Rafael Nadal

i mad

Ahhh, I love the smell of cancellations in the (very early) morning. Congrats on tidying up your treaty obligations, well, kinda obligations since they're PIAT's.

By the looks of this announcement, I wouldn't say they "need" to.

Congrats.

I greatly enjoyed the contents of this topic.

You are truly a binger of lulz. Congrats.

Is every leak in CN now automatically spying?

OUT doesn't promote anything except a ridiculous feeling of security, since it protects you from attack from other Orange alliances, no matter if you deserve to be attacked or not. To even begin to classify OUT as economic would be a gross mistake. As we've said, OUT is not the sole vehicle for relations with other Orange alliances; I'm very confident we still have the ability to build and maintain relations with Orange alliances, in the same manner we have relations with Aqua, Blue, Purple, etc alliances.

I don't mind the talk about OST in the topic. Ya'll can talk about for as long as you like, I was just pointing out that it had nothing to do with our leaving OUT, as I believe that point had been muddied by several posters responding to me.

And I took issue with OUT's response then.

That's different than hankering for an intra-sphere conflict. Yes, if an OUT member attacks an ally of mine, they can expect to be retaliated against. Yes, if one of my allies makes a solid case for activating an aggression clause against an OUT member, they can expect to be hit by my alliance. Being Orange does not entitle you to a papal dispensation for your actions. Alliances on Orange are just as responsible for their policies and actions as any other alliance on any other sphere in CN.

Where have we stated our desire for conflict within the sphere?

I don't want to be a part of anything that only serves to artificially mask the consequences of a disagreement. Seems to me the main point of OUT should be to bridge or heal, in order to actually bring Orange closer together, but that's probably why I just took us out of this treaty, and the rest are still in it.

This. I mean earlier in this topic TOP boasted about all their in-house trade circles, virtually allowing them to switch spheres without much hassle. I don't think OUT helped them get all their in house trade circles. OUT has done nothing out of the ordinary to help the sphere grow. Tech deals, trade circles, etc are all driven by the general members of the alliances. There have been no real economic directives or plans from OUT. I don't hold a burning desire to be a part of an ODP bloc.

OST is completely separate from OUT, and had absolutely nothing to do with why we left OUT. Not once did the word Senate ever get written when I discussed with my fellow government the prospects of leaving OUT. You all can argue about the Senate and whatnot, but don't somehow confuse the Senate having anything to do with why we've withdrawn from OUT.

It is. It's most common attribute though is acting as an NAP, so we commonly refer to it as the NAP.

That's not what I meant. We don't see eye to eye on things a lot of the time, so I would never expect any GOD members to hail us, "because we're Vanguard".

Lol, thanks Dan. I always enjoyed arguing/discussing with you, even though it was oft in opposition.

To make it easier to find, here is your requested open discussion on OUT, Buller. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1850354

I will oblige you. I will edit in my posts from the OUT boards, which you should have access to I believe, since these posts were in the Embassy section (I'm not sure if general members could see the embassies). This was what I originally responded to in one of the embassies: This is my response: This is a post of mine from a different embassy. Some of the context might not make complete sense, since it's been plucked from the middle of a discussion, but I'm sure you can discern a general feeling from it:

I don't think Vanguard would ever receive a straight hailfest from GOD. Would you like for me to post my criticisms of OUT, and then see what common themes arise?

Mixoux was RnR, and involved in OUT for a while. He's not some random GOD member.

The specifics were not important, the general idea behind it was. If it wasn't IRON attacking OV, it could have been TORN attacking Gramlins in some sort of effort to keep TOP at bay.

What? Why are you continuing to harp on Senate seats? I have written walls of text on the OUT boards about things I did not like, situations and reactions I have taken issue with. I think I have mentioned the Senate once. Here, let me quote myself on everything I've said about the Senate, in regards to Vanguard leaving: That is all I've said about the Senate. That is one tiny part of a mini expose on my distaste for OUT and how OUT has been used and/or not used.

I did not mention Senate seats as a reason for us leaving OUT, seeing as the senate agreement is separate from OUT. I did say that having the Senate separate from OUT removes one of the valid reasons for OUT's existence. Are you, by chance, masked to see the gov't parts of OUT? Actually, just the embassy part of OUT's boards is sufficient. If you can see the embassy boards, read them, and then come back to me with the same conclusion. Until that point, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're just not privy to all the same information, and thus it's unfair to judge you harshly.