are we? Our treaty has been effectively suspended ever since Echelon joined 1V. Echelon was quite aware of our disdain for their close company, and that we would not fight to help 1V. Echelon also knows that they're disliked by pretty much all of our other allies. Despite this, we did not cancel our treaty, only informally suspended it, understanding that we were so opposite ally-wise that it was virtually impossible for us to fight a war on the same side. Btw, the terms offered to Echelon kept our treaty, just as a fyi.

That was not Vanguard's counter-offer. I should know, I was running Vanguard for all intents and purposes during that war. That offer was already on the table, which is why I worked off those terms. Edit: I know about the hard line stance Universalis took before the situation escalated, and I don't blame them. Maybe you have forgotten Konkrage's initial conversation with Tiznoast?

Your timeline is woefully off with trying to connect the very initial talks and our entrance into the war. Also, I don't recall the 50 mil in reps, and I'm not going to switch computers to look because even if that number was thrown out, it was quickly done away with. The talks failed over some disagreement and possible misunderstanding about the terms which were: Your attempt to spin that whole debacle into us supporting some multiple zi stance is on one hand laughable, and on the other, insulting. I'm torn between brushing this off as just a blowhard trying to stir the pot, and actually taking this seriously.

A fine upgrade.

This is disappointing.

Josef Thorne

What happened to Dementual? Edit: Nevermind, found him. I guess I thought he was gov't.

I don't quite understand all the outrage over this. Rok was getting flack here on the boards for supposed insane reps figures that they were pushing. He said, she said arguments don't get very far usually, and thus in order to squash this, asked those vocally pushing the criticism to show proof of the crime. I'm not following where everybody is pissed off about this. Anyways, good on Rok and good on LM.

I enjoyed the satire of the post, but it provides no point, and thus nothing to refute or retort against.

If they're interested, I'm sure they could approach some of us on the NPO front and try to work it out. I have a good idea of how much damage/how many cycles of war they could expect. Oh, and by us, I don't mean myself personally.

Whether or not we on the NPO front actually extract all the peace mode reps is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that for 5 days, NPO had a glorious chance to secure lenient peace terms. Even if we don't get the peace mode reps, any reps payment will now be higher for NPO. They plainly do not have the opportunity to secure the same low reps numbers as they did during the 5 day penalty free window.

Is getting 100 trillion 4 months down the line very important? No, it's not. If you think the whole premise behind this was to cleverly excavate more money from NPO, you're quite mistaken.

We're not in this war as a profiteering adventure. If we were, we would have set high base reps amounts, probably along the lines that you thought of earlier in this topic.

Even if 3 months down the road, NPO finally relents, and Karma decides not to enforce to the letter, and even waive a portion of the peace mode terms, NPO will still be paying more in reps than if they came out now and received their terms.

When we offer peace terms? That presumes NPO eventually decides to come out of peace mode. You'll be receiving terms if/when NPO decides to come out of peace mode, thus following the proper procedure to procuring peace terms. I said haggle because most times alliances ask for certain terms to change, or for alternatives to certain terms. Y is not a variable as you are implying.

They have the money. They have several nations with well over a billion in warchests.

We have discussed peace terms. If you're going to hold out and test our will, then I bid you good luck. Also, Y is a known quantity, just not by you. Y is more of an if/then statement. If you comply by X terms, then you get Y terms. You must comply with X before you can get to Y. Comply with X, and we can all come to the table and haggle over Y.

I see that Vladimir has completely ignored the fact that Londo and I have both hinted at how light the base reps figure is.

From the last set of terms actually written down in one place (admittedly could be slightly out of date, though it shouldn't be grossly) your estimation is quite high. Theoretically though, the total figure could get there if NPO does not comply with the peace mode terms. As far as objectives, I'll give you a main theme: Pacifica's top tier nations, many of which still have billions of dollars in warchests (we've done loads of spy operations, we know warchest sizes), and many of which have completely avoided entering the fray in the war. There is a common feeling that these top nations have not been damaged enough, if at all, for us to feel Pacifica as a whole have been damaged enough. We're not looking to ZI them all. We are, however, looking to put them through a few rounds of war, 2-3 most likely, just to ensure they actually receive some damage. If they come out of peace mode now, and take their 2-3 rounds of wars, peace can be achieved relatively soon (as opposed to if NPO continues to not comply with the peace mode terms) and NPO can get on with rebuilding and paying their comparatively light terms.