Dagrr

I have compiled nation strength stats for NPO front using UE's stat thread and lately the charts ingame since he stopped updating a few weeks ago. The graph is publicly visible here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AprwA4GlvgCxdDdfRFhKUzU4RjFTZDZLLXhzSnpmZEE&hl=en&authkey=COma5s4F A couple of notes- 1. The NS stats are 1/10000 scale. 2. I stopped tracking GOONS on the 26th of January when our allies hit. 3. Most of the fighting fell out of Umbrella's range after the first round of wars so I stopped tracking them then. 4. Nordreich entered on March 4th obviously. 5. A couple of upper level Legion nations engaged MK around March 20th, so I've begun tracking them. 6. I'll be trying to add new stuff and updating the rest of the strength stats on weekends. This is going to be NPO centric, so no I won't be tracking GOONS since our allies did a lot of the fighting there. Hope you enjoy. Try to keep the !@#$%*ing and revisionism in the designated OWF threads.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1301761143' post='2682885'] Sadly, many of our lower-tier nations have been facing formerly large NPO nations that possess a full complement of economic wonders, military wonders and nuclear weapons. We knew going in what the consequences would be, so this really comes as no surprise. If, however, the upper-tier of Pacifica would like to grace our own upper-tier with a few declarations of war, I'm sure we would be pleased to provide instruction on how to fight a war against more evenly-matched opponents. [/quote] If you wanted an even, fair match, you came to the wrong war.

This will no doubt be used as a CB, sometime in the year 2013.

Schatt had a pretty weak showing. Looks like Grub is getting to the Sweet 16.

Are you just being initially obtuse now? The war started with us over 16 million. That means it accounts for roughly 22% of our prewar strength. People lose NS during wars. The war is still going because 78% of our alliance's NS at war, with a large proportion of that being destroyed, isn't enough.

I like it. I don't think he was saying that. He is saying alliance leaders are responsible for preserving the community. Given that online communities are player driven, I don't have a problem with that.

Oh there were reasons. It just that the reasons defined in Archon's DoW were mainly about being butthurt for years, plus something about STA and NpO wanting to keep us out of the war altogether. People just aren't satisfied with that being the official "CB". The whole preemptive strike thesis put forward by Roq was made after the fact. The real reason we're still at war is because Doom House wants a near monopoly on top tier nations. In effect, DH wants to go ahead and put themselves in an advantageous position for the next war. The NpO-VE war this was allegedly connected to is over but someone forgot to tell the talking heads on the forum. There probably won't be another large war for a year or more with this strategy, but hey, they're playing for the longterm. Feel free to prove me wrong.

Yes, I've been a life long proponent of keeping FAN at war and have claimed that was good for the game. After all I was a member of Legion in 2007 so it goes without saying. You, of course, defended FAN at the time. Lets just do it all over again, for old times sake. I get it. Carry on.

Its just absolutely insane that anyone thinks that keeping 800 odd active players in CN at war because of some faux "you aren't damaged enough yet" argument is good for the game. Maybe its good for DoomHouse in the short term because they would destroy our upper tier, but everyone needs an adversary. Their prewar objective was met of denying our intervention on the NpO front, if that was ever a legitimate CB. Everything else is either butthurt or just trying to maximize their uppertier advantage for the next war. Which won't be for a year or more if our uppertier is destroyed. 100k nations don't grow on trees. The nation building and the political element are linked. Whatever, I'm done here. Yes, I mad.

And look at the results. One major war since Karma. The heaviest reps in the games history. We put them there so we can actually fight at some point in the future. Apparently your side just doesn't want to see that fight at anything resembling even odds. It's no where close to all of our NS being in peacemode. We lost 5 million NS in the first 10 days. Why do people like you still wonder why wars don't happen more often? Half of our NS destroyed in a successful "preemptive" strike for a war that is now over seems to be more than enough.

Ahem-"What's next? For the good of the game, NPO must lose 75% of it's NS so we can't have another war for a year? " Its for the good of the game folks.

Hey looks its Karma everyone! Maybe I'll go join Blackwater and OBR again to fight for freedom. Seriously, its 2011 now. Things change. I have no idea why you still be worried about someones actions during the NoCB war.

NpO is a separate war. If it was one and the same, this war would be over for reasons already mentioned. I find hilarious that we're still running with "Hopeless Coalition hasn't fought" when almost everyone on the NPO sector has suffered roughly 50% causalities. Save Umbrella of course. What's next? For the good of the game, NPO must lose 75% of it's NS so we can't have another war for a year?

Which alliances were hurt more? NPO's NS before the war was over 16 million. It is now under 8 million. MK's NS before the war was 11 million. It is now 6.5 million. Source: http://uevil.maybe.net/new/2011-01-24_R.png Plenty of NPO's uppertier were hit. They weren't all in peacemode. As far as the revisionism go, you're going to get that anyway. Hell the MK wiki calls the Unjust War a tactical victory. And I will be flabbergasted if the terms change on your end, barring this going on for a few more months. Preemption is moot, the war you "preempted" us for is over.

"Defeat NPO" is really...general. If you keep up with the preemption argument, we've already been defeated. The NS losses say DH "won", albeit MK and GOONS lost a lot too. Foreign policy wise, you still have all the cards. Given those limited objectives, the war should be over. Instead, you've opted for completely destroying our ability to make war in the upper tier for months and crippling our rebuilding procedures. Then you turn around, claim those terms are light and announce it on the OWF, resulting in a 150 page topic. I'm not sure if you just wanted to avoid the standard NPO historical revisionism that would have come with giving us white peace. Given the objectives you could have cited, before this war was extended past the NpO front's end, you're argument that you had won would have been strong. But no, you decided to press so now there's no way you could back down from the original terms offered without being seen as "losing", at least in a PR sense. The end result is this war which is probably going to last for months and kill off lots of bored players, primarily on our side, but I expect it will have a toll on yours as well. That is my problem with DH's stance.

Then please, tell us all what the rest of Doom House's objectives in this war are. You would know.

Oh pardon me. Here I was thinking that the purpose of alliances and blocs was to put forth a coherent messages. I understand that individual members have different views, but DH's own myriad governments can't seem to get their story straight. Roq was running around like a chicken with its head cut off for weeks trying to prove that it was a preemptive attack and that alone was sufficient justification. Now we're getting the whole "NPO provoked this months beforehand" and "NPO wouldn't been in this position if their FA didn't suck" treatment.

Yeah I've noticed the DH doublethink as well. They can't seem to agree on what the objective of all this is.* Roq seemed to believe pretty strongly in the preemption thing. *Other than the ~terms~ of course.

This is the part where Roq shows up and talks about how this was a preemptive attack to ensure NPO did not intervene in the VE-Polaris dispute. But given that goal has already been achieved, we of course have to move on to what DoomHouse's real objective is.

Wow Kansas didn't just lose...they got !@#$@#$ bent over. Hail our VCU overlords!

Deal with it?

Cool. We could do a NO U circle now, but eh, we've already said everything worth saying here.

He's lost so much credibility so he gets his own thread. Seriously, I went HoT for WPE. Can you cut this out till the bracket plays out please?

The luxury of being on your side is that you'll never have to worry about being being curbstomped. Doing all the "tactical" stuff you want won't have any long term consequences. We pull our big nations out, we expend our assets on a war that's already been decided, with absolutely no guarantee that we won't be hit again as soon as we become a "threat." This war isn't worth sacrificing strategic resources on. They aren't coming out. You should "deal with it." Whoever is in power will complain about peacemode. This has all happened before and will happen again.

If you declare on someone based on the possibility of their being a threat to the future, why would you let them rebuild to a position where they would become a threat? Inb4 a bunch of "reallys" and "in all probabilities." If you think that wasn't part of why DH declared, read Archon's DoW again.