TehChron

Have fun, guys!

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323052906' post='2862945'] Your whole point about how I supposedly burned you revolves around how I joined NSO only to sell you out. I did no such thing, although I'm amused that you've held a grudge against me for so long without me realising it. [/quote]Um...who said that? I didn't. I just said you burned me when I stuck my neck out for your sake. I never actually went into details, but if that's how you remember it, then maybe I forgot something too?

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323052064' post='2862919'] Believe it or not I don't follow everything that happens in NSO. I didn't know you had switched boards recently. Frankly though I know my own history better than you do. I remember you tried to talk me into joining NSO, I even had talks with some of your guys on IRC, but then I decided not to. I dare you to provide any evidence to the contrary. IRC logs, anything you like. In the end though, it doesn't matter. I don't much care. You don't like me for whatever reason. That's fine. I don't have a particularly high opinion of you either. [/quote] The story of your time here is one of people giving you chances only to get nothing but barbs in return, Fran. That the only thing you're disputing is whether or not you were ever an NSO member (oh how terrible!) rather than the fact that you burned me and I got burned on your behalf is kind of telling. Well, whatever, it's nice to see some things never change. You're really the only person Ive ever truly looked down upon in Cybernations, Fran. The only one. And the only one I've ever really had a true grudge against. The only one. Continue to talk about how you don't care, though, Fran. That kind of narcissism was always, has always, and always will, be your problem. I hope to god maybe someday you'll outgrow it and have a happy life, because narcissism is a very lonely thing. Have fun in real life, Fran.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323051305' post='2862891'] I didn't. Link me to my application on your boards, you won't find it. [/quote] How clever of you since we've just switched boards and have none of that kind of thing to link to...? Yeah, you're obsessed with being in the right all the time. I get it. If you're going to go and talk about how you have no regrets, don't be annoyed when someone points out a grudge they still have unresolved against you. Well, I wouldn't really call it a grudge at that point, more like a lingering headache. I'm far from the only person you've burned and then forgot it ever happened in favor of your next crusade, and frankly I don't feel like going through the effort of trying to meet some kind of burden of proof to accuse you of anything. It's been 2 years since, and I honestly just don't like you. That's what happened, I've said what I wanted to say, and now I can look forward to the soon to come day where I can finally not have any more reminders of how much of a headache you've caused me when browsing these forums. Have fun in real life, Fran.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1323050561' post='2862872'] I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never joined NSO as either Francesca or Kalasin. Do you have me confused with someone else? [/quote] You did for 3 weeks back in 2009 or so, right before you rerolled. A pretty ugly 3 weeks it was for me. But...yeah, Im really not that surprised you don't remember. Youre not the type to.

Its sad to see you go, Fran, but you are going to go and take up a real life, and having done that myself over and over again over the years I cant really say anything but "good job". But during your time in the NSO your temper and pride came back to bite me in the ass so many, many times with people who put their trust in me, and then you left the alliance, with me holding the bag. You have never apologized, and honestly, Im not looking for one. So while you may be leaving in a classy manner, and you certainly are upgrading your investment of time, I don't wish you anything except to not come back. You give me a headache, and every time you come to mind you always will. Good luck in real life, Francesca, I hope you don't look back. Yeah, I can be petty too outside of acting. What a shock.

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1323025345' post='2862418'] As for TehChron and Kalasin: Keep up the good work. It's every day I thank Admin you two aren't in Pacifica and remind me of everything I hate about CN know it all wannabes like you two. Its not a matter of being intelligent or not intelligent. It is not the frustrated school teachers in you about grammar or spelling. It is the fact you actually think, believe and promote you are intelligent and have any sort of prominence in the game. For keeping yourselves in the know and on the cusp as you imply with your posts, you two are completely lost, condescending and generally pathetic. Each of you does such a great disservice to your alliance it causes me to feel immediate pity for them and simple loathing for you. I gave a simple example, I didn't say it was "why", I said it was what I could see. I could see validity in it, I could see cause and reason. To say otherwise is fooling yourself. I never played victim (are you seriously going back to that one, get new material Fran, don't make me actually take some time to completely own you again, walk away). I don't believe in victims. So while I can understand your need to give me crap, I am simply not going to acknowledge either of you from this point, so enjoy the blathering of your bs. [/quote]Here's the irony, Brehon. I don't have any connections, or informants, or any of that nonsense. I get by on the same thing you do, reasoning skills. Accusing me of an inflated sense of importance, or worth is laughable to anyone that pays attention, and just further belies how you let your assumptions determine reality for you. Now then, do your alliance a favor and keep your mouth shut before you shove your foot in there anymore. This is a good thing for them and they deserve better than to see you ruin it for them by acting like a toad at the bottom of the well. [quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1323027929' post='2862442'] Having them both on ignore does wonders, they're not worth anyone's time (not a hurrdurr they're irrelevant post, mainly they are terrible at civil debate) [/quote] Are you still seriously carrying a grudge over that time I called you a blatant hypocrite during BiPolar? That's sad. I wasn't even being serious, and told you as much. Besides, civil debate is boring, everyone always loves to romanticize jousting matches, but really its only two guys on horseback trying to ram each other with long poles to see who falls off first. Man.

/discussion

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1322995231' post='2862117'] Quite so. Whether or not Fark's move really will change the treaty web or result in a different outcome for them in this war, I am glad they did this because it was a surprising move which alleviated a little of the monotony of this community. Frankly though if they're hoping this will swing things in their favour, it won't. I'm not sure FAN cares though. [/quote] [i]sigh[/i] See, this is what people find so annoying. First you ask clarification on what exactly the move constitutes, and then a little bit afterwards you act like you know exactly what you were talking about all along. Frankly speaking, you're no better than Brehon. You've completely misread what Ive been saying this entire time. Fark's move is [i]not[/i] about changing the treaty web. It's far more cynical and short-term than that. Sheesh. Why do people like to project motives around here, rather than just analyze the facts of the situation and figure out what explanation fits the pattern that the facts present? Enjoying the breath air is fresh and all, but that kind of sentiment rings hollow if you don't recognize the act for what it is. Now I may be wrong, and therefore making my statement ironic, but the sentiment itself is still right, at least. So, Fran, a little service. When coming to a conclusion, assume that the people acting are intelligent enough to plan out the repercussions of their actions. In that light, how on earth does this move translate into changing the treaty web? Please explain that conclusion of yours.

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1322993975' post='2862101'] I say precisely what I think on these forums. That doesn't win me many friends, a fact of which I am well aware. Decide for yourself how accurate you think my analysis is. [/quote] Well, I think it's less your ability to place your foot in your mouth and moreso your ability to burn people that stick their neck out for you that reflects badly on you, Fran. That being said, this discussion isnt about you, it's about...Oh look, [quote]I've been pondering this move for 24 hours now, and I still can't figure out why FARK & friends chose this route. [/quote]They forgot that some people can pick their friends. Well, it's certainly a different tact, but it was definitely more appealing than the railroad that had already been prepared ahead of time. Nothing to do now but see how the dominoes fall from here on out. Heh.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1322991582' post='2862068'] I saw him in action over a long period. He was very probably the most all-around competent operative the NPO had throughout his time there, and he was certainly their best emperor. I think he's less remembered than Moo and Ivan because he was significantly less notorious than the two of them. This is for the very good reason that he was able to keep the NPO in good position while generating a minimum amount of dislike toward that alliance, an impressive accomplishment for such a active, realpolitik alliance, and one that Moo and Ivan were unable to achieve themselves. [/quote] Er...While you may be right in Moo's case, Ivan actively curried dislike towards the NPO's hyperpower state in the leadup to the GPW. Ivan, were that his style, is very much capable of keeping on good terms with friends and allies. And there's nothing certain about Dilber being the best Pacifican Emperor. His reign, as was Ivan's, had it's successes built upon the labors of his support staff. The fact that only a few people got my Mighty Pump reference a few days ago serves to further illustrate my point. What im getting at largely is this; Dilber did the Order just as well as IE as he did it while the actual Emperor. Ivan, however, gave the NPO and it's culture a solid foundation and personality. That's something that Dilber, for all his skills, simply has never been able to do. Youre welcome to your opinion, though.

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322988358' post='2862036'] You're saying I'm not a condescending jackass? What the $%&@ man. I thought we were cool. [/quote] Oh no, you are, but this discussion only has one condescending jackass (excepting you), so thats why I had to explain it that way, for the sake of clarity. Hope that clears things up.

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322987677' post='2862030'] What else could you be thinking of? You believe that Fark did it thinking that people on our side wouldn't defend us because of conflicting treaties with the other side. Which sounds right, and is not necessarily mutually exclusive with Brehon's theory. And you do really need to justify yourself, otherwise you just come off like a condescending jackass. Unless, that was what you desired. [/quote] It wasn't about people not defending you. It was, in fact, not about Pacifica as an end, but simply targeting the NPO as the most logical means towards their end. That's what I meant by the major flaw in Brehon's assumption. But I'm not too worried about coming across as a condescending jackass, considering the circumstances and people involved in this discussion (excepting you). It rather suits me just fine, to be quite honest, heh.

Edit: Random double post

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322985408' post='2861989'] In trying to destroy Pacifica, Fark has given Pacifica an unbelievably huge political boost. Unbelievable. The amount of poor decisions your crew has made since the last war continues to astound me. [/quote] It's almost as if cloistering themselves into a political vacuum and then relying purely on themselves for awareness of the political situation has backfired against them somehow. Almost. But that isn't possible, as all savvy politicos on Planet Bob ignore the cesspool that is public political discourse to great success.[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322986627' post='2862007'] The difference is that you don't actually justify why you believe Fark is doing this to bypass treaties, whereas Brehon creates a pretty solid logical narrative. You're just saying that he's off because you think it's hilarious. [/quote] Not only that, but because I actually believe so. And I did acknowledge that the logical narrative is sound in it's own right, just that it has critical flaws in it's underlying assumptions which completely undermine his conclusion. Moreover, since Im simply pointing out an inaccuracy rather than obsessing over explaining how right I am, I just don't feel a need to explain myself other than referencing a hint which points pretty blatantly towards the conclusion (and likely correct one, at that) that I had reached. And just as an aside, I don't think Fark did it to bypass treaties in the way you're probably thinking, but, once again, refer to what I quoted from SeasonsofLove.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322982716' post='2861944'] While you're right like always, you forgot to mention to him that he used the word "its" wrong. [/quote] Even I have limits to how much of a hypocrite Im willing to be. [quote] /rolls eyes I could write and write on it. It was an answer to Fran and I gave the very simple base on such a thing. If you need to read more into that, you need a new hobby Chron[/quote]What in Admin's name are you talking about? What thing? What is "it"? From what I can tell there are two potential "it"'s, neither of which are really clear. And what is "that" supposed to mean? Why would I need to read more into it anyway? I can't even decipher what you're referring to in the first place, so it's not like I could if I actually felt like it.

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1322973362' post='2861474'] Really Fran? I mean I see the rationale (its flawed but I see it). Its pretty hard for most to tell where NPO is and who really likes us, because frankly that list is still small. So if you were going to go out on an alliance, why not go out on one that you already don't like and will generally gather the least sympathy so potential counters are reduced. Additionally if you wanted to draw in some others based on ties, NPO has just enough ties to attempt to draw people out. Really its not a bad move... its just a few months late. Do all of this and in some offshoot show some support to an alliance that you are tied to that is becoming more and more isolated... it works. And then if we drop all the theory craft, follow suit of a war, pick an old issue and end boredom. [/quote]Nooo....Actually, you're way off. Hilariously off. And you have cliff notes a few comments above you. [quote]Unfortunately, Fark, it is not 2007 any more, and so a move this transparent will not work out the way you so intend because alliances now have this habit of ignoring one of two conflicting treaties in a war to do what they want, or simply ignoring the first treaty activated in order to be on the side they prefer.[/quote] So while you certainly have a working basis for why someone would go for what the immediate repercussions are, you're stumbling a bit on the basis of "Why NPO" and "why a move like this in the first place?", which are rather important to note when trying to analyze why someone would undertake such a maneuver.

[quote name='Dilber' timestamp='1322897966' post='2860394'] Yeah, WUT and Q really weren't that big. [/quote] I don't know about Q, but the World Unity Treaty was the brainchild of The Mighty Pump. Dunno what you're trying to pull, trying to take credit for his genius.

[quote name='green muffins' timestamp='1322813960' post='2859233'] looks like nso is in trying times too, they have two people with opposite opinions about an alliance [/quote] Who are these people two people?

This is amazing for just so many reasons. My condolences go out towards GOD in these trying times.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1322809265' post='2859153'] Excellent post. The funny thing here is that so many people are buying into this. You can't teach personality, and you can't teach ego. People latching on to Ivan's underbelly like a remora is only feeding his already monsterous ego (I always picture Tygaland's avatar as a perfect representation of it). Noone seems to care that his desire to maintain his public image has long-since departed. The fame remains, the legend remains, and once in a while his ego swoops down on the masses for feeding time. Next he'll be having you all sacrifice virgins to appease him. I'm safe, but whoa, nelly. Look out, guys. [/quote] Actually, I have entirely different reasons for wanting to partake in it. And he's offering lessons on how to apply those traits moreso than actually advertising being able to teach them to potential students. That being said, nippy, it's really fun going back through my old classics, if only for the groan inducing chuckles. You should try it.

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1322802629' post='2859000'] I'm curious about your unique rhetorical perspective, which is almost entirely why I joined your alliance for a significant period of time, and will be applying as soon as an application becomes available. As a recent college student, I sincerely hope you strategically begin courses after "finals season." If I recall correctly, the forum only allows one to view his or her posts from the past year. As such, my better posts would be practically impossible to find. Perhaps an interview process is in order? [/quote] You could just do the legwork and dig up the threads yourself. I did (with a big assist from rsoxbronco, good man). Although I think that an interview would likely be disadvantageous to a lot of potential applicants, too.

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1322774777' post='2858467'] Chris Kaos. He played a major role in the original GW peace negotiations, and helped cement the NPO-GATO rivalry. [/quote] He also established the precedent that MDPs supercede NAPs (hey there, RIA). Definitely an interesting character.

I think its been tried before, with little success. I think youd need to at least ensure that it wont be raided, first off. When this has been tried in the past thats kind of been a problem.

If you don't mind me saying, Londo, one of the main benefits of this is not necessarily that the graduates will be an army of Moldavi clones. Rather it will be a class of individuals tested by Ivan to have a skillset and the insight in how to use it to it's maximum effectiveness. All participants are likely to develop their own style during the course, and will implement what they've learned regardless of success or failure. [i]Since it bears repeating, this class likely won't serve as "Moldavism 101", but rather, "manipulation and cunning for dummies" for those who partake in it.[/i] It will be up to those individuals to bring a drive and cunning to their work afterwards. Anyone can agree that Ivan's limitation has always been that he needs a strong support base to succeed (a la Pacifica vs the NSO), but those who graduate will have their own power bases and sphere of influence to utilize in testing their newfound skillset. For the prospect of seeing those results alone, this is a highly worthwhile endeavor.