TehChron

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1324711114' post='2885487'] I think you're being generous for no particular reason, or you're just repeating your point because it's your point. What was creative about signing a hundred treaties between SF and C&G? What was creative about forming PB? What was creative about rolling TPF for spying while they were at war? What was creative about ... anything that happened after Karma? This is an honest question; I'm old enough in the game to be jaded, and I don't remember everything that happens, but, honestly, I can't think of anything that struck me as creative in the past 3 years. There have been interesting developments, but nothing creative. [i]Ooh, another bloc! Oh! And now its members just signed 4 MDPs with alliances in another bloc! How marvelous! I say, why hasn't there been a war yet?[/i][/quote] If I had to pin it down I'd say the former. I mean, the concept of Supergrievances could be construed as an attempt at creativity, you know, if the people at in the top political class were trying to outsource political antagonism while also maintaining their dominance. PB and the TPF war were by no means creative. And Grub tried to be creative with BiPolar. I will give credit where it's due. He just failed at it. I'll also say the Knights of Ni! raid was original in it's open-faced audacity. And I'm sure that there are a dozen or so smaller examples that don't come to mind because they never really went anywhere. But like I said, Im probably just being generous. [quote]For me, the post-Karma era ended with the formation of Pandora's Box. The post-Karma era was defined by its unprecedented freedom: of association, of sovereignty, of ideology, to declare war without bringing half the world in, to create any little alliance that popped into our heads, the closest to inter-alliance anarchy that we've been in a long time. But do cattle run free if the fence is torn down? No, though they may walk past the fence, they still behave as cattle. And so as the dust from the Karma War settled, alliances fell back into the Pax Pacifican mentalities. Pandora's Box and Doom House's formations coupled with the devolutions of C&G and SuperFriends (and later the subservience of PF and Mjolnir) have brought us full circle. Alliances, for so long used to defining themselves by association rather than internal identity, did not know what to do with themselves post-Karma, and they have been overjoyed to stampede back into the comfort of a fence now that it is up again. It is a product of lack of ambition, of self-confidence, and a reliance on outsourcing brains and victory. That is why I formed Cult of Justitia, it is why I will not quit on CoJ.[/quote]The tragedy is that is actually a very reasonable perspective. By that token, the only reason we haven't returned to the pre-karma era is because the role of antagonist has been left empty, and those who are in power now are too afraid of being rallied against should they attempt to take up the mantle. It may or may not be the one truth of the matter, but it's by no means an incorrect viewpoint.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1324677746' post='2885083'] There is no alliance that can afford the kind of cartoonish villainy you people want. The moment somebody prances about like a full-blown, clear as day antagonist they'll be abandoned by allies and murdered by the world. [/quote] I'm saying that using that as an excuse is indicative of the limitations of your own imagined approach. If you can't find allies that are driven more by self-interest or loyalty (the latter of which I hear was the point of CnG), then you're clearly not suited for the role. So don't pursue it. But just because you can't find a way to pull it off doesn't make it impossible. So please, refrain from the absolutist statements. Your approach just hasn't worked to keep anyone entertained, not even yourselves.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1324654212' post='2884868'] Winner, winner, chicken dinner! I paraphrase myself from last week's "CN is dead" thread as an expert in the field: Until alliances develop true ideologies and then base actions and ally-relationships on those ideologies, you will all remain boring and your treaty mess will prevent fast-paced action. The post-Karma Era ended months ago, Chron, as the sun set on the timeframe for alliances to take advantage of the freedom afforded them in the vaccuum left by the devolution of Continuum. Far from your claim otherwise, it is a lack of creativity and an adherence to 2007 modes of play which have brought us to this point[i] once more[/i]. [/quote] People have attempted to be creative, they just haven't done a very good job of it. I consider competency to be paramount in creating an interesting narrative. Moreover, why do you think post-Karma ended months ago? What exactly served as the closing of that period's curtains in your eyes?

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1324626441' post='2884717'] Well you've certainly shown yourself to be quite an expert over the previous three pages. You've got it all figured out. [/quote] Sarcasm works better when you're implying something that is actually ironic, rather than simple snapping. And I, by no means, pretend to have it all figured out. But I think I know what I'm talking about better than you, and certainly don't assume that I'm right despite not knowing what I'm talking about. Once again: Good stuff. Keep it up. It's pretty funny.

[quote name='Krack' timestamp='1324625594' post='2884707'] It's because you're irrelevant. You're not a power player on either side (and make no mistake, the "sides" have been the same for about 5 years now - occassionally someone switches sides, but they are pretty much the same) and you were created out of two alliances that were never a power player on either side. Being a meatshield and dutifully marching off to war does not make you a mover & shaker; all it makes you is Valhalla's replacement when Mjolnir takes it's beating next spring break (summer at the latest). EDIT: TPF was a toadie alliance. PC split off to do it's own thing. It did nothing of note. It absorbed iFOK and basically became TPF; you once again are a toadie alliance. They don't write books about the toadies. [/quote] lol Wo-how-ow-wooooow. You know what? I'm not even going to start off on the numerous things you've gotten wrong in this comment and your previous one, and am just going to let the people who you're actually lobbing stuff at handle this. This is pretty funny. Good stuff, I'm enjoying it.

[quote name='Micheal Malone' timestamp='1324615607' post='2884568'] I can't believe I read this entire thread, and not one mention of NG... we need to go to war even more frequently? [/quote] I only wish it were that simple.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1324613398' post='2884525'] Then what about Xiph? [/quote] Iunno, I wasn't around for his heyday, and while we were screwing around with him over at the NSO he never struck us as particularly impressive. Maybe it was because he associated himself with people like StarcraftMazter or something? Who knows. In any case, considering our Beer Review, it's hard to take the guy seriously after we pulled something like that over him. So maybe that's more personal bias than anything? *shrug*

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1324612847' post='2884514'] Except I don't think that was that interesting. It would have been if Grub would have actually done something, but once again nothing happened. [/quote] Yes, that's why Grub is a terrible example of antagonist. [i]But[/i], it was that kind of action that was so interesting. From Londo it was out of left field, perfectly in characer, hilariously audacious, and potentially catastrophic. Even if it was arguably dumb as hell, it was still interesting to watch unfold [i]as everything played out in reaction to Londo's actions[/i]. The closest comparison Grub has is BiPolar, and he epically bungled that opportunity. See what Im getting at, here? It's about being able to drive the narrative by their own actions, and the rest of us being caught up in it.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1324611712' post='2884490'] Ok skimmed through the thread and only saw one mention of Grub. None of Xiph, so my question still stands. I agree with you that people should take more risks, but risk taking is frowned upon in CN. Upset the status quo and you become the next target (Xiph and Grub as prime examples). It's true MK by pre-empting NPO took a very interesting move, but if no one rises to stand up against them then it doesn't make things interesting at all. I'm going to go out on a limb and call some people out really quickly. Take VE for instance, last war it became blatantly obvious before the war was over SF had pissed off too many people. If VE wanted to do something interesting they could have very easily pretended to be disgusted by MK's pre-empt and saved themselves the trouble they have faced this war. We all know VE and MK don't like each other, but on the OWF we see this whole "Let's not discuss this in public. Let's settle our differences behind closed doors." Going even farther, anyone remember when MK and TOP signed their treaty. Everyone was like "roll Poland!", we all knew what it meant. When MK was publicly asked in that thread about it though they said "we never said anything about Polar". Why can't we air our hates out publicly. Wouldn't that make things interesting? (sorry long rant.) [/quote] I've covered Grub already, anyway, I believe I already mentioned this, but the issue at hand isn't one of people taking risks or being original. It's a simple manner of people with personas that are interesting to watch, and are capable of leveraging the political narrative in a direction that sucks the rest of it in. The anti-villainy of CnG-MK-SF-DH has just not been as interesting as the out and out evil hegemony that the NPO represented during their reign. That's a concrete fact, not just some random inference. The problem is as simple as allowing capable people to have the tools to do what they want. This isn't done exclusively by means of them possessing an overwhelming military advantage, but, it can also be accomplished by having the backing of friends that would have their back no matter what the circumstances. Like Londo had with the Knights of Ni! raid.

[quote name='Schmoo' timestamp='1324609556' post='2884465'] I give this assignment an A. You have put put enough thought into your post to actually spark debate. Looking at Planet Bob from a purely scientific stance, I find this period of evolution fascinating. Yes, I agree politics are a bit stale right now, but the raw science of Bob is still very interesting. Planet Bob may never again be a giant, but I am confident we will survive and continue to evolve. Especially if leaders like you continue to do whatever you can to make Bob interesting for YOU. [/quote] Thank you, I'll put this grade with the other Gold Stars I have on my wall. I really appreciate it.

Then don't? If you can't comprehend my point by reading on your own, then what I'm saying isn't for you. Now to actually clarify why I'm saying this: What I'm trying to do is [i]not to complain about why I'm bored[/i]. Far from it. Stuff like this is how I entertain myself, and once this ceases to be so, Ill go off and take another hiatus. No, what this is about, which is what I said at the very beginning of the OP, is an attempt to clarify what so many people love to dance around hypothesizing about, which is "why the game seems so much less interesting than it used to be". I think I did a decent enough job of describing that, even setting aside the poor structure of that wall of text (lol at having to nitpick on that point as if it even matters). Now then, [i]this guy[/i] says I merely claim that politics has been boring. Far from it. I, in fact, went so far as to define [i]why[/i] politics is boring. I already take that fact for granted, a viewpoint which, while your mileage may vary, is the majority one. So what if I'm challenged to try and take the stage? I freely admit I would do a terrible job of it. And unlike people like Crymson or Grub, I'm self-aware enough to know my limits and to not try to steal the spotlight from those better suited for it. If the concept of treating the game as a stage and acting in the manner best suited to make it entertaining is foreign to you, then I'm afraid that what I'm getting at may be a little over your head, IYIyTh. So while I appreciate that you finally took the time to read the OP, I guess you still failed to really grasp it. Oh well. I make my own entertainment. Your provocations do little more than further serve that end for me, as well.

When did I tell people to worship people that adhered to my style of wall of text throwing, then? You can see why I would be doubtful of you having read it, in that case. Unless you did read it, and what I said went over your head. In which case, I apologize for being so callous to you.

Sorry if Im coming in on a random tangent, but I think that (as I've detailed elsewhere) the problem is not one that can be related to game mechanics in any way. Rather it is an issue of the leading political players being boring and undynamic. Which leads to significantly fewer people being interested, which spirals into fewer people caring to participate despite the lack of incentive of becoming a dominant alliance leader. The thing that the past success of the game's heyday had going for it was a passionate, engaging political narrative. Until one develops, all other hypothesizing is irrelevant, because that's the only way to retain most players in the long term. The average player is not ambitious. Attempting to cater exclusively to the desires of the ambitious in the hopes of that being a cure-all is mistaken, and therefore overreaches based upon a flawed premise. Sorry if you disagree, but stuff like seniority and wonder counts don't matter if you find the actual narrative of events interesting enough to play regardless. That is paramount.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1324589967' post='2884240'] [b]Not sure that teaching people they should worship people who make terribly long and poorly structured posts in an OOC section of the forum will do to engage the members you claim to want to reach.[/b] Especially when they can be summed up in about a sentence or less. Those members are on other alliance's boards, in the embassy forums. Not on the OOC section of the CN forum, where everyone knows everyone and the discussion is about as engaging as talking to a wall. This war and its origins are proof positive. Oh, and I think I'm supposed to fire one of these back somewhere: Teaching implies you were ever good at it to begin with. Engage them, or...claim to have influenced a greater movement that happened due to cyclical changes in military alliances rather than personal involvement. I know which one I will be doing and continue to do [/quote]I'm not entirely certain that you actually read the OP, actually. I even included a tl;dr and bolded the especially important parts of it for easy perusing. So I suppose I'll have to fire back one as well: Those who can not read, should not talk. When you have something prepared other than a stock response, I will be happy to continue this discussion with you.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1324589147' post='2884232'] I'm literally years ahead of you. [/quote] That's great. You know the phrase, "Those who can't do, teach", right? Totally applies to me. If I were capable of making the narrative any good, I'd be doing it myself, rather than throwing it out into the open in the hopes that the actually capable would take note and act upon it. I truly hope that you become capable of doing something other than playing the role of your own personal ChairmanHal, though. It'd be more interesting that way.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1324588732' post='2884225'] Less talk, more do. [/quote] I agree completely. Go get started already.

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1324581237' post='2884160'] You could say a lot of things about Grub, but boring? [/quote]I agree with the rest of what you said, but the reason why I left that unspecified in the OP was due to it being [i]yet another tangent[/i]. Grub is indeed a boring antagonist. Because he's boring to watch. The only people he ever got to care about his moves were his direct allies and those he directly moved to piss off. Mind you, this was at the height of his influence, during the period where Frostbite existed. If I were to underpin the [i]root cause for why Grub is a failed antagonist, it would have to be that his style of antagonism was almost purely reactionary[/i]. Which is why I say his style is forced, since it lacked a real initiative. Take, for example, the tension that was brought about due to the placing of MK into an awkward position. What exactly were those situations, again? We have, on the one hand, almost exclusively the NSO acting like the bunch of incendiary jackasses that we were (Recruiting from GPA, the whole provoking SF thing on a semi-regular basis). On the other hand, we have Grub's massive outcry over Londo and his raid on the Knights of Ni! Those were his big things in the role of antagonist. The culmination of all that, his epic backstab during BiPolar, wasn't even real antagonism. It was just a betrayal. Of almost literally everyone that the New Polar Order was tied to, except MK, and it destroyed the Polars credibility. Again, that wasn't real antagonism. It was just self-destructive. And even that was reactive, since it was based on Grub's own grudge towards stuff TOP did years ago as revenge against Sponge [i]that no one really gave a !@#$ about anymore[/i]. Sure there was some outraged flash at the random twist, but it wasn't anything particularly groundbreaking except in how absurd the scale of the act was, and even that soon passed from mind, save as an excuse to randomly roll Polar again (which is still boring to watch). To make things worse, all Grub has done since then is brag about how awesome he was for shooting his alliance's long term potential in the foot, squandering all the hard work that had gone into making them a political superpower in the first place. In the end, Grub gained nothing, accomplished nothing, and wasn't even original in doing so. And he and Polaris in general have done nothing since but annoy the rest of us with a single tune of a single grudge between them and TOP. Yeah, Grub is a boring antagonist. He could have done much, much more with what he had. But he didn't. And he hasn't. You're naturally free to disagree, but I don't think I'm wrong here. [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1324581994' post='2884166'] tl;dr except the bolded text Look, within months of this world getting started up, there were over 40k nations. Truth be told there was something like 15k people actually running those 40k nations, there was no naval units, no space-based wonders, no one but an idiot wanted more than 14,999.99 infra (if you could even afford to buy that much), nukes were for the elites and regular people were out of luck, and everyone made sure they put "not inactive!" in their nation bio for fear that a "grave robber" would come by and loot their nation thinking it was abandoned. Yet, everyone likes to romanticize that era. Why? Because good and evil were so clearly defined? No, they weren't, except in propaganda. Because there were more charismatic personalities? Bovine scatology. Yes, there was a time when there were more nation rulers than there are now. The number isn't 1/10 of what it was, 1/4 of what it was as some would make you think in these b.s. threads, the actual number is actually about 1/2 the number. [b]That's still a lot of people capable of doing all sorts of amazingly stupid/brilliant/entertaining things IF YOU ONLY ALLOW YOURSELVES TO DO SO.[/b] Could the mechanics use a tune up? Of course. But the way people friggen WHINE like you took away their dying goldfish and replaced it with a similar, more lively one when changes are made, do you honestly expect more than for Admin to make a minor tweak to the code now and again and close his eyes and pray when he hits the 'Enter' button to execute it? [i]OOC: Threads like this one should be terminated with extreme prejudice. Not just closed, but deleted. They waste bandwidth and Admin made it pretty clear he's not interested in seeing them. Sorry for the rant, but enough is enough.[/i] [/quote] What in the name of Admin does that have to do with the bolded text in the OP? No, in all seriousness. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? Because aside from the rant about complaining about game mechanics, the bolded is the only thing there that is even tangentially related to what I'm talking about. And you're totally agreeing with it. So what gives, exactly?

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1324580536' post='2884155'] Unsurprisingly, the OP, a member of NSO, spends his entire post worshipping Ivan. [/quote] Unsurprisingly, Crymson, an example of a boring antagonist, spends his entire post failing to be interesting. (I spent the post worshiping Londo, btw ) [quote]So we need another superbloc? Watching those crash and burn after they've run out of enemies can be pretty entertaining.[/quote]It's not just an issue of a superbloc or not, but it's one of personalities representing the public face of it. I'm sure if Xiphosis were to step up his game and become well-regarded as some kind of genius tactician or skilled leader or even a competent gofer, he could play that role just as well. Londo, again, is an excellent example of antagonism done right. It's not just an issue of ambition or anything like that, but a matter of people finding what's going on in the political metagame interesting. And far more than private channels ftw, it's simply how the political narrative is presented that encourages or discourages interest. Which is what gives rise to activity and passion and such.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1324573261' post='2884103'] woah woah don't use both hands, you gotta let some others get some strokes in [/quote] Oh, don't worry, it's plenty large for others to join in even with me using both hands. You can get your turn, too, if you'd like. (This is talking about my ego)

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1324556211' post='2884024'] The problem isn't the lack of narratives or grudges or any of that, you flirted with the right issue when you mentioned TOP/Polaris' grudge. [b]People have their grudges/enemies but do nothing proactive to destroy their enemies. They hope that they get to declare on their enemy when war comes around, but if not, who cares.[/b] [b]The best way to win is to have a target alliance and do everything in your power to take them down. Learn from what Pacifica (or Legion even when they found a way to hit NSO) did, isolate the target alliance by allying their allies, build a coalition that will overpower them and their allies, and find a CB to use against them or one of their allies which will drag them into the war as well. [/b] P.S. If anyone wants to help me take down MK, feel free to PM me. I make no secret about my plans but if you wish to remain anonymous I'm sure I can still find a use for you (and no, I don't mean spying). [/quote] I think you're confusing one of many causes for the actual issue. The issue is that the way people are going about doing things [i]is boring[/i], and as a result, people don't take risks in a game [i]even when it could be fun[/i]. There simply aren't enough people that throw caution to the wind and act out on what they want. There are a lot of people that have pretended to and wound up forcing it (hi Grub), but like any forced performance, it's incredibly boring to watch. Again, confusing one symptom for the entire problem. [quote]I summed up in one line what you said in a wall of text.[/quote]If it were that obvious I wouldn't have bothered with a wall of text. That you missed the point despite me saying it repeatedly in pretty blunt terms says a lot.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1324537748' post='2883948'] You make some good points. Some random thoughts: - The reason no one will emerge as a very clear "antagonist" is that most people will either work against you as a threat and/or want to be a protagonist. So taking a very clear antagonist role is almost suicidal.[/quote]Antagonism is simply acting in opposition. I hate to rip off another person's wording (yo, Ivan), but antagonism is not inherently "bad", nor is it inherently "good", either. Walford too, was an antagonist. The only real protagonist in CN is the individual player. They measure themselves against the antagonist forces in CN and that is the drive that causes them to actually work towards opposing those larger-than-life personalities. So antagonism doesn't necessarily have to be suicidal, it just has to be successful. What's important to remember here is [i]that not everyone wants to be a protagonist[/i], some people like to play the anti-hero, or the villain outright. It's simply a matter of lining up aligning interests. Easier said than done, to be sure, but it's nothing all that complex at it's very core. [quote]- There have been some pretty aggressive moves. The preempt of DH, accompanied by "everything must die" rhetoric was one. Ramirus tried to do it in bipolar (though it failed miserably). There are still a reasonable number of alliances willing to start aggressive wars.[/quote] That's why I said it wasn't a problem of originality, but a problem of being interesting or not. The pre-emption of Doomhouse was the clearest example of the "anti-villainy" which has only recently begun to propagate from MK. The repercussions of that have yet to be seen, but that attack was more random than adversarial, I think. But your mileage may vary on that perspective. [quote]- We haven't run out of grudges. Grudges can still be created, and tend to emerge out of each war. We'll see some after this war that will be relevant in the next.[/quote] I'm not saying an end of grudges, but an end to a political narrative defined by these thousands of minor grudges hardly anyone even cares about. [quote]- Wars can always start based on classic CBs. The fact that this one was started/justified on a grudge is unusual.[/quote]Those classic CBs have always been merely a pre-text to act on grudges. So as many have stated already, this was just ignoring the dressing up of this war, rather than going through the whole horse and pony show (is that the proper phrase?) [quote]The part about lacking a larger narrative is very true. I don't see any feasible way to change that. Part of the problem is that almost every active player has been doing this for years. A lot of the culture is well established, and there isn't much that's "new" that can be done. This just a natural phase of the game, most games are more interesting when you're first playing them and doing everything for the first time. [/quote]It's not about something new being done. It's about stuff being done in an interesting manner. We can all agree that a Bi-Polar political spectrum was more interesting than a truly multi-polar one by now, right? So its certainly feasible for people with the capacity to manage it to try and steer the narrative back in that direction. The problem of antagonism is one of personality. And those that have taken center stage for the most part Post-Karma have acted as pretty lackluster antagonists. The worst example of that is, without a doubt, Grub.

[quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1324536461' post='2883931'] People lack ambition these days. [/quote] What does that have to do with what I've said?

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1324536026' post='2883919'] the best part of this post is that you're actually doing ivan's academy thing. [/quote] What a shock, right? That being said, intellectual exercises are always worth pursuing, and I know Ivan's clever enough to come up with good stuff when he gets bored.

I've been noticing a lot of people lately trying to analyze the current state of CN, trying to pinpoint what they feel is wrong with the world and why it is apparently stagnating and frankly...Getting more and more boring as time goes on. I believe I can aptly summarize these numerous comments with the following two quotations: [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1324240655' post='2881340'] these complaints about how CN isn't as good as it used to be aren't as good as they used to be. [/quote] [quote name='admin' timestamp='1295307861' post='2579043'] I'm a fan of the Dallas Cowboys football team. During the regular season the team was having trouble getting wins. They interviewed one of the players and he said, "We go into these team meetings to discuss what's going on with the team. You go in there with an idea of what the problem is, and then everyone starts giving their input, and you leave the meeting with a sense that the problem is much more worse than it really is." That's what these threads have become. Everyone is giving their input on the situation, placing blame all over the place and making the problem seem much worse than it really is all the while resolving nothing. This game is 5 years old. I didn't expect it to last 5 months. We still have 20,000 playing the game. Enjoy. [/quote] So having covered those particular bases, Im [i]not[/i] going to complain about mechanical problems, or coding issues, or balance or retention or anything like that. The problem is simple, as referenced in the second quote. The simple fact of the matter is that the political metagame has become boring. No matter how you look at it, the CN political community has the largest impact upon player retention, moreso than even the basic game mechanics. I am indeed taking this for granted. Since that can be explained more in depth later on if people wish for clarification of that particular viewpoint. In the larger scheme of what I'm getting at, let's set that aside for now. So, why am I making [i]yet another thread on this very same subject[/i], because I believe this perspective needs to be articulated. And Im egotistical enough to think that since I think so, that means it indeed does need to be brought to your attention as well. In Ivan's Academy thing going on right now, he has asked us a few questions about larger metagame concepts, and in my answer to one of those questions, I realized that one of the most fascinating things about the Cybernations community is one we don't even consciously acknowledge. And that is the political narrative. Sure we implicitly reference it here or there when discussing precedent or mud slinging or grudge holding, but we never out and out acknowledge that the actions we take on the OWF and in backrooms creates a story that we all follow and help shape as time goes on. This is the crux of what I'm getting at. So enough preamble. My point is, in short, that [b]since the end of the Karma War, with a few notable exceptions, the political narrative of Cybernations has been boring. Not because of a lack of originality, but because the style which has defined the political narrative in this post-Karma era is inherently dull.[/b] The reasons for this are many. But it can be split into two main problems, and from there further subdivided. If you think I missed any, feel free to say so, therefore, without further ado: [b]With one exception, the antagonistic personality's in the CN political game have been incredibly uninteresting. Undynamic. Unappealing. And worst of all: Reactionary.[/b] Here is my case in point: Has there been a villain in CN history that has ever truly been the match of Ivan Moldavi in sheer terms of infamy and legendaryness? Possibly Electron Sponge. Maybe some others, such as Prodigal_Chieftain, and others during the WUT and Continuum era. But after Karma? No. Not a single personality has risen up to take that spot at the very top. There have been numerous pretenders, sure, and one legitimate challenger, but no one has been able to match Ivan's sheer...Impact. You can make a case for certain players having the potential, to be sure. Archon comes to mind. And Archon is actually a very good example: In Karma, Archon was the face of bringing an end to the era of CN that Ivan Moldavi created. An end to the rule of the New Pacific Order. But what did he [i]do[/i] with that? Not much. He and his comrades in the Mushroom Kingdom secured their political position as the new Hegemony, and, with time, adapted a form of anti-villainy which was pretty funny for awhile, and elicits some chuckles now, but doesn't really engender the kind of passion that the Pacifican adversarialism inspired with the rest of the game. [i]They also acted as the power base for one alliance leader to try and act the role as the dynamic adversary up until the BiPolar War broke out, and did a good job of it as well, save a few exceptions.[/i] Honestly, I would say with some degree of confidence, that the short period of time in which Frostbite was in existence was the most interesting time in the post-Karma era. Between the New Sith Order acting as the inflammatory instigator, the STA acting as the straight man, and the New Polar Order acting as the wingman, the constant tension that Frostbite brought to CN politics made things very interesting. Unfortunately, the NSO's antagonism was only ever relevant by virtue of putting those linked to it in the treaty web into awkward positions. There was only so much we could do at the time, after all. But after the BiPolar war came to an end, so too, did the short-lived era of interesting antagonism. After all, with the [i]only real actors no longer being allowed to be on stage[/i], and things being left to the undynamic, we moved on to the true form of the post-Karma political narrative. Which was the second problem. [b]The pre-Karma CN political narrative, hereby referred to as "Ivan's era" for the sake of convenience, was largely a story of a bipolar political structure. Everything was either about being "With Pacifica" or "Against Pacifica", and that is how players defined their actions within the confines of the larger metagame. Post-Karma, the narrative shifted from one larger story, to a series of smaller vignettes which took shape as a series of smaller grudges and minor backbiting, with larger conflicts only truly arising as the result of political convenience. In short, smaller stories meant fewer people cared, since they weren't impacted by them. And there was no one true "larger story" for the individual lurker or alliance member to identify themselves with, thus leading to a general disinterest.[/b] People often deride the OWF as a cesspool and other nonsense. And yet people still flock to it. The question is "why", but the answer is simply, "because it's the stage". It's where all of the story comes together in a relatively convenient package. In older times, the OWF was the story, because people cared enough to make their grievances and trolls and leaks and other such things as public as possible for maximum effect. The Pacificans and co would haunt the OWF in order to stomp out political dissent and demonstrate their rhetorical superiority. There was passion, because they were interested, and cared about supporting whichever side they were on. It's like with sports. Even if it is only just a game, people often develop a rabid loyalty to the team of their choice. Only in this case the teams were one part of the political spectrum. I don't think I need to go off on a tangent explaining this, I'll take it for granted you all get what I mean. Post-Karma, we lost that. There was no longer a "big rival" that needed to be fought and crushed. Pacifica's adversarial spirit was completely crushed, since those that had been it's foundation in the first place had long since been driven from positions of relevance and influence within it's ranks. Honestly, The NPO as the boogeyman had been on autopilot for some time, which is why the entire trap that lead to the opening of the Karma war was so successful. The NPO played to type because thats the only way they knew how to act. But setting aside [i]yet another tangent[/i], the end of Pacifican villainy created a vacuum in the narrative. No Big Bad meant nothing to rally against. And the one best positioned to act in that capacity, Archon and his Mushroom Kingdom, refused to. It wouldn't be until some time later that even the stance of anti-villainy they adopted would even manifest itself. This lack of initiative (hurr) lead to the fragmentation of the political narrative, which manifested itself most strongly in the NpO-TOP rivalry. Now let's be serious here: Does anyone [i]not[/i] in those alliances really give a crap how long they've been going at it? I mean, setting aside you've got friends on one side or another, do you feel as if you have a personal stake in that fight? For the most part, which is the only relevant part, the answer is no. Which means that, when put into a larger scope, that rather than one big story that most people are interested in, we've got a thousand smaller stories that most people don't give a !@#$ about. Which leads us to the current war, which is the culmination of a thousand tiny grudges finally being acted on, and still no one really cares about the various motivations involved. We just see a really big war and are finally excited to see the GRL jump after months and months of buildup, rather than anything else related to the conflict at hand. Case in point: Over a month into the war, and the longest thread on this war is still only the initial declaration of War, by TOP, which only reached 33 (by my setup) pages before tapering off to the third page of the Alliance Announcements subforum. Compared to the Karma War, where we had multiple threads hitting the 60+ page (by my setup) range, and it's easy to see that we're just not that excited about the narrative of this war. And that's because we just don't have the passion we used to. I think I've already explained why I feel that is. Now then, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and make a claim: If this war really does mark the end of these thousand little grudges, then it will be the end of one of, if not both, the defining traits of the post-Karma narrative. By that token, we could say that [b]just as Karma marked the end of "Ivan's era" in CN history, this current war, or "Bye-Polar" or whatever war, marks the end of the "Post-Karma era" in the CN political narrative.[/b] What that means, or even if it really applies, remains to be seen. But I figure I might as well get out ahead of this so that way I can claim credit for seeing it coming first down the road. Royalties and stuff. Think of it as me buying up the CN historical narrative of Boardwalk along with Baltic and Mediterranean. Once I have Park Place you'll all be screwed in so many ways it won't even be funny. You people won't even be able to use the past tense on these forums without owing me money. Bahaha, genius. Setting aside [i]that totally necessary tangent[/i] once again, I'm gonna close by hoping that whatever happens next, it proves to be better written than whatever immediately preceded it. It shouldn't be too difficult. We just need someone who can actively generate controversy instead of react to it. Someone willing to piss people off in the interest of having fun, rather than just trying to stir up !@#$. And actually do so while being a competent alliance leader as well, who people can trust to act how he says he will. Even if he's a complete !@#$%^&, at least you know which way the wind will be blowing when he says hes going to come after you. It shouldn't be too difficult. We've got a lot of those guys lying around here, they just need to have the proper tools to work with, and everything will work out totally fine, and we'll be legitimately interested in the latest OWF shenanigans once more. So as my tl;dr: [b]Post-Karma reads like a Michael Bay script, the characters are flat and dull, and the only faintly interesting things are the massive explosions. A thousand random ass side stories does not make an interesting narrative. And finally, and most importantly, [i]thank God for Londo Mollari, the one and only interesting alliance leader to have ever played antagonist in nearly 4 years of anyone who has been in the ruling political structure post-Karma[/i][/b] Cheers, Londo! Get off your ass and raid the Knights of Ni! again or something, already!

Heh. A simple answer, Londo. All you need is a good narrative, and the people will flock to it in interest. It's all about the story. That's been the major failing of CN post-Karma. Frankly the story being built up by those with power has been pretty damn boring. Make things interesting enough in the OWF for the public to be swept up in it, and there won't be a need to worry about stagnation from a lack of access. It just needs to be interesting.